Klei pls fix this rework

[Scrimbles]

10 minutes ago, Sunset Skye said:

How much have you played Woodie in DS recently?
- He drops literally everything in his inventory every time he transforms.
- He gets put to low stats and skips up to a full day whenever he transforms back to human.
- He has to deal with being forced into those last two things twice in a row every 16 days.
- When farming wood, he has to constantly eat the thing he's farming in order to continue farming that thing.
- He has a constant "health" drain in the form of the log meter if you try to fight as the Werebeaver..
- When farming wood, you have to use the mouse rather than spacebar or else the Werebeaver will instantly scarf down one log because eating those is also a spacebar action. I have somehow never seen anyone complain about this.
- He doesn't even go back to the idle animation after you gnaw something, he just stands completely still. I have never seen anyone mention or bug report this.
- If you let the log meter run down to 0 and then gnaw literally anything, you're stuck as the Werebeaver with godmode until you relog. Somehow, despite DS Woodie apparently being amazing and people loving to play him, I never once heard about this incredibly and absolutely broken bug until stumbling on it myself while messing around.

Like, if I'm being completely honest, I would say most anyone who talks about DS Werebeaver has not played Woodie in DS in years if at all, because people just call him generically "powerful" or a "combat god" or whatever but nobody actually talks about it in the context of how he is in real gameplay, or anything about said gameplay outside of the 2 minutes it takes to kill a Deerclops.

"Im making an assumption of you to prove that I'm right"

Woodie's main downside was that he is a resource hog, he is incredibly powerful when you put the proper time and effort in, but the costs can be great.

Knowing how to set up areas with lots of wood to gnaw on to keep your health up in a fight saves you a lot off the hassle of preparing armor, weapons, foods, etc.

That resource hog concept must have been a sticking point for Klei when it comes to multiplayer, so they completely removed it and replaced it with a low cost, low power solution.

Like, sure, now hes not eating everyones resources, but he feels FAR worse for experienced players.

He had actual flaws that you had to play around, every character should, and his were acceptable for the level of power he could bring.

Also bugs and exploits arent a fair argument point.

[Kaw_]

1 minute ago, Owlrus98 said:

As much as I wish it weren't true, right now it really kinda feels like Wendy is now a worse Willow but with dmg reduction and a less useful bernie as it stands.

I'm sure Klei will address any concerns in a future patch later, if needed; they have always been good to the community, and after the Woodie rework (with all its insane backlash) they demonstrated that profusely.

I'm glad to read that. Thank you for your support! We are all hopeful with a change in her current situation.

[Toros]

12 minutes ago, Owlrus98 said:

As much as I wish it weren't true, right now it really kinda feels like Wendy is now a worse Willow but with dmg reduction and a less useful bernie as it stands.

I'm sure Klei will address any concerns in a future patch later, if needed; they have always been good to the community, and after the Woodie rework (with all its insane backlash) they demonstrated that profusely.

If you think Wendy currently isn’t way, way better than Willow I don’t think you’re able to effectively estimate their  strength.

Willow isn’t bad, but post rework Wendy is much better.

[Mike23Ua]

Guys- I killed Deerclops with Abigail, she doesn’t need higher health or Damage, trust me she’s fine as Is.. Build two Sisturns, fill them with flower petals what would have normally taken you 3-4 days and having to chase down and kill something- Now fully blooms your flower in about a day. 

When Abigail Dies.. your not rushing to collect her dropped flower or crafting More flowers... Really with this Rework Abigails Flower should never even have to leave Wendy’s Inventory.

When she dies, your still holding the flower and can simply wait for it (very quickly) fully re-Bloom again. 

No murdering Rabbits, no chasing bees, no flower cycling.. 

Wendy is more of a “Ghost Whisperer” Character now. And A Klei Dev stated earlier in a different thread that Abigail Will NEVER be able to be good at 1v1 as much as Bernie.

So yeah wanting like 1000hp on Abby Ain’t gonna happen.

Though stacked Elixer power might..

[Kaw_]

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Guys- I killed Deerclops with Abigail, she doesn’t need higher health or Damage, trust me she’s fine as Is.. Build two Sisturns, fill them with flower petals what would have normally taken you 3-4 days and having to chase down and kill something- Now fully blooms your flower in about a day. 

