Klei pls fix this rework

[Booklover]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Except it WOULD be too much- If Abigail spawned at 600hp like I’ve seen a lot of people want.... 

What would even be the use of the Sisturn to help her grow stronger? 

AND even more importantly.. since Abigails Flower now never leaves Wendy’s Inventory... all you would have to do is spam your 600hp Abigail over and over and over again every time she dies to Easily kill the toughest creature in the game.

IF Klei brought Abby’s Health Up.. the flower would need to go on a Summon Cooldown, or Worse.. wilt away into petals upon Abigails dying so you have to actually go Commune with Pipspook, get Mourning Glory and Nightmare Fuel to craft A new Abigail Flower.

 

I believe this was a misunderstanding as we were talking about the -8 damage Abigail gets when she's fighting more than 1 mob, not removing her death penalty. I'm perfectly fine with Abigail reverting back to Level 1 when she dies: That's your problem since you can't manage/unsummon her properly. Losing damage just because she tried to 1v2 however, is just the Devs' way of not letting Abigail deal high damage to multiple mobs which was unreasonable as pre-rework Abigail was able to deal 40 damage to every mob without penalty.

[Kaw_]

2 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

2 days since wendy being reworked and instead of learning how to play her propperly better ask for buffs

lets make this game a faceroll like others

We all like the new Wendy very much and the game has enough resources to test and see how to make the most of the character. Here are requests only for what can be improved. It's not like nobody has practiced or done tests. We are not trying to change small things for no reason.

5 hours ago, Vasz_ said:

Agreed 100%. I love Wendy, but Willow is far superior as it stands. The elixirs are very underwhelming and everything Abigail does, Bernie does better, except for crowd control. Even if Abigail was as good as Bernie, there's the fact that Willow has more upsides and little to no downsides. There's a large disconnect between how impactful the damage penalty is versus how useful Abigail can be and it's much more noticeable when compared to Willow. It feels like Klei is trying to break even with Wendy's upsides and downsides, while every other character (not you Wes) ends up with a net positive. That said, I believe Klei is more than competent to correct this, as evidenced by the past reworks and updates in general.

An immense pleasure to read this, I appreciate all the support!

[Terra B Welch]

40 minutes ago, Booklover said:

I believe this was a misunderstanding as we were talking about the -8 damage Abigail gets when she's fighting more than 1 mob, not removing her death penalty. I'm perfectly fine with Abigail reverting back to Level 1 when she dies: That's your problem since you can't manage/unsummon her properly. Losing damage just because she tried to 1v2 however, is just the Devs' way of not letting Abigail deal high damage to multiple mobs which was unreasonable as pre-rework Abigail was able to deal 40 damage to every mob without penalty.

Exactly, the 1v2 damage is a bit silly, suddenly -8 damage because one extra enemy joins the fight.

The only elixir I've really used so far was the unyielding draught, which I only found one real use for which was frog rain, with one of those I was able to clean up leftover frogs from frog rain after they killed a moosegoose and her kids.

Apart from that, the lower damage meant I had to get in and help for a bit of it.

But the splumonkey thing was what really got me though, kinda silly that if I wanted abigail to actually be efficient at splumonkey killing again I'd have to be near death and have one of those damage elixirs on her, the former as I stated before, not something you'd want to do in the ruins.

Hell prior to this damage nerf, abigail could 1v1 a depth worm without wendy aiding(which was nice as it meant less syncing during worm attacks with 3-4 worms), though it ends up being a close fight, any more then 1 and she'd fall.

Now post damage nerf I don't think she could 1v1 a depth worm now.

But anywho, heres to hoping abigail gets a little boost to her effectiveness again, right now it just seems it's "Almost kill youself for old night abigail damage".

[Desblat]

I am sure Klei will consider complains and do some tweaks, like they did for Woodie refresh.

[Sweaper]

8 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

They kept on nerfing and messing with Woodie in DST, and decided to just split all the good qualities of one form into 3 forms that are nothing compared to the sum of their parts, which is the classic Werebeaver.

