Please Nerf Boat Kits

[Mike23Ua]

Just like the title suggests... I would love for strategic placement of Boat Kits that makes traveling the map 100x easier to be Nerfed. I will provide a GIF to show what I mean..

As you can see in the Gif I am able to hop between 3 different Biomes of Land that would normally be separated by this body of Water.

Boat kit placement like this makes having a Gap hoping Wortox on your team almost Useless..

So Here’s what I Purpose as an Alternative: I generally LIKE the Idea of being able to place a structure in the water to make traveling to the other Biomes easier, However I don’t feel that Exploiting Boat Kit Placement is the right answer..

Instead what I Purpose is that Klei make these Water stream gaps Too Small to actually fit the Boat Into And instead Give us the ability to build actual Bridges composed of Rope and Wooden Planks..

I will provide a few Example Images Below.

To Build These Bridges you will need to make a Starting Connection Point and an Ending Connection Point- Which Means.. Instead of just tossing a boat in the water and merrily hopping across it you actually have travel to the other Biome first.

Not only does this provide the Nerf to Boat Kit Exploits that I am asking for but it also allows a Soul Hopping Wortox to quickly and effectively place the Start and Ending portions to complete the Rope Bridge making his Soul Hop or Were-Goose Woodie ALOT more useful again.

 

 

[RogueGamer12]

Bridges is always something i want, or at least some form of platform.

 

Dunno about the resource costs, but i think it'll use planks and rope to be made.

[Sweaper]

Bridges + Caves = Sad Wortox slave building for his fellow comrades

[Bird Up]

I agree bridges and docks would be nice. I think they should be placed more like turf, though you'd perhaps use a hammer to remove bridges instead of a pitchfork.

[Mike23Ua]

Let me clear this up a bit- This Idea is only for Small Bridges between narrow gaps of land that is separated by a tiny stream of water as seen in the above GiF.

It Is NOT an Idea for Massive rope Bridges from the main land to the Lunar Island.. I’m pretty sure that Boats colliding into that thing would become an Issue... but in the case of these Smaller streams where boats can’t fit.. rope Bridges would be Awesome.

[Scrimbles]

So, instead of just using a boat, you want a separate item to accomplish the same task but worse?

In your example it would mean creating 3 bridges instead of 1 boat, its just the same thing with more of a potential cost.

 

I just don't see the point.

[Mike23Ua]

5 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

So, instead of just using a boat, you want a separate item to accomplish the same task but worse?

In your example it would mean creating 3 bridges instead of 1 boat, its just the same thing with more of a potential cost.

 

I just don't see the point.

The point is to make streams smaller so them boats don’t even fit in them like that anymore.

Besides.. the Cookie shaped boats being used like that are ugly but a Bridge would be a beautiful addition to your Base Scenery.

[WoodieMain45684]

Just keep it the way it is now, but add a more cost effective bridge recipe that works in shallow water, no need to change existing boat mechanics.

[Yuuko]

Generally I don't see the point with this.  If boats do something and you want to change boats to not do this thing, but you also want something else added to still do this thing...  then why not just leave boats as they are?

Boats are already expensive.  It takes dedication to build a boat bridge to the moon island and I really don't see the point of doing it...  Which makes me wonder why someone would even complain about that.  I get when people complain about using a wall to fight dfly - they want to be the OP player who everyone is in awe of because they beat the boss and hate seeing others who aren't MLG360noscope players be able to beat this boss with a few structures and basic game play.  But here...  what is so bad about people walking to the lunar biome at the cost of farming probably a thousand logs?  You still gotta find the thing, and when you find it you can scoop up all of the rock fruit bushes and then why go back...?

I mean really - the Lunar Biome for me is a one and done trip for the most part.  Maybe wicker wants to set up a dream lureplant farm there so she can read her books in peace, but once you have 1000+ grass and twiggs then what are you gonna do there? lol  Its not exactly a frequent spot to cross through.

If you're trying to defend Wortox consider that boats take a lot of logs, not just 1 soul, and boats provide a platform for your enemies too where Wortox can use a good teleport to give an enemy the slip.  Also the boats can be destoryed.  There are enough differences to have them both exist in the world, and I don't think Wortox is gonna cry about it.

Also - If they made the water areas more narrow worldgen would probably give us bridges for free...  so I don't think they could do that...

[Well-met]

Actually agree. I'd want to be prevented from making a 30 boat bridge to the moon island.

[Ezaroth]

nah just make boats more expensive, 4 boards is a joke.

[-Nick-]

Just now, Ezaroth said:

nah just make boats more expensive, 4 boards is a joke.

add some rope into the kit, like where does all of that rope come from when you place the boat?

[maciu67]

With only four boards you can feel like Wortox.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Generally I don't see the point with this.  If boats do something and you want to change boats to not do this thing, but you also want something else added to still do this thing...  then why not just leave boats as they are?

