Preventing Food Poison

[JNapoleon120]

So I picked the game back up after not playing it for a while, due to waiting for the release so I don't have to start a new colony.  I'm running into a problem and not sure what is causing it.  I know that the disease system has changed but my dupes keep getting food poison.  I have all the bathrooms locked down with washing stations and the mess hall and kitchen have them as well, but the food poison keeps getting on my plants and food.  I even destroyed, with the sandbox tool, everything with food poison to start on a clean slate but it still spread.  I can post my set up, I was just wondering if I was missing something that others found while playing.  

Thanks

P.S. I figure I should put a picture up.

[angrybovine]

When I picked up the game I was having the same issue as well, so I kept the Dupe count low, kept it at slow speed, used the germ overlay and watched my Dupes to see what was doing it.

 

Food Poisoning occurs when a Dupe eats Food with Food Poisoning on it or when they eat while having Food Poisoning germs on themselves (dirty hands).

Whenever a Dupe picks up\puts down\stores something with germs or Interacts with a building covered in germs, they then get the germs on them and spread them to buildings and ladders.

Emptying germy bottles at a Pitcher Pump also will give you surface germs.

Handling germy Polluted Dirt\using the Compost when it has germs\handling the germy regular Dirt from a germy Compost will give you surface germs.

Every time you interact with the above you need to wash off the germs immediately or you spread them.

Best solution is to not handle the above as much as possible, and when you do you need to have stations for Dupes to clean themselves.

To avoid the germy Polluted Dirt\Compost\Dirt cycle, you can disinfect Polluted Water before you sieve it so the Polluted Dirt that results is already germ-free.

Pathing is a big deal.  Make sure Dupes don't have ways to get dirty and avoid washing.

You can also use doors to limit who gets access to certain areas which can help avoid scenarios where you have more Dupes in an area than wash stations so 1 or more Dupes sneaks past them when all are in use.

[mathmanican]

40 minutes ago, angrybovine said:

Best solution is to not handle the above as much as possible,

I agree completely. On cycle 1, I prioritize getting to water and building a washing station next to my outhouse. Then I never touch the dirt and water from these, period, till I have a way to handle them. I currently rush my sink and lavatory, before I have to empty an outhouse or washing station, and then just leave them unused for a really long time (no PO2 emissions either - I disable the first outhouse before it fills, and start on the second). 

Once you get one thing dirty, you keep spreading the filth every time you touch it. Then every ladder you climb gets it as well. It becomes a real pain to get rid of....  Same it true of slimelung, though eating slimelung doesn't do anything to your dupes. If you like to play clean freak style (keep germs at 0), then beware.  One mishap can lead your dupes into an almost endless cleaning cycle. 

Bonus... you get really strong dupes, as cleaning increases strength. It's actually a fun gym strength training technique (though keep the infection localized, and have LOTS of sinks at the exit to your gym, enough that you'll never let all your dupes through without cleaning). 

[Prince Mandor]

I see lot of enabled water coolers. Where you take a water for them? Is it clean? And what food you produce?

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

I get a sick dupe from time to time from food poisoning. Pretty sure it is basically inevitable without rigorious countermeasures.

Given the penalty is rather low, I can pretty much live with it.

[SharraShimada]

2 things from your screenshot:

1. wash stations are not that effective as plumbed ones. 

2. 1 station is not enough. If occupied, the next dupe entering your kitchen will just pass. 

[Prince Mandor]

1 station is enough in this place. Dupes must be clear at this point, so only if occasionally one of them became dirty they wash hands, but normally they just pass it

[Neotuck]

@JNapoleon120

Here's an example of my bathroom setup

0 food poisoning germs escape this

[Melodist]

Lots of reply, many solution, general consensus would be that to upgrade "outhouse and wash basin" buildings to "Lavatory and Sink" buildin combined with "Liquid Reservoir" will keep the germs secluded until you process them through whichever manner you choose for elimination.

 

From the original poster setup, it looks like the following is the cause of germ spread (the problem), is that the germs that exist on the items/ore/thimble weed are exiting that "quarantine" zone that was built. Wash Basin and Sink only eliminate germs from your duplicant itself passing through, not the ores/items they are carrying. The ores/items germs will persist and potentially spread.