Not that slower, I can still attack as much as a normal character without them using speed modifiers item on innate stats before having to kite. And he can tank if you're feeling lazy.

8 hours ago, Sunset Skye said:

How much have you played Woodie in DS recently?
- He drops literally everything in his inventory every time he transforms.
- He gets put to low stats and skips up to a full day whenever he transforms back to human.
- He has to deal with being forced into those last two things twice in a row every 16 days.
- When farming wood, he has to constantly eat the thing he's farming in order to continue farming that thing.
- He has a constant "health" drain in the form of the log meter if you try to fight as the Werebeaver..
- When farming wood, you have to use the mouse rather than spacebar or else the Werebeaver will instantly scarf down one log because eating those is also a spacebar action. I have somehow never seen anyone complain about this.
- He doesn't even go back to the idle animation after you gnaw something, he just stands completely still. I have never seen anyone mention or bug report this.
- If you let the log meter run down to 0 and then gnaw literally anything, you're stuck as the Werebeaver with godmode until you relog. Somehow, despite DS Woodie apparently being amazing and people loving to play him, I never once heard about this incredibly and absolutely broken bug until stumbling on it myself while messing around.

Like, if I'm being completely honest, I would say most anyone who talks about DS Werebeaver has not played Woodie in DS in years if at all, because people just call him generically "powerful" or a "combat god" or whatever but nobody actually talks about it in the context of how he is in real gameplay, or anything about said gameplay outside of the 2 minutes it takes to kill a Deerclops.

The way you say it, it makes Woodie look bad, yes if not prepared you'll die, that was something everyone used to talk about Woodie back in time.

Ir order of what you said:

-Plant your trees near base, so you drop everything there

-Go back to your base, vanilla DS food doesn't spoil to get your honey hams and candy ready on a few crockpots and in RoG you can just cook in the day you transform. Skipping days in DS is the best thing, speeds up a lot of respawns, Woodie gets it for really cheap while everyone else has to build tents. Spam skip was fun.

-Live through your first full moon as beaver either cutting trees, better yet killing the werepigs from your farm or do nothing, that way you'll skip the second full moon,

-Turn into beaver, farm a forest. He is the best at farming trees in DS, I don't see where the downside is here.

-Fight in a forest or near where you replant/drop your trees/logs.

-Burn the trunks, but yes it's a pain to have to either time spacebar or click (there are mods)

-Use it for Ruins

-One thing you didn't mention, adventure mode. Explore as beaver, walking on the coast until you ended up where you started, now you have the entire outline and a few key items mapped for you, making adventure mode a joke.

You'll be swimming in logs if you know what you're doing, plus the bug, pressing F and space bar was never so easy. Other than Deer, Ruins are still a thing and Beaver is a no brainer in there, in RoG you have Dfly and without a proper setup to make her stuck you will struggle while someone just put a stone on the F key and is making coffee irl.

_______________

Back to Wendy, her elixirs right now are only good for clearing hound waves from multiple people in the late game and maybe frog rain. Haven't tested for splumonkeys but I'm guessing either the revenge or shield is nice there. Bunnyman village will still wreck Abigail though, not sure if when she has 600hp and some potion she can clear them.

[YumoS]

i personally think the best thing about abigail was her aoe attack against groups of monsters. other than that she was useless against many other things. she died quickly at boss fights. now i think the only thing that got worse is that the damage dropped to 12. buffing the aoe attack a bit would make her great and tweaking the elixirs a bit by playtesting her more would make her a pretty balanced character.

[Kaw_]

6 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

I personally would want the battle elixers to last longer like half a day

same as warlys food

 

Yes, comparing the warly foods, the effects of it besides being short-lived, do not stack. Improving this elixir issue would be of great help too.

9 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

Not that slower, I can still attack as much as a normal character without them using speed modifiers item on innate stats before having to kite. And he can tank if you're feeling lazy.

The way you say it, it makes Woodie look bad, yes if not prepared you'll die, that was something everyone used to talk about Woodie back in time.

