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inferjus4

Is there any info about Warbucks?

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Zeklo    17672
4 minutes ago, Pop Guy said:

The concept was boring because the gameplay was boring. 

That's not how concepts work. The game-play is boring because it's boring. 

5 minutes ago, Pop Guy said:

All klei had to do was rotate he around the theme of hunting and rifle, and the personality of Warbucks would remain with a unique and captivating gameplay.

Ok, so we do focus on the "Big Game Hunter" aspect. Give me some actual examples. "It would be good" is as empty as it gets.

6 minutes ago, Pop Guy said:

The community came up with ideas for better Warbucks and made it a "glass cannon" long before Wheeler's arrival (myself included).
There is still a mod that makes Warbucks a unique and exciting challenge.

I don't have much to say here without seeing the mod, so a link would be nice.

6 minutes ago, Pop Guy said:

Klei's choice to remove he remains questionable and unwise.

It's pretty simple. Take a look at Wilton or Waverly. A skeleton and a witch? Those are some very interesting ideas. There's no reason why they couldn't work in the game, but because those concepts got ax'd we got things like Webber and Wigfrid (timeline isn't exactly right, but you get the point). People are just getting hung up over Warbucks because they had a taste before they got ax'd, unlike the others.

Warbucks could very well have worked as a "Big Game Hunter", but it seemed Klei was gunning for an Explorer—hence the whole theme of Hamlet. The perks we got for Wheeler make that idea work, and simply wouldn't make sense on Warbucks—or rather, make more sense on Wheeler. 

It's just a fact of art. There's only so much more detail or redrawing that can be done before starting the piece over completely becomes the better option, especially if you have a better idea in mind.

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Roosev    1053
9 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

literally rush 3 or 4 relics for oincs and boom your sanity problems begone.

Eh, didn't really enjoy the gameplay either. But I've enjoyed the character himself.

Just decrease the sanity boost from the oincs and give him some actual down sides. Boom.

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Theukon-dos    2249
32 minutes ago, TheOnlyGuyEver said:

If a character being boring means it's completely hopeless and warrants removal rather than patching, then bye bye Walani.

 

And Wilson, and Wolfgang, and Wes.

 

Anyways, 

39 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

That's not how concepts work. The game-play is boring because it's boring. 

 

If something is boring, then make it not boring. That's what they did with Wilba, adding Werepig and RoG compatability, And that's what they're (attempting) to do with every character over in DST.

Quote

Ok, so we do focus on the "Big Game Hunter" aspect. Give me some actual examples. "It would be good" is as empty as it gets.

 

giving him a sanity boost from hunting big game, let him craft trophies out of boss drops that can be traded for special loot, give him a special rifle, let him gain extra meat from killing things, There's a good bit you can theoretically do with a hunter character.

Quote

I don't have much to say here without seeing the mod, so a link would be nice.

 

I'm guessing it's this one 

steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1669346270&searchtext=warbucks

I'm personally not a fan, but it's definitly a good starting point

Quote

It's pretty simple. Take a look at Wilton or Waverly. A skeleton and a witch? Those are some very interesting ideas. There's no reason why they couldn't work in the game, but because those concepts got ax'd we got things like Webber and Wigfrid (timeline isn't exactly right, but you get the point). People are just getting hung up over Warbucks because they had a taste before they got ax'd, unlike the others.

2

He had an enjoyable personality, He was featured in several promotional materials for Hamlet, and Never before had a character gotten the axe *after* they where offically added, meaning there was no previous precident for it.

Quote

Warbucks could very well have worked as a "Big Game Hunter", but it seemed Klei was gunning for an Explorer—hence the whole theme of Hamlet. The perks we got for Wheeler make that idea work, and simply wouldn't make sense on Warbucks—or rather, make more sense on Wheeler.

 

The compass wouldn't need any changing, The pewmatic horn could have been a clockwork/heirloom blunderbuss with the exact same functionality, The traveling light perk could have made sense, they would just need something to make up for the dodge. 

Quote

 It's just a fact of art. There's only so much more detail or redrawing that can be done before starting the piece over completely becomes the better option, especially if you have a better idea in mind.

 

I'm not sure what you're saying here, unless I missed something.

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Zeklo    17672

I don't want to get dragged into a discussion about whether or not Warbucks should have been removed.
I'm simply saying why he was removed—whether he should have been or not, or whether that applies to others.