When Abigail Dies.. your not rushing to collect her dropped flower or crafting More flowers... Really with this Rework Abigails Flower should never even have to leave Wendy’s Inventory.

When she dies, your still holding the flower and can simply wait for it (very quickly) fully re-Bloom again. 

No murdering Rabbits, no chasing bees, no flower cycling.. 

Wendy is more of a “Ghost Whisperer” Character now. And A Klei Dev stated earlier in a different thread that Abigail Will NEVER be able to be good at 1v1 as much as Bernie.

So yeah wanting like 1000hp on Abby Ain’t gonna happen.

The point is that nobody wants that. Even if the damage is not increased, that penalty is unnecessary. Killing Bosses is not the focus of the pair and even if you did it is not as if it were impossible. All we want is the removal of the penalty and an improvement in the Elixir, it’s not asking too much, I left everything well explained in the topic. No one is asking for tons of damage or life, just improving what has already been done.

[Mike23Ua]

8 minutes ago, Toriih said:

The point is that nobody wants that. Even if the damage is not increased, that penalty is unnecessary. Killing Bosses is not the focus of the pair and even if you did it is not as if it were impossible. All we want is the removal of the penalty and an improvement in the Elixir, it’s not asking too much, I left everything well explained in the topic. No one is asking for tons of damage or life, just improving what has already been done.

Except it WOULD be too much- If Abigail spawned at 600hp like I’ve seen a lot of people want.... 

What would even be the use of the Sisturn to help her grow stronger? 

AND even more importantly.. since Abigails Flower now never leaves Wendy’s Inventory... all you would have to do is spam your 600hp Abigail over and over and over again every time she dies to Easily kill the toughest creature in the game.

IF Klei brought Abby’s Health Up.. the flower would need to go on a Summon Cooldown, or Worse.. wilt away into petals upon Abigails dying so you have to actually go Commune with Pipspook, get Mourning Glory and Nightmare Fuel to craft A new Abigail Flower.

 

[Kaw_]

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Except it WOULD be too much- If Abigail spawned at 600hp like I’ve seen a lot of people want.... 

What would even be the use of the Sisturn to help her grow stronger? 

AND even more importantly.. since Abigails Flower now never leaves Wendy’s Inventory... all you would have to do is spam your 600hp Abigail over and over and over again every time she dies to Easily kill the toughest creature in the game.

IF Klei brought Abby’s Health Up.. the flower would need to go on a Summon Cooldown, or Worse.. wilt away into petals upon Abigails dying so you have to actually go Commune with Pipspook, get Mourning Glory and Nightmare Fuel to craft A new Abigail Flower.

 

I don't know what other people want like you're saying but focus on this topic here. Everything we want here is well listed, with no relation to these other subjects. Read carefully what I wrote and what many others here said and agreed, there is nothing so drastic like that.

[Spaartan]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Except it WOULD be too much- If Abigail spawned at 600hp like I’ve seen a lot of people want.... 

What be the use of the Sisturn to help her grow stronger? 

AND even more importantly.. since Abigails Flower now never leaves Wendy’s Inventory... all you would have to do is spam your 600hp Abigail over and over and over again every time she dies to Easily kill the toughest creature in the game.

IF Klei brought Abby’s Health Up.. the flower would need to go on a Summon Cooldown, or Worse.. wilt away into petals upon Abigails dying so you have to actually go Commune with Pipspook, get Mourning Glory and Nightmare Fuel to craft A new Abigail Flower.

 

for me, the only penalty that i want removed is maybe a smaller health curve or the overall damage penalty for fighting multiple enemies. In my opinion, she should get stronger for fighting more enemies. Let bernie have his strong suit, single enemies, and let Abigail shine against hordes of enemies.

[Lukmendes]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Guys- I killed Deerclops with Abigail, she doesn’t need higher health or Damage, trust me she’s fine as Is.. Build two Sisturns, fill them with flower petals what would have normally taken you 3-4 days and having to chase down and kill something- Now fully blooms your flower in about a day. 

When Abigail Dies.. your not rushing to collect her dropped flower or crafting More flowers... Really with this Rework Abigails Flower should never even have to leave Wendy’s Inventory.