Ir order of what you said:

-Plant your trees near base, so you drop everything there

-Go back to your base, vanilla DS doesn't spoil to get your honey hams and candy ready on a few crockpots and in RoG you can just cook in the day you transform. Skipping days in DS is the best thing, speeds up a lot of respawns, Woodie gets it for really cheap while everyone else has to build tents. Spam skip was fun.

-Live through your first full moon as beaver, the second you'll skip.

-Turn into beaver, farm a forest. He is the best at farming trees in DS, I don't see where the downside is here.

-Fight in a forest or near where you replant/drop your trees/logs.

-Burn the trunks, but yes it's a pain to have to either time spacebar or click (there are mods)

-Use it for Ruins

-One thing you didn't mention, adventure mode. Explore as beaver, walking on the coast until you ended up where you started, now you have the entire outline and a few key items mapped for you making adventure mode a joke.

You'll be swimming in logs if you know what you're doing, plus the bug, pressing F and space bar was never so easy. Other than Deer, Ruins are still a thing and Beaver is a no brainer in there, in RoG you have Dfly and without a proper setup to make her stuck you will struggle while someone just put a stone on the F key and is making coffee irl.

_______________

Back to Wendy, her elixirs right now are only good for clearing hound waves from multiple people in the late game and maybe frog rain. Haven't tested for splumonkeys but I'm guessing either the revenge or shield is nice there. Bunnyman village will still wreck Abigail though, not sure if when she has 600hp and some potion she can clear them.

She does can clean, but you need to have a very low HP and using the Elixir of thorns. As i said, I did several tests against hordes of frogs, hounds and even fights against unique monsters, but the effect of the shield had no effect on her life. She always took the same amount of damage for nothing. Comparing the same fights with the elixir of thorns, she killed all enemies much faster, in addition to receiving less damage, since death was faster, but you had no participation, the gameplay became "just me or you do" as i'm saying. Because with the amount of health you need to be so that she has any significance in this current situation sacrifices your participation in the game.

[Sweaper]

From my tests

Wendy at full hp
Abigail at 150hp
10 frogs - 38hp remaining for Abigail
20 frogs - 2hp, 1 death (killed the remaining on the second spawn right after death), 38hp, 46hp, 2hp, 33hp

~ spiders - she doesn't care as always

10 hounds - dead, dead, dead

___________________

Wendy at 50%/75hp (Maxwell range, Wendy is still pretty good for fighting along Abigail)
Abigail at 150hp

20 frogs - 106hp, 86hp
40 frogs - 86hp
50 frogs - 39hp, 69hp,
60 frogs - ded (forgot to make her aggro mode, probably kept trying to reach wendy while being pushed away), 29, 29, 9hp

10 hounds - dead, dead, dead (many still alive)
10 hounds +shield - dead (3 left alive), 61hp, 60hp, dead (3 left), 21hp
10 hounds +revenge - 18hp, 60hp, ded (2 left), 5hp, 78hp
10 hounds +damage - 21hp, ded (3 left), ded (1 left), 60hp
10 hounds +speed (why even test it) -  ded, ded (many still alive)

___________________

She will struggle against 1-3 hounds leftovers since she will not block their damage as effective as when it's 10. With 600hp she will definitely do a lot better, the longer she survives, the longer she gets to block damage and do damage. But I'm not going to bother waiting for 600hp whenever she reaches the limit on number of mobs and dies. Giving HP potion right before the mob gang up on her will make her easily kill all of the above with ease, would be a tad too OP if it weren't for the 4 morning glory required to craft.

If Wendy were at 20~30hp Abigail would probably avoid the deaths where only a few enemies survived while Wendy is still a lot of hits away from dying with a helmet. So, Abigail is definitely better than the old one when it comes to multiple enemies as long as she is at 600hp and Wendy is at around 50% hp, the natural shield makes up for the damage she lost when it comes to 10+ mobs and you should help her when there is a few leftovers otherwise Abigail will lose a lot of unnecessary HP, being able to use Abigail for the entire day is the best thing from the rework in my opinion, before there was no way she could deal with hounds on her own in day and maybe even in the evening.