Boats are already expensive.  It takes dedication to build a boat bridge to the moon island and I really don't see the point of doing it...  Which makes me wonder why someone would even complain about that.  I get when people complain about using a wall to fight dfly - they want to be the OP player who everyone is in awe of because they beat the boss and hate seeing others who aren't MLG360noscope players be able to beat this boss with a few structures and basic game play.  But here...  what is so bad about people walking to the lunar biome at the cost of farming probably a thousand logs?  You still gotta find the thing, and when you find it you can scoop up all of the rock fruit bushes and then why go back...?

I mean really - the Lunar Biome for me is a one and done trip for the most part.  Maybe wicker wants to set up a dream lureplant farm there so she can read her books in peace, but once you have 1000+ grass and twiggs then what are you gonna do there? lol  Its not exactly a frequent spot to cross through.

If you're trying to defend Wortox consider that boats take a lot of logs, not just 1 soul, and boats provide a platform for your enemies too where Wortox can use a good teleport to give an enemy the slip.  Also the boats can be destoryed.  There are enough differences to have them both exist in the world, and I don't think Wortox is gonna cry about it.

Also - If they made the water areas more narrow worldgen would probably give us bridges for free...  so I don't think they could do that...

Enemies Swim.. the them following you onto a boat thing was really only for when On the Sea.. 

But to answer you question the best way I know how: I want to build a Japanese Sakura Base with a Rope Bridge and Water Fountains on the Entrance and Exit points of the Bridge and an Ugly freaking Round Boat cookie is NOT going to look pretty in that base.

(besides be honest... 4 Wooden Planks to put these Boat Kits all around the map is fairly cheap)

Which is why I want an item added to the game that serves the same basic function, but at slightly more of a Risk/Cost.

3 hours ago, WoodieMain45684 said:

Just keep it the way it is now, but add a more cost effective bridge recipe that works in shallow water, no need to change existing boat mechanics.

It’s not changing boat mechanics at all.., it’s changing world generation so that the gap between the Biomes is smaller and boats no longer fit in between them.

[SinancoTheBest]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

It’s not changing boat mechanics at all.., it’s changing world generation so that the gap between the Biomes is smaller and boats no longer fit in between them.

well that's not as easy as it sounds, since as far as world gen is concerned there are tiles of same volume, one type of tile makes it ground and another makes it  water tile. As such, a river that connects to the sea looks like this in wordgen (X's are land, O's are sea):
 

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The whole map is made of these same sized blocks that determine biomes, landbridges, coves, lakes and rivers. Changing it to place smaller bodies of the sea would be hard I imagine, since it's see the introduction of wholly new type of tiles that the worldgen has to adapt to.

 

Also, an advantage of boats as pseudo bridges is that it makes it only useful on the surface world. In the caves, boats wont work but the bridges might. Wouldn't that be against what you're advocating here, diminishing Wortox's and Lazy Explorer's hop ability down there too? I mean I'm not against bridges myself but the reasoning you provided to "nerf boats" returns on a whole new level when bridges are concerned.

[Mike23Ua]

25 minutes ago, SinancoTheBest said:

well that's not as easy as it sounds, since as far as world gen is concerned there are tiles of same volume, one type of tile makes it ground and another makes it  water tile. As such, a river that connects to the sea looks like this in wordgen (X's are land, O's are sea):
 

XXXXXXXXXX

XXXXXXOXXX

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XXXXXOXXXX

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XXXXXXOXXX

XXXXOOOXXX

XXOOOOOOX

OOOOOOOOO

 

The whole map is made of these same sized blocks that determine biomes, landbridges, coves, lakes and rivers. Changing it to place smaller bodies of the sea would be hard I imagine, since it's see the introduction of wholly new type of tiles that the worldgen has to adapt to.

 

Also, an advantage of boats as pseudo bridges is that it makes it only useful on the surface world. In the caves, boats wont work but the bridges might. Wouldn't that be against what you're advocating here, diminishing Wortox's and Lazy Explorer's hop ability down there too? I mean I'm not against bridges myself but the reasoning you provided to "nerf boats" returns on a whole new level when bridges are concerned.

 

This was never meant to apply to caves at all.. only Wooden, Rope or Stone Bridges between the very Narrow gaps of land separating two biomes over a body of Water.

When you play Minecraft, Red Dead Redemption, or even GTA V, there are areas of land that are separated by these type of bridges.

I don’t think it SHOULD work in caves because I think the general Concept behind caves.. particularly the Ruins, is to be a Maze.. and placing Bridges down there would completely negate the whole design.

I guess the TL:DR- The original point of this post was to NERF Boat Kits.. by making the stream between lands too small to fit the kit into, but to also add a more resource costly and dangerous way of performing the same task the Boat Kits used to.

Take my original GiF as the example- in that image one strategically placed 4 plank boat let’s me hop between 3 different biomes without ever having actually been to and explored those biomes.

BRIDGES however would require you to place a connecting point on one island and a ending point on the other, so unless your playing as Were-Goose Woodie or Wortox you will actually have to travel to those other Biomes before you can place the other half of the Bridge.

Bridges would also obviously require just a few more resources than the Boat Kit, I’m thinking maybe 2 Rope, 4 Planks, 6 Twigs.