When she dies, your still holding the flower and can simply wait for it (very quickly) fully re-Bloom again. 

No murdering Rabbits, no chasing bees, no flower cycling.. 

Wendy is more of a “Ghost Whisperer” Character now. And A Klei Dev stated earlier in a different thread that Abigail Will NEVER be able to be good at 1v1 as much as Bernie.

So yeah wanting like 1000hp on Abby Ain’t gonna happen.

Though stacked Elixer power might..

What's being asked is to improve what she already has instead of making Abigail super overpowered, 'cause there are design issues with how it is right now.

Abigail is made to fight mobs, Klei decided to make her do less damage against mobs, so now Abigail is worse against mobs, even though it's supposed to be her thing.

Elyxir are items you have to specifically try to get stuff for 'em, and when you use them, they're okay or just bad, any of the combat related ones don't last for too long and/or give kinda whatever buffs to Abigail, so you went out of your way to get mediocre stuff, and again, no stacking is just weird.

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Except it WOULD be too much- If Abigail spawned at 600hp like I’ve seen a lot of people want.... 

What would even be the use of the Sisturn to help her grow stronger? 

AND even more importantly.. since Abigails Flower now never leaves Wendy’s Inventory... all you would have to do is spam your 600hp Abigail over and over and over again every time she dies to Easily kill the toughest creature in the game.

IF Klei brought Abby’s Health Up.. the flower would need to go on a Summon Cooldown, or Worse.. wilt away into petals upon Abigails dying so you have to actually go Commune with Pipspook, get Mourning Glory and Nightmare Fuel to craft A new Abigail Flower.

 

Toriih isn't even talking about increasing Abigail's HP, just to improve what's already there to make Abigail's options be worth the time used to get 'em, and remove that questionable damage penalty.

[me real life]

35 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

Also bugs and exploits arent a fair argument point.

My point with bringing up those bugs and exploits wasn't that they're a good or bad thing on their own, my point is that they're so easy to stumble upon if you play DS Woodie at all and yet I've never heard anyone mention them while talking about their Woodie gameplay. If DS Woodie was such an amazing character that everyone seems to have played and loved and wanted in DST, why are obvious things like that not brought up ever? How come none of these hardcore Woodie players ever mention that the most basic action of being Woodie (chopping a tree) can't be done properly with the spacebar unless you treat it like some kind of rhythm game, y'know? It's just strange.

[fimmatek]

One thing that I miss from the rework is that Abigail currently isn't better at all in the caves than on the surface. Indirectly she's even weaker, because Wendy can't use a beefalo for shield in the caves.

Before the rework, Abigail was really good in the caves with her constant 40 AOE damage, be it against spiders, monkeys, worms (if not too many at once), or even clockworks. I liked to base underground with Wendy, but now there's no more reason to go spelunkg with her than with anyone else.

On the topic of Abigail's damage, the idea of hitting harder while Wendy is hurt is good, but you need to lose way to much health to achieve just a reasonably high damage.

[hyiltiz]

Sisturns aurora radius should be large enough to stack; it can take more expensive items than flowers to use for the buff.

[00petar00]

5 hours ago, Toriih said:

 

• Bernie: 2000 HP + 50 base damage against EVERYTHING. Can be sewed and no level to lose.
• Requirements: Get insane.
• Willow: No damage penalty in the character itself so you can use Bernie's damage + yourself with any weapon.

I know Wendy's proposal is to have a different gameplay and Abigail isn't any fighter, but c'mon... These aren't all the problems that this rework has but just by changing that could make everything BETTER. Most of it. All the team that worked on it was really creative on the gameplay changes, but the stats got too deplorable.

Give back Abigail's 10/20/40 damage and change the Elixir or just fix the Defense Elixir, remove the 2+ monsters penalty AND (optional, but would be nice) give Abigail +5 damage per level, totaling 30 at level 3 if possible so Wendy and Abigail can work together again, without any penalty against hordes. No need to change the 60 damage at 1 Hp If these changes actually happen. Finally, it would be considerable to stack up to 2 elixir effects, considering her current situation (At least the life regen with others, like REGEN + Thorns or REGEN + movespeed and REGEN + others elixirs). This is all just my idea and, thankfully, other people who love playing with the character. Please consider at least her damage penalty.