[CremeLover]

29 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

snip

If you're testing her using console, try this command.

Quote

AllPlayers[number].components.ghostlybond:SetBondLevel(3)

Should set her up to 600 health right away.

[Kaw_]

50 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

From my tests

Wendy at full hp
Abigail at 150hp
10 frogs - 38hp remaining for Abigail
20 frogs - 2hp, 1 death (killed the remaining on the second spawn right after death), 38hp, 46hp, 2hp, 33hp

~ spiders - she doesn't care as always

10 hounds - dead, dead, dead

___________________

Wendy at 50%/75hp (Maxwell range, Wendy is still pretty good for fighting along Abigail)
Abigail at 150hp

20 frogs - 106hp, 86hp
40 frogs - 86hp
50 frogs - 39hp, 69hp,
60 frogs - ded (forgot to make her aggro mode, probably kept trying to reach wendy while being pushed away), 29, 29, 9hp

10 hounds - dead, dead, dead (many still alive)
10 hounds +shield - dead (3 left alive), 61hp, 60hp, dead (3 left), 21hp
10 hounds +revenge - 18hp, 60hp, ded (2 left), 5hp, 78hp
10 hounds +damage - 21hp, ded (3 left), ded (1 left), 60hp
10 hounds +speed (why even test it) -  ded, ded (many still alive)

___________________

She will struggle against 1-3 hounds leftovers since she will not block their damage as effective as when it's 10. With 600hp she will definitely do a lot better, the longer she survives, the longer she gets to block damage and do damage. But I'm not going to bother waiting for 600hp whenever she reaches the limit on number of mobs and dies. Giving HP potion right before the mob gang up on her will make her easily kill all of the above with ease, would be a tad too OP if it weren't for the 4 morning glory required to craft.

If Wendy were at 20~30hp Abigail would probably avoid the deaths where only a few enemies survived while Wendy is still a lot of hits away from dying with a helmet. So, Abigail is definitely better than the old one when it comes to multiple enemies as long as she is at 600hp and Wendy is at around 50% hp, the natural shield makes up for the damage she lost when it comes to 10+ mobs and you should help her when there is a few leftovers otherwise Abigail will lose a lot of unnecessary HP, being able to use Abigail for the entire day is the best thing from the rework in my opinion, before there was no way she could deal with hounds on her own in day and maybe even in the evening.

If at least the penalty is removed as many expect, it will be better to deal with unnecessary hassles that did not exist before and do not need to. Thank you for the information.

[Toros]

Some of you claim to have tested the rework but with a sisturn with 4 flower petals Abi goes from new to fully upgraded in less than a day.  Sisturns are cheap to make and work server-wide.

You should never need Abi to fight at less than 600 max hp, so it doesn’t make sense to test her at less than that.

In my experience Abi can easily take on 10 hounds starting from 600 hp.

Also, many of you fundamentally don’t understand how Abi and Wendy are supposed to work.  They’re meant to fight together as a team, not have Wendy watch Abi do all the work.

[Mike23Ua]

11 minutes ago, Toros said:

Some of you claim to have tested the rework but with a sisturn with 4 flower petals Abi goes from new to fully upgraded in less than a day.  Sisturns are cheap to make and work server-wide.

You should never need Abi to fight at less than 600 max hp, so it doesn’t make sense to test her at less than that.

In my experience Abi can easily take on 10 hounds starting from 600 hp.

Also, many of you fundamentally don’t understand how Abi and Wendy are supposed to work.  They’re meant to fight together as a team, not have Wendy watch Abi do all the work.

Thank You.. Abigail Stun Locks an Enemy getting its Attention, Wendy can help Smack it with a Spear.

The ONLY bad thing about that is if you kill the enemy and are still spamming the punch button, you smack Abigail killing her in 1 Hit. Which.. on Xbox One- Resets her health to 150 like she had died in battle.

(pretty sure its a bug.. and I’m not sure if it happens 100% every time.)

Ive also seen Abigails Flower not blossoming or her grow any stronger even with Active Sisturns.. could be a bug- I dunno... I just know I had a Server full of Wendy players and at least 2 of them were complaining that their Abigail wouldn’t level up.

