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BOT Tuja

Your Character Balance Ideas

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Neu7ral    1190

-Give Maxwell Minions the ability to use armor/helmet and change their AI.

-Reduce WX-78 max stats and reduce required gears to achieve max level. 300HP, 250HG, 250ST would be good.

 

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Obviousclone    136

Instead of Winona get's a free hit from darkness, she should just have a bigger map reveal radius during darkness (better exploration for night time and cave darkness).

Still fits into the story of "Winona came here looking for her Charlie".

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Sinister_Fang    9351
6 hours ago, Lakurius said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

Shadow duelists already are super strong cuz they allow you to do the fastest and cheapest bq kill : ( fight me >: (

 

You have yet to give any explanation on how do do this. And even if it's possible, they're useless for everything else outside of farming nightmare fuel. So no, they are not "super strong". They're barely any better then a normal spider...

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Monkey Cups    535

Some advice with regards to rebalancing:

Don't.

No, seriously, don't.

A few of the characters have already been nerfed into oblivion compared to single player. I've seen where the constant rebalancing rabbit hole goes. That's how we get stuck with games like Primal Carnage: Extinction where pretty much every patch is a rebalance and no one is ever happy. If anything needs to change do it once and then never touch it again.

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Serph    470

Wendy:
Option 1: Let wendy make abigail passive or suicidal at will. Rezecib can do it with mods so i'm sure klei can too.
Option 2: If Abigail will never be more than a disposible meatshield at least make her not suck at it. She is indirectly nerfed by everything in DST having 2-10 times more health. Give her 50% more hp, out of combat regen and range. She wont kill faster but maybe she might survive longer than the thing she is tanking.

Woodie:
The problem with Woodie is that his "playstyle" makes no logical sense. You're either always insane and busy as beaver or you're eating all the wood you chopped while asking yourself "why did i pick woodie again?" Full moons are either a death sentence or wasted sleeping. I try to play woodie but it's never worth it. I know that not losing his inventory forces the beaver to be much weaker but if Klei doesnt want beaver to be good at least make him not thrash. Let him mine faster, give him full heat, water, cold resistance and lower the sanity drain to at least -15/s (instead of -90/s). Sure Max is still better but at least Beaver can gather under all conditions and not be a hindrance.

Willow
Bernie and lighter are bad but whatever, it's the freezing while insane that kills her. I'd say she is worse than Wes. At least he can farm nightmare fuel without losing hp for no reason. She is already insane, why does she need a penalty for it? Just remove her freezing (or find something else) and let other people cook with lighter. She is not super good but at least she is not an "obvious troll pick" anymore.

2 hours ago, Dalek said:

To change: remove the battle-spear damage nerf for other characters, add damage-buff only for her, let’s say, 10% for other weapons, remove hp- and sanity-gain from dead foes. 

There is no battle spear "nerf" for other characters, it's Wig who has natural passive buff of +25% atk and defense. Without hp/sanity gain she would be garbage, she needs it to mitigate her meat diet.

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Dalek    273
1 hour ago, Serph said:

 

There is no battle spear "nerf" for other characters, it's Wig who has natural passive buff of +25% atk and defense. Without hp/sanity gain she would be garbage, she needs it to mitigate her meat diet.

Shoot, of course, she has this damage multiplier already, I totally forgot about that. Well, than just let her eat mushrooms, they have protein.

4 hours ago, Neutral_Steve said:

 

-Reduce WX-78 max stats and reduce required gears to achieve max level. 300HP, 250HG, 250ST would be good.

 

Why would they do it? It’s pretty simple to get 15 gears in first summer, while rushing ruines, and reducing stats makes no sense. We are not in pvp, more health is always good.

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Maximum101    132
On 12/16/2018 at 3:40 PM, Sinister_Fang said:

Oh boy, an opportunity to talk about Maxwell's duelists? It's been a while, so I'll take it!

I think it would be neat to see the duelists copy the player's kiting patterns. So normally if the player isn't attacking, then they would try to stay out of attacking distance. However if you attack something, then they'll also go in for an attack with you. This would give the player more control over their agro so they don't just instantly attack anything that tries to hit Maxwell himself.

Now for their biggest issue: defense. Firstly, they will not draw agro from anything by attacking. Combined with their mimicry of Maxwell's attacks, this means agro stays on the player. This makes kiting easier (as enemies aren't trying to chase something actively running away) and it puts most of the danger on Maxwell himself rather then his puppets. To keep their kiting consistent with Maxwell, they should also receive any speed boosts Maxwell himself has.

Overall, I think these changes would put them in a more usable state without making players overly reliant on them doing everything for them.

I agree that the Duelists need a little more defense and perhaps a little more health, but as a semi-bad work around for forcing them to kite (not that it stops them from running away) you can do /dance to help them dodge attacks more (this "dance kiting" is already in the game, not a balance idea).

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GenomeSquirrel    1078

Well as far as the big 3 are concerned

Wickerbottom’s tentacle book is what elevates her so high, so nerfing them is the way to go, maybe have the newer mini tentacles spawned as a possibility.

