Woodie review and ideas for rework.

[Gabriel_Dreyer]

10 hours ago, WoodieMain45684 said:

I like not having to worry about how long I stay in beaver mode. I sometimes get a idea how no sanity penalty beaver (during beaver form) would be like whenever the shadow creatures bug out and don't spawn. Let's just say its a nice change of pace for a stressful character. Nice ideas.

Thank ya!

 

 

[FreyaMaluk]

9 hours ago, Toros said:

While I appreciate the creativity in this thread, many of the suggestions don’t solve Woodie’s core issues or are a technical issue to deal with.

I’ve already written a mod that reworks Woodie while pulling elements from both his single player and DST implementations and the feedback I’ve gotten from Woodie players thus far has been positive.  It’s a paradigm shift because instead of gaining log meter when gnawing, you lose it.  Passive log meter loss in human form is eliminated.  Werebeaver can plant pinecones, has no sanity drain, and can 1 gnaw stumps in addition to having DS combat stats.  I restored the ability of Werebeaver to use the map.

If you looked at all the changes I made separately, you’d think that he’d be OP, but that isn’t remotely the case.

With my rework, Werebeaver is a decent combat form and a good gathering form but will always cost logs to operate, and there’s no way to avoid that cost or become human again without logs.  He’s competitive with Max at wood gathering and can use wood instead of tools to gather everything else.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=888197520

this looks pretty much around what most people want for woodie...

I agree core issues should take precedence..

[Toros]

3 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

this looks pretty much around what most people want for woodie...

I agree core issues should take precedence..

My previous post was already long enough, but I wanted to address some suggestions that I don’t think solve his core issues, and those that are impractical from a technical standpoint.

1) Anything that only makes Woodie better at chopping wood

Woodie is already far better at wood gathering than anyone but Max, and can easily gather more wood than even a team can practically use.  He already competes for this niche with Bearger and pig minions, and it’s not that essential of a niche to begin with.  Max isn’t better than Woodie because he’s better at gathering wood, it’s because he can do so much more on top of that.

2) Replacing passible tiles with impassible ones

While I love the idea of a bridge/beaver dam construction, making impassible tiles passible is messy from a technical standpoint and people who have attempted similar things before ran into major headaches.

[FreyaMaluk]

3 minutes ago, Toros said:

making impassible tiles passible is messy from a technical standpoint and people who have attempted similar things before ran into major headaches.

while difficult.. this might not be impossible... I think Klei can come up with a clever idea for this... 

and I still believe it would be so awesome for Woodie to be able to do this

[4 Da LOLs]

40 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

while difficult.. this might not be impossible... I think Klei can come up with a clever idea for this... 

and I still believe it would be so awesome for Woodie to be able to do this

you still haven't answered my questions from before

[FreyaMaluk]

Just now, 4 Da LOLs said:

you still haven't answered my questions from before

I already did... linking two islands that are apart from each other.. something like this.. more or less

 

[4 Da LOLs]

Just now, FreyaMaluk said:

I already did... linking two islands that are apart from each other.. something like this.. more or less

so if the world lacks such a landmass they would be pointless?

[FreyaMaluk]

Just now, 4 Da LOLs said:

so if the world lacks such a landmass they would be pointless?

not pointless.. Woodie would make them reachable.. like Wortox can... 

but Woodie would need a lot of materials and probably help from other survivors to build it... that could balance it out.. like a large structure only at least 2 or more could build...

you'l have to ask the person who suggested this in the first place for more details.. I just thought it was very interesting...

@Queron81 was the first one suggesting this if I'm not mistaken

 

[4 Da LOLs]

Just now, FreyaMaluk said:

not pointless.. Woodie would make them reachable.. like Wortox can... 

but Woodie would need a lot of materials and probably help from other survivors to build it... that could balance it out.. like a large structure only at least 2 or more could build...

you'l have to ask the person who suggested this in the first place for more details.. I just thought it was very interesting...

@Queron81 was the first one suggesting this if I'm not mistaken

 

i say again if the world lacks two super close landmasses then the bridge will have no point based only on terrain generation alone

also what happens if its destroyed while someone is walking on it?

[Toros]

38 minutes ago, 4 Da LOLs said:

i say again if the world lacks two super close landmasses then the bridge will have no point based only on terrain generation alone

also what happens if its destroyed while someone is walking on it?

This is one of those messy technical details that would need to get sorted out before you could properly implement a bridge.

[FreyaMaluk]

51 minutes ago, Toros said:

This is one of those messy technical details that would need to get sorted out before you could properly implement a bridge.

If the Devs wanna consider this in the first place I think they can figure out the technical aspect of it. 

[Queron81]

4 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

while difficult.. this might not be impossible... I think Klei can come up with a clever idea for this...

Maybe it could be done with an action, like cklicking on the bridge and the character is passing it in an animation, similar like Wortox teleport, just without disappearing and slower. So the tiles don't have to be done passible. There also wouldn't be a problem if the bridge got destroyed when someone is passing it, as the animation just would be finished.

3 hours ago, 4 Da LOLs said:

i say again if the world lacks two super close landmasses then the bridge will have no point based only on terrain generation alone

also what happens if its destroyed while someone is walking on it?