(You’ll see flower petals on the edges of your screen and Wendy will make a quote about Abby brightening up when she levels up)

[QuartzBeam]

The "AoE penalty" is seriously overstated. Abigail's base AoE damage is still higher than it was before (12 vs. 10) and her new shield allows her to tank a LOT of attacks when fighting crowds. That she deals 8 more damage/second vs. single targets is basically the game throwing you a bone for using Abigail for a type of combat she has always been ill-suited to.

Her "unimpressive" 12 AoE damage/second is enough to tank 10 hounds without any help and single-handed decimate a frog rain. Not to mention that 8 point difference does not scale with Wendy's health, so it becomes increasingly irrelevant the less health Wendy has. (60 vs 52 isn't nearly as big of a difference as 20 vs. 12)

To be sure, I wouldn't mind if her AoE damage got buffed to 20, but I don't think it's necessary. At least, provided they improve the scaling of the bonus damage she gets as Wendy loses health.

[Toros]

2 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said:

The "AoE penalty" is seriously overstated. Abigail's base AoE damage is still higher than it was before (12 vs. 10) and her new shield allows her to tank a LOT of attacks when fighting crowds. That she deals 8 more damage/second vs. single targets is basically the game throwing you a bone for using Abigail for a type of combat she has always been ill-suited to.

Her "unimpressive" 12 AoE damage/second is enough to tank 10 hounds without any help and single-handed decimate a frog rain. Not to mention that 8 point difference does not scale with Wendy's health, so it becomes increasingly irrelevant the less health Wendy has. (60 vs 52 isn't nearly as big of a difference as 20 vs. 12)

To be sure, I wouldn't mind if her AoE damage got buffed to 20, but I don't think it's necessary. At least, provided they improve the scaling of the bonus damage she gets as Wendy loses health.

I agree with all of this.

 

I’m not saying that there can’t still be quality of life tweaks, but Abi is an easy to use and very powerful tool that more than makes up for her only downside being 25% less damage.  Wendy is so much better than before and there’s way too much gloom and doom about “nerfs”.

[fimmatek]

15 minutes ago, Toros said:

Also, many of you fundamentally don’t understand how Abi and Wendy are supposed to work.  They’re meant to fight together as a team, not have Wendy watch Abi do all the work.

This. If played together well, Abigail (the old one) can survive a lot more enemies and Wendy can kill tons of monsters. The problem now (after rework) is that either Abigail has very little damage (especially compared to the old night or cave damage, which one could count on and use easily), or Wendy has very low health, in which case she's at high danger of dying.

[Zheos]

My main problem is numbers. Abigail dealing damage based on your missing health isn't good design because no player wants to walk around with low HP. Low Sanity doesn't end the game instantly when you're hit and even 0 hunger gives you time to find food. Being low on health might've been a fun design in another game, but for this one I prefer to leave my stats high thank you. The time = stronger mechanic is nice and rewards players that keep Abigail alive, so if they tied her damage to her levels instead of Wendy's HP I think it would be nice, even if they had to make so Abigail needs longer to hit the next level (say 2 days after summon for lv2, 3 days for lv3) which would also make you use the Sisturn as more than just a sanity station, by using it to speed up Abigail's growth if you couldn't call her back and she died during a fight. Damage doesn't even need to be that high, I could accept 10~20~40 for each level like before (without a penalty for multiple enemies). Or, and I say this purely so I can get a bit more on my plate, ~50 damage for the final level so she can go up against Woodie's moose form.

I quite like the rework except for this: on/off button, storing her away, the skins.. I just have issues with the numbers

[hyiltiz]

Abigail should be able to upgrade indefinitely with diminishing returns, something like: n more days to upgrade from n-1 level, and +sqrt(n) damage and health increase for each level.

[ShyRo-Zyerenzy]

it's not like wendy its a tier S to get that many dmg downsides anyways, i can go woodie and wolfgang and laugh. but if you want to exactly keep it this way, i want to hit the max dmg cap at 50hp , or tie the dmg to lower sanity. just understand that not everyone chooses to play alone in ur own server at 0 ping to have fun with the increased dmg mechanic. and lag, lag is always there.