Wolfgang, hunger always at its worst, happy middle groung stats replaced with hungry stats, and character speed modifiers nullified.

WX, HP gained from gears halved

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Sinister_Fang    9351
4 hours ago, Xehanightmare said:

Some advice with regards to rebalancing:

Don't.

No, seriously, don't.

A few of the characters have already been nerfed into oblivion compared to single player. I've seen where the constant rebalancing rabbit hole goes. That's how we get stuck with games like Primal Carnage: Extinction where pretty much every patch is a rebalance and no one is ever happy. If anything needs to change do it once and then never touch it again.

So what you're saying is that the characters nerfed in DST should remain that way?

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Neu7ral    1190
19 hours ago, Dalek said:

Why would they do it? It’s pretty simple to get 15 gears in first summer, while rushing ruines, and reducing stats makes no sense. We are not in pvp, more health is always good.

I think you're not getting it, we're on a balance post, this means both buffs and nerfs.

WX-78 is an overpowered charcter and it needs tone down it's max stats, and having buffed initial stats in DST it doesn't help.

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Tapirus    2087

Well, It's something curious that WX-78 eats 15 gears, lowing the possibilities of have a secure place (thanks to fligo machines and ice boxes). So, I never eat gears playing as XW-78.

Also, is not nice when some players come to see the base just to eat the gears left in some chest while the rest is busy.

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Dalek    273
37 minutes ago, Neutral_Steve said:

I think you're not getting it, we're on a balance post, this means both buffs and nerfs.

WX-78 is an overpowered charcter and it needs tone down it's max stats, and having buffed initial stats in DST it doesn't help.

I think, WX is something like a challenge to new players, that forces them to lurk for gears and explore the new and scary (to them) world of ruins. As for me, in vanilla, before DST came out, I was very afraid of exploring caves, and for a long time I couldn’t even find the thulecite sinkhole, until I unlocked WX and figured out, that I can actually heal from fallen clockworks, and ruines are not that scary at all. And I think, he’s not so OP at all - 400HP is just 100HP more than mighty Wolfgang, sanity is pretty simple to manage in late-game, no matter how much you have - 100 or 300, and hunger - well, 200 is not a very big number.

5 minutes ago, Tapirus said:

Well, It's something curious that WX-78 eats 15 gears, lowing the possibilities of have a secure place (thanks to fligo machines and ice boxes). So, I never eat gears playing as XW-78.

Also, is not nice when some players come to see the base just to eat the gears left in some chest while the rest is busy.

Last time me and a friend of mine rushed ruines in the first summer, we got enough gears to fully upgrade me, build 3 Ise boxes and 1 flingo and have 5 extra-gears in chest just in case. And we didn’t even explore the whole ruine-area, just half, I suppose.

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Lakurius    561
48 minutes ago, Neutral_Steve said:

I think you're not getting it, we're on a balance post, this means both buffs and nerfs.

WX-78 is an overpowered charcter and it needs tone down it's max stats, and having buffed initial stats in DST it doesn't help.

Uh actually, if we use math and logic we come to the conclusion that 400 max hp aren't op at all. They don't help him do any task faster and you still need the same amount of healing food/time to heal yourself as any other char. The only thing that changes is that you're allowed to make more mistakes in combat (just learn to kite and don't tank 100 splumonkeys, thank you).

I really don't see how 200 max hunger and 300 max sanity are op so um wut.

Tl;dr

400 max hp don't make wx a better char, they only make playing him slightly easier.

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Dalek    273
9 minutes ago, Lakurius said:

Uh actually, if we use math and logic we come to the conclusion that 400 max hp aren't op at all. They don't help him do any task faster and you still need the same amount of healing food/time to heal yourself as any other char. The only thing that changes is that you're allowed to make more mistakes in combat (just learn to kite and don't tank 100 splumonkeys, thank you).

I really don't see how 200 max hunger and 300 max sanity are op so um wut.

Tl;dr

400 max hp don't make wx a better char, they only make playing him slightly easier.

...and more useful to the team. He can distract and tank enemies while other team members heal or craft armor/weapon, etc.

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Lakurius    561
47 minutes ago, Dalek said:

...and more useful to the team. He can distract and tank enemies while other team members heal or craft armor/weapon, etc.

Literally any char can do that

29 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

ALL OF THEM!!!

WE NEED all of them!!

U-um no sry i'd like to keep them secret till i make a video/guide about them or something >.<

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Viktor234    5421
On 17.12.2018 at 2:50 PM, RatherAzure said:

Willow's items are too expensive and don't have much yield. Bernie lasts 1.5 minutes only against three shadow monsters of one player. Which makes me think Bernie was not intended to be a shadow monster farming tool but rather, a "oh god get them off me GET THEM OFF IM TRYING TO GET IN THE FUCKIGN TENT BUT IT WON'T LET ME GET THEM OFF" tool. And he costs beard hair? Beefalo wool? These are not items that I casually just have lying around, but rather, items I have to chase down.

