ONI Biology thread deleted?

[Grimgaw]

This: https://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/89984-oni-biology/ was the link.

[Junksteel]

What!?

Saturnus just sent me this link last week. I was clever enough to not read everything when I could taking for granted I'd be able to consult it whenever needed.

[fancyrat]

A lot of the information was out of date anyways. It would be good to test the breeding mechanics and the status effects again.

[Gracefulmuse]

OH NO! I use that thread all the time! 

If none has it by the time I get home from work, I will check my computers cache and see if I can find a copy of it at least. 

I have this for now. Its missing some information and images, but maybe someone can fill in the rest. 

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:AcgmXPTHx0kJ:https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89984-oni-biology/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[Cantouki]

It's the best thread in the forum!

[mathmanican]

R9MX4 (FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX) is the author of this thread.  I think R9MX4 has decided to abandon ONI and not just leave the forum's but also delete/hide everything possible. Bug posts have disappeared too. I'm not sure why R9MX4 left, but maybe as a community we could leave a big thank you, just in class R9MX4 comes back. R9MX4's contribution has been amazing and wonderful. 

How do we leave a big thank you?  Simple. Head to the profile page. 

• https://forums.kleientertainment.com/profile/1059912-fixbugfixbugfix/

Open up 20 or so of R9MX4's former posts, and put a like. If 20 of us do this, that will be 400 likes if/when R9MX4 logs in again. 

[Gracefulmuse]

Do you think his leaving might be due to that "plz fix physics" thread? He did pop a single comment on there that seemed sort of... annoyed? I'm not sure the English word for it, sorry 

Hopefully he comes back though, I really enjoyed a lot of his posts. I shall do as mathmanican says and like some of his stuff as a thank you. 

[Yunru]

19 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

R9MX4 (FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX) is the author of this thread.  I think R9MX4 has decided to abandon ONI and not just leave the forum's but also delete/hide everything possible. Bug posts have disappeared too. I'm not sure why R9MX4 left, but maybe as a community we could leave a big thank you, just in class R9MX4 comes back. R9MX4's contribution has been amazing and wonderful. 

I would of been with you, but hiding knowledge is the worst of offences in my books, so... no.

[mathmanican]

1 hour ago, Gracefulmuse said:

Do you think his leaving might be due to that "plz fix physics" thread?

Oh, he's been annoyed for quite a while.  The day I put up the "Gaseous Element Converter 2.0 (Philospher's Stone)" thread, he "liked" and then "unliked" right away.  His posts after that point have been annoyance at the bugs in ONI that have not been fixed for over a year. He found them all long ago, and I've spent the last few months trying to bring them to light and show how ludicrous these bugs can make ONI.  The name change "FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX" seems like a pretty clear reason.

I do worry that he feels like his work is not appreciated.  The devs haven't help there at all (hence retaliation).  I do think we as a community can help with that. R9MX4 has done a lot of amazing work.

2 hours ago, Yunru said:

I would of been with you, but hiding knowledge is the worst of offences in my books, so... no.

Someone spends 1.5 years of their life trying to improve something. Their work is largely ignored, and no changes are made by the devs, despite code snippets being shown with exactly the spots where bugs are occurring, and exactly how to fix them. In a fit of frustration, they delete several things as retaliation. Someone is hurt. They didn't kill anyone, rather they removed things that they felt were not appreciated. 

Is the solution to turn our back and walk away?  Or could we express our thanks for all their work?

[Grimgaw]

39 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

Someone spends 1.5 years of their life trying to improve something. Their work is largely ignored, and no changes are made by the devs, despite code snippets being shown with exactly the spots where bugs are occurring, and exactly how to fix them. In a fit of frustration, they delete several things as retaliation. Someone is hurt.

I think you hit it on the head here. 

I personally gave up on reporting any bugs after I realized that devs don't even bother acknowledging the reports. It's a shame that devs are taciturn.

[Yunru]

1 hour ago, mathmanican said:

Someone spends 1.5 years of their life trying to improve something. Their work is largely ignored, and no changes are made by the devs, despite code snippets being shown with exactly the spots where bugs are occurring, and exactly how to fix them. In a fit of frustration, they delete several things as retaliation. Someone is hurt. They didn't kill anyone, rather they removed things that they felt were not appreciated. 

"Someone isn't making the situation better when they have a responsibility to do so, therefore I shall make the situation worse by removing my contributions to fixing it" is just petty. Understandable, but petty.

[Guest]

google cached page

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:AcgmXPTHx0kJ:https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89984-oni-biology/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[mathmanican]

1 hour ago, Yunru said:

is just petty. Understandable, but petty.

I completely agree.

However, from his posts over many months, and talking about doing things with friends (speaking how my son would speak), I have in my mind the image a teenager. I could be completely wrong (maybe he's a cranky 60 yr old who sits on the porch with a rifle to scare trespassers). However, since my mental image is that of a highly educated, amazing youth, I'm ready to bend over backwards and overlook this petty offense.  

[blash365]

2 hours ago, mathmanican said:

R9MX4 has done a lot of amazing work.

Yes, he has. Still not a valid reason to act like a diva.

2 hours ago, mathmanican said:

Someone spends 1.5 years of their life trying to improve something.

This is called a hobby. We all are doing that. Some more than others, some better than others. Still it is something that we do because we are enjoying it. If we are not enjoying it, then we should take a timeout.

2 hours ago, mathmanican said:

Their work is largely ignored, and no changes are made by the devs, despite code snippets being shown with exactly the spots where bugs are occurring, and exactly how to fix them.

I did not dig too deep into the bug reports, but since none of us have knowledge of the code, there is no telling in whether the "code snippets" would have fixed the bugs (let alone not indroduced new ones). It is always great to have reproducable bug reports as a developer. But at some point you need to make a judgement call of whether fixing a bug is worth it.