I personally saw little reason for his removal, but he's gone. The end.
Klei's given there official word on the matter, and Wheeler has taken his spot.

It's a tragedy, but it's been like 3 months now. No reason to keep bashing Klei about it.

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pedregales    363
55 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

giving him a sanity boost from hunting big game, let him craft trophies out of boss drops that can be traded for special loot, give him a special rifle, let him gain extra meat from killing things, There's a good bit you can theoretically do with a hunter character.

Adding to this list: he could find koaleffant, vargs, and whales in less dirt piles/bubbles than usual; and, since it was added recently to DS Alone, he could tame beefalos more easily, or maybe increase their damage while he is mounted on them (but has a harder time keeping them tamed). Also can make him unable to be around bunnymen (because they can smell meat on his hands despite having none).

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inferjus4    978
15 hours ago, Zeklo said:

Ok, so we do focus on the "Big Game Hunter" aspect. Give me some actual examples. "It would be good" is as empty as it gets.

To make him more interesting Klei could give him a special blunderbuss or make this item exclusive to him. Maxwell also has starting items that are useless at the beginning of the game but useful later, so giving him it when spawning would not be a bad idea.
Also Theukon-dos' idea for exclusive relicts is pretty good, he could be collecting little relicts fragments when chiseling sculptures. And what about giving Warbucks a perk that let's him stack relicts?
Warbucks' would need a few downsided at this point, I just can not come up with any now tho.

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Ogrecakes    1904
3 hours ago, Pumkingthegreat said:

Would someone mind messaging me some of the racially incorrect things he said about other creatures

References to the East India company was a big one, which WAS removed pretty quickly.

Most of the speculated problem came from a single forum thread, talking about how Warbucks represents stereotypical British explorers/invaders, of which some (many) were really awful people. Because parody apparently isn't allowed to exist anymore. (and eternal entrapment in a harsh wilderness that will kill you over and over apparently isn't a fitting punishment for people """like""" Warbucks).


But Woodlegs is okay for some reason, because haha pirates are silly, not like they weren't stealing murdering rapists or anything.

And Woodie is okay, despite being one of many early 1900's lumber camp workers in Canada, who were responsible for deforestation and damage to indigenous lands... Wolfgang is okay despite being a stereotypical depiction of a dumb Russian body builder, or Willow who is a parody of Pyromaniacs... Wigfrid who roleplays as a Viking (comparable to pirates in terms of bad stuff they've done)...

No parodies or stereotyping jokes allowed, might offend people who don't exist anymore.

 

I would argue this is still on topic because OP asked about what info we have on Warbucks.

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pedregales    363
8 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

[...]

I would argue this is still on topic because OP asked about what info we have on Warbucks.

Gotta love that disclaimer notice.

EDIT: ok, sorry... v

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Ogrecakes    1904
1 minute ago, pedregales said:

Gotta love that disclaimer notice.

BRINGING UP MY DISCLAIMER NOTICE IS NOT PART OF THE THREAD

 

DON'T BRING THE MAN WITH THE SIGN DOWN ON US AGAIN

 

I CAN'T HANDLE THE SMUG WILSON ONE MORE TIME

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-Variant    5354
1 hour ago, Ogrecakes said:

BRINGING UP MY DISCLAIMER NOTICE IS NOT PART OF THE THREAD

 

DON'T BRING THE MAN WITH THE SIGN DOWN ON US AGAIN

 

I CAN'T HANDLE THE SMUG WILSON ONE MORE TIME

*Wooden sign noises.*

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Bluegeist    1625
12 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

Most of the speculated problem came from a single forum thread, talking about how Warbucks represents stereotypical British explorers/invaders, of which some (many) were really awful people. Because parody apparently isn't allowed to exist anymore. (and eternal entrapment in a harsh wilderness that will kill you over and over apparently isn't a fitting punishment for people """like""" Warbucks).

He was not a parody, it was a straight reference to the great white hunter archetype. He was just literally a great white hunter, who had "domestics" to handle dirty work, who considered his culture more advanced and others "barbaric" and "savage", and directly mentioned the East India Company. There was no hint of irony, exaggeration, fantasy, etc to offset the vile things he said and was. It's no wonder they changed his quotes so quickly (well before anyone made a thread talking about the writing). Looking at his latest speech file, it's much better. But after all that's happened, he leaves me feeling sour and I'm very glad he's gone. I'm glad they spent their precious time making Wormwood, Wagstaff and Wheeler instead.