(something we had for free waiting at dusk or night without having that risk, so we reach the question : fun design?- like fun enough that changes and makes it a strat? ( aka perfect counter to frog rain, the aoe crowd control queen? or i go back to just old playstyle cuz the stats are weak and use it against the same mobs. do i need the potions? or i just play like before ignoring it all )

[Mike23Ua]

We are playing the Beta version of Don’t Starve Together- And Therefore.. we can only judge how Wendy and Abigail play based off content already in the game, Meanwhile Klei is probably as we speak dead center of the She Sells Seashells update and they are fully aware of what they want the “End Game” for DST to Be...

Has anyone stopped to think that maybe they reduced Abigails damage when fighting more and more enemies because maybe just maybe the final boss fight with “Them” will involve endlessly spawning enemies in addition to the main boss him or her or it self????

Could you imagine how OP and completely broken Abigail would be if she got a +1 Damage modifier in that Situation?

Klei knows what’s in store for us.. all WE can ever do is guess.

Having said that I would absolutely LOVE for potions to last a little longer, and to be able to stack on top of each other (if I go through the trouble of gathering all the Mourning Glory and crafting Materials to make Abigail OP please let her BE OP..)

I would also love more interaction with the Sisturn... Placing normal flowers in it currently speeds up Abby flower bloom time and provides a small Sanity Aurora when standing near Sisturn.

I want to put Evil Flower in it to Lose Sanity and maybe increase Abigail Damage Without Wendy needing to be low on health.

Why would I want to LOSE Sanity you ask? I need Mourning Glory and Nightmare Fuel to craft all my lovely Abigail Flower skins I just bought.

Finally I want to be able to store Wendy’s most precious flower resource into Sisturn for an Unknown and hopefully Overpowered Effect- Mourning Glory. (I’ll leave this one entirely up to Klei to decide what it should do..)

Back to Ectoherbology- I want one final really good potion added to the Tab, except This potion requires GEMS in its crafting Recipe.

Winona’s Gem-Er-Rator runs off Gems... so it’s not so far fetched to think that Abigails most powerful potion would need them in its crafting. 

[hyiltiz]

Oh, tie it to ping please: the more ping you have the stronger Abigail becomes to protect you from lags.

This would decrease significantly the number of people blaming "lag" right after they die Kappa

[CremeLover]

22 minutes ago, Toros said:

Also, many of you fundamentally don’t understand how Abi and Wendy are supposed to work.  They’re meant to fight together as a team, not have Wendy watch Abi do all the work.

Knowing when Abigail needs help and when she can take care of things by herself is also part of playing Wendy.

12 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said:

The "AoE penalty" is seriously overstated.

7 minutes ago, Toros said:

I’m not saying that there can’t still be quality of life tweaks, but Abi is an easy to use and very powerful tool that more than makes up for her only downside being 25% less damage.

You guys don't get it, is not only about damage nerfs. The shield does compensate the damage when when taking on multiple enemies simultaneously, and letting her kill large crowd with more health remaining (though not more efficiently, as she takes longer now). Abigail is now worse for taking on single foes, which was quite useful for worms, clockworks and other cave dwellers. Summon rushing is also gone as a tradeoff for the manageament mechanics. Sanity stations are a thing of the past and were replaced for a more cost-effective yet let effective version that only heals sanity, and cannot decrease it. Also underwhelming elixirs. The rework slightly improved one of her strong areas while nerfing every other strong thing she had going for her.

There is also another issue. As she now takes longer on large crowds, making woodie more efficient, and her summon is harder to heal than bernie, is less tanky and deals less damage. She migth end up displaced from her exclusive nitche role the same way Woodie was displaced from his by Maxwell long ago. Is not that she's bad, is that other characters can do what she's supposed to excel at but better.