I am not saying that klei has made that call yet, there is still one big update to ship and bug fixes afterwards have also been announced. But even if they are not fixing it, they might actually have a good reason for it. As frustrating as it might be.

2 hours ago, mathmanican said:

Is the solution to turn our back and walk away?  Or could we express our thanks for all their work?

I would be baffled if he didnt receive quite a few thankings for his work when he posted it here. Destructive attitude doesnt award thank-you notes though.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, blash365 said:

I would be baffled if he didnt receive quite a few thankings for his work when he posted it here. Destructive attitude doesnt award thank-you notes though.

The reason for the removal is ambiguous? If the remaining work is still valuable to other players, ty's are always good imo.

[JohnFrancis]

Just noticed it (biology page) was missing yesterday, did not know the back story. R9MX4 will be missed, that critter page has been accessed by me who knows how many times and made playing ONI easier and by extension more enjoyable. Glancing through their previous posts they helped out liberally with accurate information, complementary traits that are all to rare. We lost a valuable member of the community today which makes me sad.

Don't care if they deleted/removed all the old contributions, when you add it all up they did more to help other players than most and that is all that counts in my book.

Goodbye R9MX4 you will be missed, also please come back any time you like, no one here would be childish enough to give you any grief.

[mathmanican]

2 hours ago, Grimgaw said:

I personally gave up on reporting any bugs after I realized that devs don't even bother acknowledging the reports. It's a shame that devs are taciturn.

The sheer volume of bug reports is probably the reason why. They got overwhelmed. The game got too popular (not a bad thing). 

This is why I decided to go on a marketing ploy to bring serious huge flaws more to light. Hyperbole often works, so I make stupid things like an infinite power loop, liquid duplication, and matter conversion. I like @Lilalaunekuh's recent thread on "minor" fixes.  I think organizing the sheer volume of stuff they have to look at will help. Anything we can do to condense and simplify the sheer volume of reports I hope can help.

I'm just sad that R9MX4 left. Farewell friend. 

[Oozinator]

45 minutes ago, blash365 said:

 But even if they are not fixing it, they might actually have a good reason for it.

Bugs have to be fixed. ONI is a bugfest now.
There is no reason, to not fix bad code.

[mathmanican]

1 minute ago, Oozinator said:

Bugs have to be fixed. ONI is a bugfest now.
There is no reason, to not fix bad code.

Ah @Oozinator, you can always bring a smile to every conversation.  Memes.  I need more memes.  

Hey @JoeW, is there any way to resurrect all the threads that R9MX4 (FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX) has deleted in the last few days. I know that these threads are just "hidden" on your end.

[Oozinator]

6 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

Ah @Oozinator, you can always bring a smile to every conversation.  Memes.  I need more memes.  

I am 102% serious!

[pacovf]

R9MX4 erased the biology thread some time last week, definitely before the preview. The loss of those tables has effectively put all my ranching plans on hold.

[Senteliks]

3 hours ago, mathmanican said:

 However, since my mental image is that of a highly educated, amazing youth, I'm ready to bend over backwards and overlook this petty offense.  

And this is sort of problem. It's not all about what you know, or how skilled you are in particular area. You also need to learn how to be mindful and tolerant. What he has done for 1.5 doesn't sounds any different from how you are treated in workplace as software engineer (especially, when you are junior), you fix other's people mess, you get assigned payload of work to be completed that is by normal human standards insane, you have to tolerate head in the clouds managers/designers/ .... And then there is always those that are touching a sky with a nose that you want to smack in the face, despite being your senior and having decades of experience.

If he snaps like this, here. Then he really has a bright future in the real world.

Edit: I am also sure this doesn't apply only for software engineers, it does in similar ways for other professions.

[M.C.]

5 hours ago, mathmanican said:

Someone spends 1.5 years of their life trying to improve something. Their work is largely ignored, and no changes are made by the devs, despite code snippets being shown with exactly the spots where bugs are occurring, and exactly how to fix them. In a fit of frustration, they delete several things as retaliation. Someone is hurt. They didn't kill anyone, rather they removed things that they felt were not appreciated.

Honestly, I am not surprised he's decided to leave and delete his posts. Saddened, but not surprised at all.

[Gurgel]

5 hours ago, Grimgaw said:

I personally gave up on reporting any bugs after I realized that devs don't even bother acknowledging the reports. It's a shame that devs are taciturn.

I would say I get responses appropriate for urgency. I have had anything from basically immediately (a few hours) to never. 

Of course I do know how hard it is to fix a thing in a complex piece of software without breaking 10 other things and hence may have more restrained expectations.

[mathmanican]

56 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

Unhiding would be the last insult to his will.

If the only thing gone were his contributions, I would 100% agree here. However, we are encouraged to contribute to other peoples posts, rather than start our own threads, when something is already being discussed. Because of this, are threads communal property? 

As a prime example is the ONI Biology post, consisting of 6 pages of comments from the entire community.  Giving one person the power to delete that thread, which tons of people poured effort into, seems wrong. Letting a person delete their individual contributions is completely appropriate.  Deleting all additions by others, hmm... I don't think that is right.

I have poured my efforts into adding links to bug reports (posted by R9MX4), so that the devs can condense and link together facts about these bugs. The last thing I wanted to do was add extra bloat to their already massive list of bugs. Now those links (took months to gather) are gone. I guess it would have been better to make my own bug report and mass produce already listed stuff???  No.

So is the message, "Don't contribute to other people's stuff. Make your own as other people can easily delete everything you contribute?"  This breaks up a community. It's the wrong message to send. Those are my thoughts.