Your Character Balance Ideas

[Dalek]

12 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Also when Klaus looses interests he becomes idle and when his idle he regenerates hp

yeah, that matters too

[Lakurius]

12 hours ago, Dalek said:

1) it was already spring, so he would despawn

2) I couldn’t kite right - I had a very bad connection

This is a perfect example of "why wx's 400 hp don't make him a good char". Because of some mistakes you/your friend made (you probably lost too much time doing something unnecessary), you were forced to fight klaus right before spring. If you managed your time better you wouldnt've needed wx's 400 max hp. Just play it well and 400 hp will literally become useless. 

[Szczuku]

Wx's max stats do make the game a bit easier but he shouldn't be nerfed

Why? 

Cuz he indeed is a fun character to play. I'm having more fun playing wx than I had playing Wendy. 

Edit: I'm not supporting Lakurius. Just wanted to put my 2 cents in the bucket

[Dalek]

3 hours ago, Lakurius said:

This is a perfect example of "why wx's 400 hp don't make him a good char". Because of some mistakes you/your friend made (you probably lost too much time doing something unnecessary), you were forced to fight klaus right before spring. If you managed your time better you wouldnt've needed wx's 400 max hp. Just play it well and 400 hp will literally become useless. 

we played it the way we wanted to. Klaus is an optional boss, that’s the idea - you can fight him whenever you want in winter.

you now just want to protect your position by calling my playstyle not so good as yours or someone else’s just because you don’t like the idea, that fully upgraded WX-78 is good for this plystyle, making his max stats an actually good thing, which ruines your point of view. :/

 

you’re now just saying, that he should be nerfed because you don’t like him and he makes the game easier. well, game offers you a pretty big amount of characters, who don’t, so just play them and let other people have fun.

[TipherethB]

I Think WX is fine, he doesn't need a nerf. I Think other characters need a nerf.. I Think you can tell who.

[Lakurius]

2 hours ago, Dalek said:

we played it the way we wanted to. Klaus is an optional boss, that’s the idea - you can fight him whenever you want in winter.

you now just want to protect your position by calling my playstyle not so good as yours or someone else’s just because you don’t like the idea, that fully upgraded WX-78 is good for this plystyle, making his max stats an actually good thing, which ruines your point of view. :/

 

you’re now just saying, that he should be nerfed because you don’t like him and he makes the game easier. well, game offers you a pretty big amount of characters, who don’t, so just play them and let other people have fun.

Of course you can play as you want! I just said that wx is a very forgiving char. I don't want him to get nerfed; his 400 max hp aren't that strong so i completely oppose a wx nerf.

5 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Wx's max stats do make the game a bit easier but he shouldn't be nerfed

Why? 

Cuz he indeed is a fun character to play. I'm having more fun playing wx than I had playing Wendy. 

^

[Monkey Cups]

On 12/17/2018 at 7:17 PM, Sinister_Fang said:

So what you're saying is that the characters nerfed in DST should remain that way?

I would give them their single player abilities back, but that's not a rebalance so much as a reversion.

[Sinister_Fang]

1 hour ago, Xehanightmare said:

I would give them their single player abilities back, but that's not a rebalance so much as a reversion.

I'm not exactly sure what happened to Woodie, but Willow's insanity fires from DS would not work in DST. There would be too much unintentional griefing. She would have even more of a stigma as a griefing character then she does now.

And personally, I prefer DST Maxwell over DS. The shadow puppets are a lot more refined then they were originally.

[Tumalu]

Yeah, I prefer Max with infinite duration puppets that work without being told to, refund half their fuel when dismissed, and don't cost HP. Kind of hoping the QoL update in january for single-player grants him the DST puppets.

[maradyne]

Tons of ideas I've had for character re-balance since this was in beta, but...most important to me as someone who loves Max's personality:

Literally just add most of the Maxwell changes from this mod to the game: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=741879530
And make Shadow Puppets immune to falling rocks, which they make no attempt to dodge. Show us cave players some love.

Friendly/befriended AI improvements in general. There should be a 'STOP IT NERD' button for the Duelists, Abigail, Spiders, Pigs, ect. They're suicidal without it.