You always have points with relative close landmasses, even if they didn't always offer a good potential shortcut (bridges could also be 2-3 tiles longer, what would need much more ressources, but rise the chance to build a good shortcut). Maybe the map generation could be adjusted a bit, so the chance for good spots for shortcuts would be higher. In some games I hade a few random real shortcuts (landmasses are connected far away from the center). Once I joined a server, where a really great base was relative close to the portal/center, but you had to walk a lot to reach it, because there wasn't a connection (sometimes the spawn biome is relative seperated to one or two sides). In such cases a bridge would be great.

For your second question: see my previous answer.

[4 Da LOLs]

45 minutes ago, Queron81 said:

relative close landmasses, even if they didn't always offer a good potential shortcut

exactly it doesn't always

 

45 minutes ago, Queron81 said:

(bridges could also be 2-3 tiles longer, what would need much more ressources,

try stockpiling wood as him thats the problem my syrup idea was to counter his already draining log meter so he doesn't have to eat away his stocks overtime its meant to solve a current Woodie problem

 

45 minutes ago, Queron81 said:

but rise the chance to build a good shortcut

again a chance

 

45 minutes ago, Queron81 said:

Maybe the map generation could be adjusted a bit, so the chance for good spots for shortcuts would be higher.

it would be near impossible for the world generation to know whats a good shortcut and a bad one plus its a character rework not a world one

 

and again its really out of nowhere just one guy even with the beaver dam reference is extremely loose

if bridges were all character i could see it but for Woodie alone nah i mean at least if the world is formed in a way that doesn't allow bridges you didn't pick a character for nothing

[Canis]

Honestly, my only real hope for the Woodie update is to have the Werebeaver's appearance change depending on what skin Woodie is using.
(It would also make Woodie's normally garbage skins actually decent for once)

[Terra B Welch]

Personally I honestly think for the werebeaver it should be this.

Damage: 51 to Mobs, 27.2 to Players.
Armor: 80% vs Mobs, 25% vs Players.

That's just how I always thought of that particular bit of balancing. It was a nerf soely due to PVP reasons, just keep the nerfs for PVP and return the original damage and armor stats for PVE

[Gabriel_Dreyer]

6 hours ago, Terra M Welch said:

Personally I honestly think for the werebeaver it should be this.

Damage: 51 to Mobs, 27.2 to Players.
Armor: 80% vs Mobs, 25% vs Players.

Yes! I totally agree, mate!

[FreyaMaluk]

6 hours ago, Terra M Welch said:

Personally I honestly think for the werebeaver it should be this.

Damage: 51 to Mobs, 27.2 to Players.
Armor: 80% vs Mobs, 25% vs Players.

That's just how I always thought of that particular bit of balancing. It was a nerf soely due to PVP reasons, just keep the nerfs for PVP and return the original damage and armor stats for PVE

I would go a bit lower to mobs maybe even 60% armor.. at least above 60% would be a good place where most people can be happy with I think

[Terra B Welch]

34 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I would go a bit lower to mobs maybe even 60% armor.. at least above 60% would be a good place where most people can be happy with I think

That's still basically putting a grass suit on woodie, with only 150hp 60% won't do much imo. Werebeaver would still be useless imo.

[FreyaMaluk]

3 minutes ago, Terra M Welch said:

That's still basically putting a grass suit on woodie, with only 150hp 60% won't do much imo. Werebeaver would still be useless imo.

ik it's grass suit value... but I wouldn't go to call it "useless"... more than he has rn that is

someone suggested an increase on hp around +50hp more.. so that would work too

[_Ellat_]

I think if he would get more logs from a single tree he would be a better option than maxwell +2 logs from a tree +1 from a stump maybe

[-Variant]

For the people discussing the bridge thing, it's already been talked about time and time before.

I just don't think it'll happen, they'd have to really rework borders, and how they'd even add it is on the table.

It could happen, bit it's a stretch, here is a concept made by MF99K from long ago.

[Obviousclone]

Just delete the werebeaver ghost concept. I've watched so many people play DST and every single time one of them tries out woodie, and they die as werebeaver and become a beaver ghost, they hate it. It's not fun for anyone. You die as a beaver, and then you rez and then you immediately go insane, potentially being killed by sanity monsters and being put back into ghost beaver, and everyone I've watched (new players and old) has claimed that it's stupid. I know that some artist put work into drawing it, I know the devs spent money on the art and spent time coding it in, but it's plain and simple not fun. You laugh once, the first time you see the different ghost and then you realize immediately after upon resurrecting that you are still stuck in the form and how bad it is. It makes you want to avoid being a beaver ever (or at least, avoid being beaver in anything that isn't passively cutting trees) and in many cases I've seen those people just swear off from ever playing or touching woodie ever again. That's how bad of a mechanic ghost beaver is.

[Mario384]

I'm extremely biased, but I just want the beaver buffed.  I can make infinite threads on it, but in the end it's up to Klei to get the job done.

[minespatch]

5 minutes ago, Mario384 said:

I'm extremely biased, but I just want the beaver buffed.  I can make infinite threads on it, but in the end it's up to Klei to get the job done.

If Bernie can be buffed, why not the beaver?

[Well-met]

game option to disable lucy whining and/or her talk sound

 

all i need