Willow needs to be insane and also needs to repair bernie with sewing kit, how is that comparable to abigail that can follow you around everywhere and has no restrictions while also regenerating on its own?

I quite agree with you that Abigail's damage shouldn't be decreased by 8 when fighting group enemies and i also believe the defense elixir should be of more use. I am not against buffs to Wendy but i just don't see why you have to compare abigail to bernie and think that bernie is too strong while still having such restrictions.

To me it feels like bernie is in a good spot and abigail should get buffs, as there's no reason for her damage to be cut when fighting multiple enemies, that is a big part of her identity.

[Mike23Ua]

You guys are still heavily Underestimating the power of

“Ghost Whispering.”

Your comparing Bernie and Abigail when the two aren’t even remotely the same, BERNIE Spawns and is Aggressive to Nightmare Creatures.. and cant be told to Calm Down or to Get Riled Up.

You Also can’t Summon or Un-Summon Bernie at your own Command.

When Bernie Dies you need to gather Materials to create a New Bernie.

 

REWORK Abigail can be Summoned from her flower, In Sooth State she ONLY Attacks what Wendy tries to Attack just like pre-Rework Wendy. 

In Riled up state she attacks anything that moves (or at least she did until today’s hotfix for PC, still does on Console though)

Abigail can be Summoned from her flower and then Returned into her flower so you can Do things as Wendy without her in the way- And Without Reseting her stats to default.

When Abigail DIES she Despawns but the flower is STILL in Wendy’s Inventory- So In Theroy you could probably just Infinitely Summon Abigail and let her die over and over again to “Cheat” your way through most of the games mobs.

The SISTURN When fueled with flower petals makes Abigails Flower bloom Faster, taking what Pre-Rework Wendy would’ve took 3-4 in game days now only about a day and a half to reach full Bloom.

 

So the TL:DR Abigails Flower is an Essential tool to Wendy, that lets her always have Abigail with her even if she just got killed in Battle.

BERNIE has to be Summoned at low Sanity and when killed you must get ingredients to craft another.

 

I feel the need to also stress that Willow has other perks besides just BERNIE, such as complete Immunity to fire damage, and fast cooking food portable on the go with her Lighter.

Wendy’s Kit is all Abigail & not much else.

[Vasz_]

1 hour ago, Owlrus98 said:

As much as I wish it weren't true, right now it really kinda feels like Wendy is now a worse Willow but with dmg reduction and a less useful bernie as it stands.

I'm sure Klei will address any concerns in a future patch later, if needed; they have always been good to the community, and after the Woodie rework (with all its insane backlash) they demonstrated that profusely.

Agreed 100%. I love Wendy, but Willow is far superior as it stands. The elixirs are very underwhelming and everything Abigail does, Bernie does better, except for crowd control. Even if Abigail was as good as Bernie, there's the fact that Willow has more upsides and little to no downsides. There's a large disconnect between how impactful the damage penalty is versus how useful Abigail can be and it's much more noticeable when compared to Willow. It feels like Klei is trying to break even with Wendy's upsides and downsides, while every other character (not you Wes) ends up with a net positive. That said, I believe Klei is more than competent to correct this, as evidenced by the past reworks and updates in general.

[DVGMedia]

I personally would want the battle elixers to last longer like half a day

same as warlys food

 

[Vasz_]

46 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Willow needs to be insane and also needs to repair bernie with sewing kit, how is that comparable to abigail that can follow you around everywhere and has no restrictions while also regenerating on its own?

Insanity is a non-issue for Willow because Bernie can protect you and it's far from hard to stay insane all the time, besides, Nightmare Fuel is very useful. The sewing kit is very easy to make and each one has 5 uses, bringing Bernie back to his full glory in no time with very little effort. Meanwhile Abigail has to wait a relatively long time to go back to 100% despite not being nearly as durable or strong as Bernie. The sistern helps, but compared to Bernie's instant heals, it's not nearly as good.