Some of his old quotes for reference:

Spoiler

PIGCROWNHAT = "These beasts could benefit from my advanced cultural upbringing."

TAR = "I used to have domestics for dealing with this."

CARGOBOAT = "A ship worthy of the East India Company."

VOLCANO_ALTAR_TOWER = "Huzzah! An artifact of a barbaric culture."

And what they are now:

Spoiler

PIGCROWNHAT = "Never imagined I'd reach such a status!"

TAR = "I should prefer it if there were fossils buried within this."

CARGOBOAT = "A ship worthy of my captainship."

VOLCANO_ALTAR_TOWER = "Huzzah! An artifact of another culture."

 

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SouthTom    296
On 5/3/2019 at 5:22 PM, TheOnlyGuyEver said:

It's pretty hypocritical for Klei to remove an entire character for being boring while meanwhile they change Wilba to be more useful outside of Hamlet and insofar have regularly given Wheeler balance changes based on community feedback.

On 5/3/2019 at 6:32 PM, Zeklo said:

The concept was boring.

Wilba is a pig princess who is vulnerable to be cursed under the moon's light, there's a lot to work with there. Warbucks was what...? Seemed like a "Big Game Hunter" but was actually just a half-baked coin hoarder or something. His concept wasn't interesting.

 

But Wilba wasn't cursed when they introduced her, she was a normal princess. That was the whole point . She was pretty bland before adding the curse. Her rework made her into a character worth playing imo. She's even my favorite to play as now.

It is weird that they just scraped a character instead of just reworking him. He was a big part of the trailer after all. I didn't like playing him that much, he had a weird tan but he had a killer attack voice. They could have reworked him in many ways that would have fit his personality, like being able to set up shops for pigs( a la Moonlighter), pay villagers to help him gather resources, build mines from cave clefts and have pigs working them, etc. That I would have loved to see because I feel the economic aspect of Hamlet is pretty lacking.

Plus, I don't feel like a colonialist was a bad concept seeing how "dominating nature and other living beings" was already a big part of Don't Starve. Who never killed pigs for resources? Trick them to sacrifice their life in a pointless fight for you? Build a pig farm to doom them into slavery?

 

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Zeklo    17672
1 hour ago, SouthTom said:

But Wilba wasn't cursed when they introduced her, she was a normal princess. That was the whole point . She was pretty bland before adding the curse. Her rework made her into a character worth playing imo. She's even my favorite to play as now.

But she was always a pig. It was the obvious next step, and something a lot of people expected when she was first added.

"Explorer" is a lot more open ended. Which is great! It means there's a lot to work with, but also that nothing really stands out immediately.

Again though, I'm not trying to excuse Klei's decision. Clearly they made "Explorer" work with Wheeler. Even if her perks wouldn't fit quite as snug on Warbucks. I'm sure they could have figured things out if they chose to, but alas. 

1 hour ago, SouthTom said:

Plus, I don't feel like a colonialist was a bad concept seeing how "dominating nature and other living beings" was already a big part of Don't Starve. Who never killed pigs for resources? Trick them to sacrifice their life in a pointless fight for you? Build a pig farm to doom them into slavery?

I don't either. A direct mention of the East India Company might've been a bit much, but referring to pigs as primitive or barbaric? I'd say that's fair. I guess it just touched base a bit too closely to reality for some people.

Since no one really seems to be bothered about an entity known as "Them" ultimately enacting what became a genocide of the Ancient race contorting their very being into haunting shadows where death would be the ultimate form of mercy. #shrimplivesmatter

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inferjus4    978
7 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

I would argue this is still on topic because OP asked about what info we have on Warbucks.

Do not mind talking anything about Warbucks, this thread is no longer only about what happened to Warbucks but about his whole character.

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Ogrecakes    1904
12 hours ago, Bluegeist said:

He was not a parody, it was a straight reference to the great white hunter archetype. He was just literally a great white hunter, who had "domestics" to handle dirty work, who considered his culture more advanced and others "barbaric" and "savage", and directly mentioned the East India Company. There was no hint of irony, exaggeration, fantasy, etc to offset the vile things he said and was. It's no wonder they changed his quotes so quickly (well before anyone made a thread talking about the writing). Looking at his latest speech file, it's much better. But after all that's happened, he leaves me feeling sour and I'm very glad he's gone. I'm glad they spent their precious time making Wormwood, Wagstaff and Wheeler instead.