I like Bernie in DST. Here are some of his perks just for you:

  • He's the only one who can tank Shadow Creatures besides you or any other players
  • Bernie has a total of 1000 Health (same as a player with 200 Health and 2.54 Log Suits) and he can tank up to 20 Terrorbeak attacks or 50 Crawling Horror attacks if left undefended
  • Once Bernie reaches 0 Health, he won't die instantly but just turn into his dead state; you can still use 1/5 of your Sewing Kit and restore him to 100% durability
    • 0.2x Log + 1.6x Silk + 0.4x Hound's Tooth restores a total of 1000 Health or 200 Health + 2.54 Log Suits in just a second
    • A single Sewing Kit to tank a total of 5000 damage, that are 100 Terrorbeak or 250 Crawling Horror attacks

Bernie is only working if there's an insane player nearby and his dance move pulls the aggro of every Shadow Creature in his range (You can see that a Shadow Creature which focus you gets distracted when it becomes more transparent).

He is really useful if for example you aren't playing as Wolfgang or Wigfrid and need to face Deerclops alone. A Firepit close to a road, any not that bad weapon (Fresh Hambat, Dark Sword), Bernie, a Sewing Kit and probably some Armor & a Thermal Stone is all you need to defeat Deerclops as Willow. Just place Bernie to the ground and use the Hit-and-Run-tactic against Deerclops. Bernie will tank all the Shadow Creatures. As soon as Bernie changes into his dead state, try to run a big circle and use your Sewing Kit on Bernie, this will distract the Shadow Creatures once again.

If you want to farm Nightmare Fuel, just place him on the ground and try to stay insane. Attack all the Shadow Creatures approaching Bernie with a Hambat or a Dark Sword to protect him & collect all the Nightmare Fuel. You can also increase your damage dealt to Shadow Creature by 100-200% if you let Bernie take one attack from a Shadow Creature and attack the Shadow Creature as soon as he starts his attack animation. He'll take 2-3 hits before his "disappearing"-animation which might allow a Wolfgang to kill the Terrorbeak on the 1st encounter.

Bernie is a nice & cheap Shadow Creatures Tank which will perform even better with another player who takes care of him. Farming Silk for Sewing Kits or other Bernies won't be a problem with a Wendy or Webber in your team.

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Dalek    273
31 minutes ago, Lakurius said:

Literally any char can do that

 

But fully upgraded WX can do it longer without armor. Again, the episode from my own experience - we fought Klaus, ran out of any armor, my friend is dead, Klaus has 900HP, and my connection is pretty bad, so I can’t kite well. The only way was to tank, and fortunately, I was fully upgraded and killed that bastard. 

 

and then died cuz of deer fire-attack

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Sinister_Fang    9351

He might be a little bland, but WX is pretty dang good at not dying. And that's useful to have no matter what skill level your at. He's also got access to the best healing item in the game. Gears restore 60 health, 75 hunger and 50 sanity (even if your stats are maxed to can continue to eat them). They also do not spoil, stack up to 40 and have the quick eating animation. So if you know how to raid the ruins, you're pretty dang close to being immortal. It's not my cup of tea personally, but I can see why his resilience might be appealing to others.

He's also incredible at kiting when overcharged too. If timed correctly, you can get 1 or 2 extra hits in that other characters can't do. The constant light source and inability to freeze are nice to have as well.

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Mr.Mulk    1210

Inventory Burning would be cool

I'd require fire immunity back but it'd put Willow as one of the better fighting characters with the only default AoE attack.

I was actually discussing this with @ScottHansen recently, apparently the devs didn't even know of its existence.

For those of you who don't know this is inventory burning:

It's definitely a really cool happy accident caused by coconades being a thing, but ironically adds a lot to her character's ability, especially in the end game.

It'd have to be nerfed in some form for DST though (maybe a dps cap or something?) I'd think, it'd be potentially a bit much with a Maxwell mass producing munitions logs.

If a system like this did get added it'd immediately help the imbalance in a unique and creative way utilizing a lesser known mechanic from the singleplayer game.

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Tumalu    547

ok now that would be really cool. just add a red outline (opposed to blue for Wet) for burning inventory and cap the damage it can do and whabam!

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Lakurius    561
15 hours ago, Dalek said:

But fully upgraded WX can do it longer without armor. Again, the episode from my own experience - we fought Klaus, ran out of any armor, my friend is dead, Klaus has 900HP, and my connection is pretty bad, so I can’t kite well. The only way was to tank, and fortunately, I was fully upgraded and killed that bastard. 

 

and then died cuz of deer fire-attack

Spoiler

you do know that you can walk away from the loot stash in order to lose klaus' aggro, right? He won't despawn if you're near it so you can use this to heal yourself/craft armor :)

Again: any char could do that, they would just have to kite the enemies instead of tanking them.

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Dalek    273
5 hours ago, Lakurius said:
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you do know that you can walk away from the loot stash in order to lose klaus' aggro, right? He won't despawn if you're near it so you can use this to heal yourself/craft armor :)

Again: any char could do that, they would just have to kite the enemies instead of tanking them.

1) it was already spring, so he would despawn

2) I couldn’t kite right - I had a very bad connection

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