[00petar00]

Just now, Vasz_ said:

Insanity is a non-issue for Willow because Bernie can protect you and it's far from hard to stay insane all the time, besides, Nightmare Fuel is very useful. The sewing kit is very easy to make and each one has 5 uses, bringing Bernie back to his full glory in no time with very little effort. Meanwhile Abigail has to wait a relatively long time to go back to 100% despite not being nearly as durable or strong as Bernie. The sistern helps, but compared to Bernie's instant heals, it's not nearly as good.

Bernie takes damage though and needs to be repaired, stay insane 24/7 and see how you fare with it. It is still a restriction that Wendy doesn't have and as people mentioned, you can't command bernie like you do with abigail. If bernie is destroyed, you need to craft another one while with Wendy you just need to wait like 1 day or so with sisturn to be able to respawn abigail which is completely free and she also regens on her own if she doesn't die while you need to repair bernie.

Bernie instant heals require items while abigail heals for free, why are you comparing the free heal to a heal that has a cost?

[Mike23Ua]

Also- Willow is Immune to fire damage, so can put out all fires that are starting with no health lost, spawns with her own light source and can cook food using her lighter.

 

Why on earth Is Wendy still so Weak even WITH Rework Abigail again??? I thought Wendy was supposed to be an EASIER Character to Play.

Just Sayin..

[Vasz_]

11 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Bernie takes damage though and needs to be repaired, stay insane 24/7 and see how you fare with it. It is still a restriction that Wendy doesn't have and as people mentioned, you can't command bernie like you do with abigail. If bernie is destroyed, you need to craft another one while with Wendy you just need to wait like 1 day or so with sisturn to be able to respawn abigail which is completely free and she also regens on her own if she doesn't die while you need to repair bernie.

Bernie instant heals require items while abigail heals for free, why are you comparing the free heal to a heal that has a cost?

Abigail's healing is not cost free, it costs time. While you may argue that Bernie's healing costs time too because you have to gather materials, Sewing Kits are very easy to make and you get materials for them naturally, more than you can use at some point. You will always have to wait for Abigail's to heal, but at some point you can heal Bernie instantly over and over again. If you're talking about the very first days, sure you got a point, but unless you restart your world every few hours then Abigail falls short very fast, especially because of how underwhelming the elixirs are.

The sanity is indeed a restriction that Wendy doesn't have, but I guess it boils down to personal preference because I have no issue with being constantly insane. Besides, managing sanity is very easy, especially with fire. I really can't comment on how useful commanding Abigail is and as for Bernie getting destroyed, when does that happen?

[Yuuko]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

*all the things you said comparing Barnie to Abigail*

Do you play these characters?  This all sounds like exagerations and assumptions, not experience.

1) I don't think multiple sisturns stack for quickening Abigail.  Just one and she will power up in about a day.

2) When abigail dies she keeps the 1 hp when you resummon her... so whether her hp pool is 150 or 600 max she'll still be at 1 single hp when she gets killed.  You can't "spam summon" her to get through anything...  Also you need to go through a slight pause to summon her which might make bringing her back out tough mid fight.

3) When bernie dies you just sew him and he's instantly 100%.  A sewing kit costs 1 log, 8 spider silk, and 2 hound teeth.  Not exactly exotic materials.  It also has multiple uses.  Also you can drop multiple bernies and once the first dies another will almost instantly rise up to replace him.  You can drop a dozen of them if you want and they're all lined up to join the action...

4) Going insane is insanely easy.  Just carry some glommer goop and BAM instant Bernie.  Putting him away is a bit more tedious, but green mushrooms have a pretty good shelf life and because Willow has such low max sanity it only takes a few to put Bernie away.  That is... if you wanted to put him away...

5) While Bernie doesn't have a "rile up" or "chill out" command he will aggro on things you attack, and will react to things being aggrod on you.  He won't hunt butterflies for me, but then again... neither will abi now T_T

Now all that said - I'm not sure exactly what your point is.  I'm not sure whether you think Abigail is fine or Abigail needs buffs, or what.  I'm not saying I agree or disagree with your opinion of things.  These are just things I think needed to be corrected with what you were saying.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 days since wendy being reworked and instead of learning how to play her propperly better ask for buffs

lets make this game a faceroll like others

[Scrimbles]

5 hours ago, Sunset Skye said:

My point with bringing up those bugs and exploits wasn't that they're a good or bad thing on their own, my point is that they're so easy to stumble upon if you play DS Woodie at all and yet I've never heard anyone mention them while talking about their Woodie gameplay. If DS Woodie was such an amazing character that everyone seems to have played and loved and wanted in DST, why are obvious things like that not brought up ever? How come none of these hardcore Woodie players ever mention that the most basic action of being Woodie (chopping a tree) can't be done properly with the spacebar unless you treat it like some kind of rhythm game, y'know? It's just strange.