Sounds fair for a Tiny Bridge held together by Rope, Planks and couple Wooden sticks.

[Maxposting]

9 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

The point is to make streams smaller so them boats don’t even fit in them like that anymore.

Some Streams are actually small way much that you can't place the boats.

 

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Minecraft, Red Dead Redemption, or even GTA V

incommensurable

[Moonatik]

Bridges. I asked for it. It's more for the visual aspect, but even that makes sense.

BUT, stop using that word: Exploit. It could lead to some words like... Legit. And we would be done into a nightmare of discussion about things that are completely already legit.

So maybe you mix different things too far for what it is. 

You're talking about this point, the other side, like an unreachable point, so far that a boat would save us. Thats why you ask to be on each side to build the bridge, which makes sense. But tell me how long you kept a biome undiscover just because you were too lazy to make the 1/3 day travel to visit it ?

Won't you visit all the map before you place all your bridges ? What about these games where we wont have Wortox or Woody ?

Nerf, exploit, cheese, (Hello, I'm cheesing the sea), Exploit with big E !!! Come on, you just ask for beautiful wooden bridges, and I'll go further with stone bridges and marble bridges. Here what I think: The longer the bridge are, better ressources would be recquires.    

[JimmyJam]

This reminds me of the time they added wormholes into the game. People said they would be OP and ruin exploring in the game. Now look... no one really uses them haha

[Well-met]

1 hour ago, JimmyJam said:

This reminds me of the time they added wormholes into the game. People said they would be OP and ruin exploring in the game. Now look... no one really uses them haha

um everyone uses them. They make retreating from any fight a joke.

[Queron81]

I would also like bridges. For the boats: they should only stay in place in the long run, if there is a lowered anchor on them. If not, they should begin to move slowly after a while.

[Dunk Mujunk]

9 minutes ago, Queron81 said:

I would also like bridges. For the boats: they should only stay in place in the long run, if there is a lowered anchor on them. If not, they should begin to move slowly after a while.

I'm currently in the middle of a test (which has been put on the back burner as we prepare for our first ever attempt at Misery Toad) in which i've placed a 6x6 square of boats far into the ocean. For the first phase, all were anchored, and after finishing in spring and spending summer in the caves, I returned to find them all in place. The following spring I removed the anchor from 2 boats in the middle of the formation, raised the anchor from 2 boats in the middle of the formation, removed the anchor from 1 boat on the perimeter, and raised the anchor of 1 boat on the perimeter (the boats in the middle were surrounded by anchored boats). I was surprised when I returned the following autumn to find all boats still intact and in place.

That was a year or so ago game time, and I haven't been back out since, but it seems a bit weird. On our first map with Hook Line and Inker I built a bridge to the closest salt formations I could find, and every boat was destroyed in place when I came back. I also make throwaway boats in the beginning of every map for exploring, and on our current map at this point i've found I think every throwaway boat I made adrift far from where I landed it.

I know there was a patch a week or 2 ago that addressed anchored boats still sinking when the player was away. I'm not sure how that effected everything, but what a boat does when the player is away still seems a bit unpredictable. I have built the type of boat bridges discussed in this thread on a previous map, 2 boats wide at the most, and even unanchored they did still stay in place. Yet an actual boat dumped on the coast unanchored seems to float away pretty quick.

All that aside, id hate to see boats changed in a way that would make boat basing impossible. I do like the idea of bridges, and I could honestly care less about people making bridges out of boats. 

[TemporaryMan]

@SinancoTheBest Just for the record, the river actually looks more like this:

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man, what's somebody got to do to get a monospace font around here?

So no, it doesn't need smaller tiles for the water since the rivers are already 2-3 tiles across in most places.

[SinancoTheBest]

2 hours ago, TemporaryMan said:

@SinancoTheBest Just for the record, the river actually looks more like this:

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man, what's somebody got to do to get a monospace font around here?

So no, it doesn't need smaller tiles for the water since the rivers are already 2-3 tiles across in most places.

Ah thanks, didn't know that an average river wide enough to place a boat but too narrow to sail through was made uo of three seperate tiles in the code. And I totally felt your pain with the lack ofmonospace when drawing my Xs and Os.

[Mike23Ua]

4 hours ago, TemporaryMan said:

@SinancoTheBest Just for the record, the river actually looks more like this:

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XXXXXXOOOXXX

XXXXXXOOOXXX

XXXXXOOOXXXX

XXXXXOOOXXXX

XXXXXOOOXXXX

XXXXXOOXXXXX

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man, what's somebody got to do to get a monospace font around here?

So no, it doesn't need smaller tiles for the water since the rivers are already 2-3 tiles across in most places.

This is a really terrible example though... because you literally just proved that at least 6 out 10 spots can be exploited with Boat Kit Placement, If that isn’t a clear indication that most rivers should be smaller than Boat Kit placement idk What is.

I think the main thing is that when Klei added the Boats, they didn’t think about players using them as wooden planks to jump between biomes, So they didn’t bother decreasing the gap size between biome Rivers.