The position of your "Compost" building forces your duplicant to take "Polluted Dirt" outside of their "Quarantine Zone". There's a chance they will be interrupted and drop the Polluted Dirt on this errand trip. The path that Polluted Dirt must be carried by a duplicant should be in an exclusion zone. Meaning you'd need another Compost building in your top bathroom floor, or build a stair that allows top to bottom floor access within those two floors. (Right now your duplicant is using your main ladder to take the polluted dirt to their destination, this is a no no"

"Germs" , the two types, Slimeslung and Food Poisioning,  that exist on items in the setup (Food, Dirt, Thimble Weed) germs die over time naturally in open oxygen and some other gases, and reproduce themselves in open polluted oxygen/water. This said, the game is forgiving with Food Poisoning germs on items, germs should die naturally if handled correctly. (Handle correctly = don't allow it to populate/reproduce, which will cause it to self eliminate, although other method of elimination is fine too of course)

The building "Ore Scrubber" is overkill for the purpose of eliminating food poisoning germs on items, more reasonable for slimeslung germ efficiency wise, but there's nothing wrong with it if users decide to use them in this manner.

The overall solution would be to build new designs with Lavatory and Sink as you progress through the game, which you will naturally do and experiment with as you play the game. I think a poor unfun solution is to just copy another design without understanding the differences within. Nothing wrong with that of course, but this disable you to manufactor your own designs since you lack the knowledge of the mechanics that forged the designs.

Example of some extra stuff you could do with regular "Outhouse/Wash Basin" setup, keeping a polluted dirt "Storage Bin" and "Compost" in 50kg to 100kg of water will prevent the polluted oxygen expelled from those items that are in those buildings. (50kg and 100kg acceptable amount number range is wider than said).

Another extra would be to allow opened polluted water (where your polluted water/pump locate) to have no open air space, or minimize to 1 open air space for delivery (Due to early game designs). At the moment you have 3 open air space where your polluted water pool is located. 3 open air space allows faster expulsion of polluted oxygen from the polluted water versus 1 open air space.

The way a lot of people play this game, you'll figure these things out and implement them into your own designs as time goes on. This is a complex game regarding how things interact with one another in regard to the amount of information. It's not difficult, it's just a lot of information.

[KittenIsAGeek]

14 hours ago, JNapoleon120 said:

So I picked the game back up after not playing it for a while, due to waiting for the release so I don't have to start a new colony.  I'm running into a problem and not sure what is causing it.  I know that the disease system has changed but my dupes keep getting food poison. 

There are several factors that will get your dupes infected with food poisoning:

1. Not washing hands after using the bathroom.  Or after handling polluted dirt and messing with the compost pile.  These are the two biggest factors, especially in the early base.
2. Contaminated drinking water.  Your water coolers, which your dupes hang out around during their break time, can become a source of infection for your dupes.  Make sure that the water being put in them comes from clean sources and isn't contaminated.
3. Contaminated food.  Mush bars and similar use water as part of their recipe.  If the water is contaminated, then the food will be as well.  Also, if the dupe that is cooking has contaminated hands, then the food will be contaminated.  If you're still having troubles with contamination, then put a sink or wash basin on the path to the food and cooking areas.

[Nightinggale]

It prevents food poisoning too.

[Neotuck]

Pro tip:

For early base management with outhouses and wash basins, just leave the PW bottles and Pdirt on the floor.  Sure it looks messy but the dupes won't touch it and risk caring the germs to other parts of the base

[Gurgel]

I do use one wash-basin per outhouse, I usually do the upgrade very late. Other than that I just have the very cheap medication available. Make 100 or so and forget about it for a long time. 

[JohnFrancis]

On 6/3/2019 at 3:57 AM, JNapoleon120 said:

dupes keep getting food poison

Without a save file my best guess would be you are using the dirt from the toilets in your mush bars.

You compost the polluted dirt from your toilets, the regular dirt it spits out will have food germs on it. They do die off but very slowly. I can see a mush bar by your nutrient press, that takes dirt and the closest source of dirt is your compost pile. Does not matter if the dupes wash their hand if the dirt is the germ transfer medium, stop making mush bars.