Its just not relevant to the core of playing Woodie.

Slightly bothersome I suppose, and it would be much better if it was fixed, but its not really a big deal.

Most people just ignore bugs, like sure you can dig up the volcano in shipwrecked, but I get the feeling that even if alot of people knew about it they likely wouldnt actually do it.

[Terra B Welch]

I do agree that abigail could do with a damage buff, against splumonkies in the ruins, she was going from killing them in 3 hits to killing them in on average 7(6 if it's just one)

And the ruins are the last place you'd want to be at extremely low health. :s

The only plus side to this is there is no more risk of her dying and having a splumonkey steal her flower.

 

[Kaw_]

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Willow needs to be insane and also needs to repair bernie with sewing kit, how is that comparable to abigail that can follow you around everywhere and has no restrictions while also regenerating on its own?

I quite agree with you that Abigail's damage shouldn't be decreased by 8 when fighting group enemies and i also believe the defense elixir should be of more use. I am not against buffs to Wendy but i just don't see why you have to compare abigail to bernie and think that bernie is too strong while still having such restrictions.

To me it feels like bernie is in a good spot and abigail should get buffs, as there's no reason for her damage to be cut when fighting multiple enemies, that is a big part of her identity.

Sorry for looking confusing so let me try to clarify: Yes, Bernie is indeed doing his part well, and he does it without Willow losing too much. She can even fight alongside him safely and add her damage to his. When we go to the use of this new Wendy, in fact the use of the character was never for heavy combat as Bernie has the capacity, but the risks you expose yourself to for a low amount of damage is not worth the effort, thanks to the damage penalty. And with this penalty, to make Abigail "work" you take too much risk, and you can't even help her, as it was before. Bernie is doing his part but Abigail is not.

Basically: Willow does not take such risks and has a good result. Wendy sacrifices a lot and it's not worth it.

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

You guys are still heavily Underestimating the power of

“Ghost Whispering.”

Your comparing Bernie and Abigail when the two aren’t even remotely the same, BERNIE Spawns and is Aggressive to Nightmare Creatures.. and cant be told to Calm Down or to Get Riled Up.

You Also can’t Summon or Un-Summon Bernie at your own Command.

When Bernie Dies you need to gather Materials to create a New Bernie.

 

REWORK Abigail can be Summoned from her flower, In Sooth State she ONLY Attacks what Wendy tries to Attack just like pre-Rework Wendy. 

In Riled up state she attacks anything that moves (or at least she did until today’s hotfix for PC, still does on Console though)

Abigail can be Summoned from her flower and then Returned into her flower so you can Do things as Wendy without her in the way- And Without Reseting her stats to default.

When Abigail DIES she Despawns but the flower is STILL in Wendy’s Inventory- So In Theroy you could probably just Infinitely Summon Abigail and let her die over and over again to “Cheat” your way through most of the games mobs.

The SISTURN When fueled with flower petals makes Abigails Flower bloom Faster, taking what Pre-Rework Wendy would’ve took 3-4 in game days now only about a day and a half to reach full Bloom.

 

So the TL:DR Abigails Flower is an Essential tool to Wendy, that lets her always have Abigail with her even if she just got killed in Battle.

BERNIE has to be Summoned at low Sanity and when killed you must get ingredients to craft another.

 

I feel the need to also stress that Willow has other perks besides just BERNIE, such as complete Immunity to fire damage, and fast cooking food portable on the go with her Lighter.

Wendy’s Kit is all Abigail & not much else.

Try not to compare so much, it wasn't my goal, I just wanted to clarify that Willow doesn't lose much to receive something, but Wendy loses too much and it's not worth it, sacrifices that the old one didn't have.