Some of his old quotes for reference:

  Hide contents

PIGCROWNHAT = "These beasts could benefit from my advanced cultural upbringing."

TAR = "I used to have domestics for dealing with this."

CARGOBOAT = "A ship worthy of the East India Company."

VOLCANO_ALTAR_TOWER = "Huzzah! An artifact of a barbaric culture."

And what they are now:

  Hide contents

PIGCROWNHAT = "Never imagined I'd reach such a status!"

TAR = "I should prefer it if there were fossils buried within this."

CARGOBOAT = "A ship worthy of my captainship."

VOLCANO_ALTAR_TOWER = "Huzzah! An artifact of another culture."

 

Thanks for the direct quotes.

However, I would argue that looking like a stereotypical explorer with a large mustache and being called 'Warbucks' counts as parody.

Not to mention the fact that it's okay to have a villain? Maxwell by all accounts is a horrible person, who has eternally ****** the lives of at least 10 people, killing them literally millions of times, who also looks down upon them and uncivilized culture, but I guess he gets a pass?

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inferjus4    978
19 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

Thanks for the direct quotes.

However, I would argue that looking like a stereotypical explorer with a large mustache and being called 'Warbucks' counts as parody.

Not to mention the fact that it's okay to have a villain? Maxwell by all accounts is a horrible person, who has eternally ****** the lives of at least 10 people, killing them literally millions of times, who also looks down upon them and uncivilized culture, but I guess he gets a pass?

The problem may be that Warbucks refers to people that really existed. I still think it is not a bad thing to have a colonizer in the game, because the history is a part of our lifes and should not be forgotten.

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Meruem1    35

Nothing wrong with having an evil character in the game imo. If a bad person is thrown into the wilderness, they will try to survive too. You get to play from their perspective, and that's the interesting part.

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inferjus4    978
2 minutes ago, Meruem1 said:

Nothing wrong with having an evil character in the game imo. If a bad person is thrown into the wilderness, they will try to survive too. You get to play from their perspective, and that's the interesting part.

Unfortunately, Klei thinks different. BUT WE WILL FIGHT WARBUCKS BACK!!!

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inferjus4    978
3 minutes ago, SkylordElberich said:

Oh, boy. Here we go again!

But for real: deleting whole character instead of reworking it? Klei could use his assets to save a lot of time and create a new character with it. I think it is the best compromise for everyone who liked and didn't like Warbucks.

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Bluegeist    1625
45 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

Thanks for the direct quotes.

However, I would argue that looking like a stereotypical explorer with a large mustache and being called 'Warbucks' counts as parody.

Not to mention the fact that it's okay to have a villain? Maxwell by all accounts is a horrible person, who has eternally ****** the lives of at least 10 people, killing them literally millions of times, who also looks down upon them and uncivilized culture, but I guess he gets a pass?

Well, physically he is a caricature. I was talking about the writing lacking exaggeration.

Also, tbh why are we arguing about whether a great white hunter/colonizer should be in the game? That aspect of him was already sanitized, as you can see from the quotes I referenced. This character you are trying to defend was already gone. The problem was Klei's disinterest in trying to make even the sanitized Warbucks work. They clearly tried, but they decided to move on to better things. There's really nothing else to it.

10 minutes ago, inferjus4 said:

But for real: deleting whole character instead of reworking it? Klei could use his assets to save a lot of time and create a new character with it. I think it is the best compromise for everyone who liked and didn't like Warbucks.

He's not deleted, his files are still in the game and is playable with console commands. They are still updating his quotes, adding all the new stuff. That's not a bad deal tbh, they could have removed his files completely but they didn't. Console players are left out though

And like I said, they already tried to make a "new character" with his assets. From a great white hunter to an affluent explorer. But Klei still didn't like working on him, so they retired him. It is early access after all, big changes are to be expected, and if it means a better product in the end then so be it.

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inferjus4    978
3 minutes ago, Bluegeist said:

He's not deleted, his files are still in the game and is playable with console commands. They are still updating his quotes, adding all the new stuff. That's not a bad deal tbh, they could have removed his files completely but they didn't. Console players are left out though

And like I said, they already tried to make a "new character" with his assets. From a great white hunter to an affluent explorer. But Klei still didn't like working on him, so they retired him. It is early access after all, big changes are to be expected, and if it means a better product in the end then so be it.

 Devs still update his quotes? That is interesting, I hope they won't stop on that.

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