 

[JNapoleon120]

Wow Thanks guys for all the comments.  I think I found the problem 

On 6/3/2019 at 11:13 PM, JohnFrancis said:

Without a save file my best guess would be you are using the dirt from the toilets in your mush bars.

You compost the polluted dirt from your toilets, the regular dirt it spits out will have food germs on it. They do die off but very slowly. I can see a mush bar by your nutrient press, that takes dirt and the closest source of dirt is your compost pile. Does not matter if the dupes wash their hand if the dirt is the germ transfer medium, stop making mush bars.

 

I'm not using mush bars any more cause liceloaf is more water efficient, but it still requires dirt.  I always forget just because it is now non-polluted material doesn't mean it isn't germy. I'll have to figure out how to handle that polluted dirt now.  

[beowulf2010]

50 minutes ago, JNapoleon120 said:

I'll have to figure out how to handle that polluted dirt now.  

For me, I just ignore it until I have exosuits and make a chlorine room to store/process it in. As long as the room is sealed and has more than 1.8kg of pressure in the chlorine, the polluted dirt can't offgas and the chlorine kills any germs in around 1/3 of a cycle. 

Also, as Neotuck mentioned on Monday and provided screen shots of, if you sterilize the polluted water before running it through the water seive, then you won't have germs on polluted dirt and is now safe to handle even in your base. (I know, not useful when still using outhouses but...) 

[Neotuck]

2 hours ago, JNapoleon120 said:

I'm not using mush bars any more cause liceloaf is more water efficient, but it still requires dirt.  I always forget just because it is now non-polluted material doesn't mean it isn't germy. I'll have to figure out how to handle that polluted dirt now. 

switch to pickled meal, it's more water efficient than liceloaf and stays fresh much longer.

[JNapoleon120]

Don't know if this is a bug or not but I restarted on the same map trying to make things a little more sterile and was doing great and then started making mush bars with clean resources (even double checked the contents in the processor) but the mush bars come out with 1000 food poison germs.  Anyone else experience this?  I know for absolute sure nothing got to the food.  

[Prince Mandor]

4 hours ago, JNapoleon120 said:

Don't know if this is a bug or not but I restarted on the same map trying to make things a little more sterile and was doing great and then started making mush bars with clean resources (even double checked the contents in the processor) but the mush bars come out with 1000 food poison germs.  Anyone else experience this?  I know for absolute sure nothing got to the food.  

Can you catch an exact moment of appearance of germs?

Can you make couple of screenshots in germs overlay?

Is it clean dupe, making mushbars at clean musher, and inside clean musher there are clean water and clean dirt? Check all four.

(And, BTW, you can process your mushbars at grill, if you have cook, killing food germs)

[Sasza22]

9 hours ago, JNapoleon120 said:

started making mush bars with clean resources (even double checked the contents in the processor) but the mush bars come out with 1000 food poison germs.

Did you check the dupe making them. If he got germs on him it would transfer to the mushbars. Also the machine can have germs on it. It`s not only the contents that transfer the germs.

[JNapoleon120]

Yup I kept careful eye on it and it still does it.  Did it again and still gives 1000 food poison germs.

[Sasza22]

10 hours ago, JNapoleon120 said:

Yup I kept careful eye on it and it still does it.  Did it again and still gives 1000 food poison germs.

Maybe it`s a feature. It`s a static 1000 germs. Seems like something made on purpose. To make mush bars even worse i guess.

[Nightinggale]

7 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

Maybe it`s a feature. It`s a static 1000 germs.

I went searching and found this in the templates:

  - id: MushBar
    element: Creature
    units: 2
    temperature: 293
    diseaseName: FoodPoisoning
    diseaseCount: 100000
    rottable:
      rotAmount: 2396.44214
  rottable: {}
  amounts: []
  other_values: []

It does mention something about MushBar, 20 C temperature and a bunch of food poisoning. Now it would be interesting to see if MushBars are always 20 C when created regardless of input temperatures.

[adonijahkrosby]

I get a sick dupe from time to time from food poisoning. Pretty sure it is basically inevitable without rigorious countermeasures.Sure it looks messy but the dupes won't touch it and risk caring the germs to other parts of the base