 

[Minitte]

I think the damage is fine. What I think about some of the replys and my imagination of replys:

Wendy does less dps at night than before - I think a lot of players don't want to fight at night anyways.

she is weaker in the caves now - idk. i still havn't really done the ruins stuff yet because its spooky lol.

10/20/40 flat damage leveling - I think this will make abigail damage so op

Current HP damage scaling - At 50%(75hp) I think abigail does like 20 damage aoe which is pretty nice. 75 hp isn't bad as long you have armor and healing.

Compared to woodie, she does less damage - Doesn't Woodie require stat maintenance every time he wants to run over mobs?

She does less dps than other characters - Wendy have a reliable aoe dps and pays with single target dps. Having both for basically free is op.

Summon rush doesn't work now - I think that was a degenerate strategy. The flowers were suppose to all reset on death anyways.

Sanity machine - Requires bee queen hat right? A lot of people can't kill bee queen anyways. having more than 8 sanity per min is a lot anyways.

Bernie is a better summon - Bernie has a single target dps of 25. Abigail's aoe dps (12 * n) is much better right?

Bernie can tank better. - Yea but thats bernie's role basicly. If we make abigail equally as tanky then thats op.

 

[Mysterious box]

I feel like abigail's worth is being undersold abit vs bernie yes Bernie always does 50 damage but he's also always accompanied by shadow creatures effectively lowering his survivability not to mention his lack of a aoe attack abigail's spread damage is always going to be higher than his and she will always output more damage than him in a situation with hordes. Another point not  being mentioned is while Bernie can be healed by kits they do not stack and require his death or him turning back to be used where as Abigail can be healed mid combat effectively making her survivability much higher.

While I do believe making her base damage 20 would be nice I don't get where the idea she's worse than Bernie comes from.

 

Edit: honestly after reading some other comments I'm even starting to thing 20 base might but too high high for full hp mobbing

[Toros]

16 minutes ago, CremeLover said:

Knowing when Abigail needs help and when she can take care of things by herself is also part of playing Wendy.

You guys don't get it, is not only about damage nerfs. The shield does compensate the damage when when taking on multiple enemies simultaneously, and letting her kill large crowd with more health remaining (though not more efficiently, as she takes longer now). Abigail is now worse for taking on single foes, which was quite useful for worms, clockworks and other cave dwellers. Summon rushing is also gone as a tradeoff for the manageament mechanics. Sanity stations are a thing of the past and were replaced for a more cost-effective yet let effective version that only heals sanity, and cannot decrease it. Also underwhelming elixirs. The rework slightly improved one of her strong areas while nerfing every other strong thing she had going for her.

There is also another issue. As she now takes longer on large crowds, making woodie more efficient, and her summon is harder to heal than bernie, is less tanky and deals less damage. She migth end up displaced from her exclusive nitche role the same way Woodie was displaced from his by Maxwell long ago. Is not that she's bad, is that other characters can do what she's supposed to excel at but better.

 

Most of this is misleading or straight up false.

Abi is *not* more difficult to heal than Bernie as you can apply elixers directly to her flower instead of having to pick up broken bernie and sew him.

Abi attacks faster than Bernie and hits more than one target.

Weremoose can also kill spiders/bees/splumonkies but will have to pay a much higher sanity cost, health cost, hunger cost.  Saying it’s less efficient than Abi is straight up nonsense.  Faster, maybe.  Efficient, no.

Bernie is also single target whereas Abi attacks more frequently, doesn’t pause to taunt, and hits in an aoe.  Literally comparing apples to oranges.  Bernie also doesn’t heal on his own.

I could keep going but why?  Nothing in your post was a good, true argument.

[QuartzBeam]

39 minutes ago, Zheos said:

The time = stronger mechanic is nice and rewards players that keep Abigail alive

All you gotta do to keep Abigail alive is unsummon her at the first sign of danger and resummon her once it's passed. You're basically suggesting free damage buffs, which would in turn make Abigail even easier to keep alive.

And she's already pretty powerful with 12 damage. At ~40 damage/second, Abigail can tank a herd of at least 6 beefalos with minimal if not zero help. And unlike the Weremoose, she is available 24/7 and for free.