Miserable immunity on preview branch

[Zarquan]

Does anyone know the current effect of miserable on the preview branch?  My dupes haven't absorbed any germs, so I can't see any tooltips, but the debuff still says -15% immunity gain.

[Gurgel]

As far as I can see, consumed germs have been removed. I think a dupe has a probability of getting sick each time they come in contact with germs. Immunity is probably a factor in the probability. I think they can get sick at 100% immunity. And they can now have multiple medical problems at the same time.

[Sasza22]

So is the new system RNG based? Can they get randomly sick from one germ if you are unlucky? Does the amount of germs they consume now matter in any way? So many questions.

[malloc]

19 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

So is the new system RNG based? Can they get randomly sick from one germ if you are unlucky? Does the amount of germs they consume now matter in any way? So many questions.

I think it might be.  I had barely cracked a couple of slime tiles in the first ten cycles and one of my dupes (dedicated hamster wheel operator so he wasn't even the one digging or hauling the stuff!) got slimelung.  I checked the germ overlay and there was zero detectable airborne slimelung but there were a couple of tiny polluted oxygen tiles floating around and that was enough to get him.  Recovery takes forever (nominally it started saying over 7 cycles but he gets out of the med bed often and even works at times so it's been almost 20 cycles now and he's down to about 1 cycle remaining).

[SixbySix]

Make the new med bed and some intermediate cure.  The doctor cures him of slimelung immediately.

[goboking]

I actually thought the disease/immunity system in place was a well-designed one, and I felt we were lacking a few more diseases and a doctor job to nicely round everything out.  Admittedly, I haven't had the time to put this new system through its paces, but my initial reaction is that it's a step in the wrong direction.

I'm glad to finally be getting doctors, and I'm glad that our doctors will have work to keep them busy.  But I don't like the idea of unavoidable sicknesses^[1].  Removing the counterplays to Food Poisoning and Slimelung forces us to be reactive rather than proactive in our colony healthcare.  A better way to keep doctors busy, in my humble opinion, would have been periodic checkups for our dupes which could have granted them the medical equivalent of the Engineer's Tuneup buff (boosted their stats or productivity for three cycles or so) or boosted immunity regeneration, meaning players who play with Miserable Immunity wouldn't be as reliant on Vitamin Chew production to keep their colonies shipshape.

[1]  If an unavoidable sickness was still deemed necessary then something analogous to the common cold would have worked.  It could have slowed stamina recovery, caused sleep-interrupting sneezing, and been spread through sneezing and by contact with tiles, buildings, food, etc (which hand-washing could have curtailed).  Slimelung could have then remained the debilitating and potentially lethal disease it was originally conceptualized to be.

[Junksteel]

9 minutes ago, goboking said:

I actually thought the disease/immunity system in place was a well-designed one, and I felt we were lacking a few more diseases and a doctor job to nicely round everything out.  Admittedly, I haven't had the time to put this new system through its paces, but my initial reaction is that it's a step in the wrong direction.

I'm glad to finally be getting doctors, and I'm glad that our doctors will have work to keep them busy.  But I don't like the idea of unavoidable sicknesses^[1].  Removing the counterplays to Food Poisoning and Slimelung forces us to be reactive rather than proactive in our colony healthcare.  A better way to keep doctors busy, in my humble opinion, would have been periodic checkups for our dupes which could have granted them the medical equivalent of the Engineer's Tuneup buff (boosted their stats or productivity for three cycles or so) or boosted immunity regeneration, meaning players who play with Miserable Immunity wouldn't be as reliant on Vitamin Chew production to keep their colonies shipshape.

[1]  If an unavoidable sickness was still deemed necessary then something analogous to the common cold would have worked.  It could have slowed stamina recovery, caused sleep-interrupting sneezing, and been spread through sneezing and by contact with tiles, buildings, food, etc (which hand-washing could have curtailed).  Slimelung could have then remained the debilitating and potentially lethal disease it was originally conceptualized to be.

Nothing to add. I like your idea a lot. Hope more people see this and give their thoughts.

[Zarquan]

I like the change.  Germs are a much larger threat now, even in trace amounts. 

1 hour ago, goboking said:

But I don't like the idea of unavoidable sicknesses^[1]. 

Sickness is still completely avoidable.  My dupes in my new base haven't absorbed a single germ yet and I can build exosuits now, so slimelung is avoidable.

[Sasza22]

I feel weird about this change. Before it was too easy to deal with disease but now it seems like a sphisticated and robust system got replaced by a clunky one we got no control over. Before we knew exactly what is going on. Now we get a random disease out of nowhere that we can`t reliably control unless our base is 100% sterile.

I feel like we lost some of the control over the game. I don`t like that feeling.

[CodexDraco]

4 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

I feel like we lost some of the control over the game. I don`t like that feeling.

What control specifically did we lose in this update?

[Gurgel]

13 hours ago, malloc said:

Recovery takes forever (nominally it started saying over 7 cycles but he gets out of the med bed often and even works at times so it's been almost 20 cycles now and he's down to about 1 cycle remaining).

The "forever" is a bug. I reported it and it apparently was fixed in the last hotfix.

[malloc]

1 hour ago, Gurgel said:

The "forever" is a bug. I reported it and it apparently was fixed in the last hotfix.

Indeed it was.  Unfortunately now you can ignore slimelung altogether even more than you could pre-QOL3.  They are just walking wounded for 3.7 cycles but still able to work at slightly reduced capacity.  No beds, pills or doctors required.

[Sasza22]

10 hours ago, CodexDraco said:

What control specifically did we lose in this update?

Previously i could move to areas with low or modearate amounts of germs with no risk but dupes would get sick in areas with large amounts. Yes it was too easy at times but i could semi control the amount of germs each dupe hosts by restricting access.

Now i can`t do any of that. Minor amounts of germs hanging around in the base can make a dupe sick. I feel helpless against that. I guess maybe it`s not that bad but i just hate losing control to RNG.

[pacovf]

It seemed like the devs want us to build infrastructure to deal with sick dupes, so prevention should be a lot harder than before. We have to make pills and doctor stations now, even on regular difficulties. It should be much harder to keep our dupes perfectly healthy.

[Mariilyn]

11 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

Now i can`t do any of that. Minor amounts of germs hanging around in the base can make a dupe sick. I feel helpless against that. I guess maybe it`s not that bad but i just hate losing control to RNG.

Exposed dupes don't get sick that much often and slimelung is more benign right now. Sick dupes get some athletic debuff, coughing and wheezing but they can be left untreated. I've got 3-4 cases in 40 cycles in a slimelung infected colony on miserable. RNG is fine, if at least the probability of getting slimelung is affected by the amount of germs in circulation. It's still very possible to avoid diseases with good practices.

[beowulf2010]

1 hour ago, Mariilyn said:

Exposed dupes don't get sick that much often and slimelung is more benign right now. Sick dupes get some athletic debuff, coughing and wheezing but they can be left untreated. I've got 3-4 cases in 40 cycles in a slimelung infected colony on miserable. RNG is fine, if at least the probability of getting slimelung is affected by the amount of germs in circulation. It's still very possible to avoid diseases with good practices.

Not that I play on miserable, but this has been my experience as well. I got a bit impatient and dug out a long hallway through slime, forgetting that I don't have a janitor dupe at the moment. Just 1 dupe caught slime lung and he wasn't even my main miner that was in the hallway the most. 

Once we have a balance of preventative medicine giving "immunity" to certain levels of germs, finalizing the doctors, and giving diseases/germs another pass, I think we'll be in a good spot. 

[brucemo]

What is "intermediate cure" made out of and where is it made? I do not see it in the apothecary list and it doesn't make sense that I'd need to make an advanced station to get it.

[Mariilyn]

2 minutes ago, brucemo said:

What is "intermediate cure" made out of and where is it made?

In the apothecary, with 1 kg phosphorite and 1 balm lily flower.

There's also an advance cure made from 1k tungsten and 1 sun nymph egg. It's supposed to be for "severe ailments".

[brucemo]

Thank you. I hadn't "discovered" balm lilly yet. I had a suspicion that's what it was.

[goboking]

3 minutes ago, Mariilyn said:

There's also an advance cure made from 1k tungsten and 1 sun nymph egg. It's supposed to be for "severe ailments".

Cure the patient by poisoning them?  It's crazy, but it just might work.

[Sasza22]

7 hours ago, beowulf2010 said:

Not that I play on miserable, but this has been my experience as well. I got a bit impatient and dug out a long hallway through slime, forgetting that I don't have a janitor dupe at the moment. Just 1 dupe caught slime lung and he wasn't even my main miner that was in the hallway the most. 

This is what i mean. Previuosly i kenw that the dupe getting the most exposure to germs will get sick first unless there was some trait modifiers or vitamin chews. Now i get one dupe exposed and another will get sick at random. I don`t mean it`s too easy or too hard. It`s too random.

I appreciate that now it`s harder to avoid so that an entire tech path is no longer useless. I like the fact that they added new drugs and made the entire thing more interesting. I like that it`s being worked on. I`m just getting that Hearthstone vibe where i lose the game all of a sudden to a random effect that either wins the game or backfires hard. Guess i`m just overreacting.

I`ll wait for the live version to hit and then complain (or not).

[Sebastiangperez]

Playing in a regular default new world, my dupes immune system always stay at 100%

The game is broken. 

 

[M.C.]

I got careless in my new game and ended up having a slimelung cloud covering half my base. In the past, this would have been a game-ending event. This time around, I had two dupes sick with slimelung and... that's it. They recovered on their own; I didn't even notice those infections until they were almost gone.

I don't think I like how easy it is to ignore the new diseases.

[chemie]

17 minutes ago, M.C. said:

I got careless in my new game and ended up having a slimelung cloud covering half my base. In the past, this would have been a game-ending event. This time around, I had two dupes sick with slimelung and... that's it. They recovered on their own; I didn't even notice those infections until they were almost gone.

I don't think I like how easy it is to ignore the new diseases.

Agree.  I think they made disease even more ignorable but at least before it made sense instead of random sorry this dupe is now going to get a minor nerf for 20 cycles that you can ignore anyway.

[Junksteel]

2 hours ago, Sebastiangperez said:

Playing in a regular default new world, my dupes immune system always stay at 100%

The game is broken. 

 

But notice the immune system was removed. Even if you have the visual display yet, the system isn't there anymore. That's why it will be at 100% all the time.

I prefer slimelung to be deadlier and less random.