 

I will say that I like Woodie, at least part of him. Not anything having to do with woodcutting...though that concept seems like it should be an issue.
But his Pinecone-Sanity mechanic and extended friendliness timer make him a great Cave character. I am lord of the Buns.
But legit. When I play Woodie, I avoid chopping trees and the Werebeaver altogether when possible.

...I feel like Klei really didn't think the Werebeaver changes through. I mean...he's got this cute special axe and higher chopping speed, so he seems like he should be a woodcutter. But the Werebeaver feels more like a hindrance than a help, and functioning as a woodcutter brings that out. It's surpassable, sure, but...
It's the same issue that Chinese Knockoff Willow suffers from. Traits that actually discourage the player from using their perks.

 

If anything, I'd ask Klei to look at the characters, not worry too much about balance, and update them based on QoL and what's fun to play. They did wonderfully with the Forge, so they can do it if they try.

[Yuuko]

I agree with this ^

Don't worry so much about balance, just worry about what makes a character great.  Even if it means changing some things, and losing some things.

I was thinking about Wigfrid and how she's this awesome method actress, and was wondering "what if she got a second role?"  Its probably not the best idea, but I think Klei should be open to what good ideas they come up with ^_^

The only thing I have to say about balance is that I don't care too much if a character is much better than another, as long as I feel like I'm helping in multiplayer.  Just make sure each character has something they can do to help contribute.

[TipherethB]

Just now, Shosuko said:

I was thinking about Wigfrid and how she's this awesome method actress, and was wondering "what if she got a second role?"  Its probably not the best idea, but I think Klei should be open to what good ideas they come up with ^_^

The only thing I have to say about balance is that I don't care too much if a character is much better than another, as long as I feel like I'm helping in multiplayer.  Just make sure each character has something they can do to help contribute.

Pretty sure there's a mod for that.

 

[Tumalu]

41 minutes ago, lifetheuniverse said:

...I feel like Klei really didn't think the Werebeaver changes through. I mean...he's got this cute special axe and higher chopping speed, so he seems like he should be a woodcutter. But the Werebeaver feels more like a hindrance than a help, and functioning as a woodcutter brings that out. It's surpassable, sure, but..

It's not so bad; you chop until you transform, and KEEP chopping since chopping further will turn you back into human. The form ends before you lose too much sanity and then you just plant some of the pinecones you just made. New Woodie isn't bad imo, it's just WILDLY different from singleplayer since it's not about using werebeaver. I'd actually love playing him if I liked Woodie on a personality/aesthetic level more, lots of wood/sanity is cool, he's like Maxwell without the half max hp.

[TipherethB]

One Character balance idea i'd love to see:

Abigail's HP being buffed. She was indirectly nerfed when everything got 2 - 20x more HP. It'd be nice for her to be able to tank enemies long enough to maybe outtank them.

[Sinister_Fang]

1 hour ago, lifetheuniverse said:

And make Shadow Puppets immune to falling rocks, which they make no attempt to dodge. Show us cave players some love.

They've been immune to rocks for a very long time.

[maradyne]

...huh, changes under the radar. I'd been dusting my assistants whenever earthquakes start due to tragic experiences involving surprise rock-head love affairs for so long that I didn't notice lol.

...SUGGESTION, TYPE OUT UPDATE COMPONENTS LIKE THAT IN LOUD CASE

[Tumalu]

It's just easy to miss small updates, e.g. everyone yelling about Willow freezing all the time when insane when it only happens in Winter/big wetness now. I'm also really glad to hear the puppets are quake immune though, I didn't know either.

[minespatch]

1 minute ago, Tumalu said:

It's just easy to miss small updates,

I subscribe to the devs here so I don't miss out.

[Monkey Cups]

20 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

I'm not exactly sure what happened to Woodie, but Willow's insanity fires from DS would not work in DST. There would be too much unintentional griefing. She would have even more of a stigma as a griefing character then she does now.

I find that odd given we have smouldering in DST. If something catches on fire there really is no excuse for it, fires can be put out here just by clicking on smouldering objects, unlike in single player. Anyone can grief via making a torch and intentionally lighting things anyway.

[Tumalu]

35 minutes ago, Xehanightmare said:

I find that odd given we have smouldering in DST. If something catches on fire there really is no excuse for it, fires can be put out here just by clicking on smouldering objects, unlike in single player. Anyone can grief via making a torch and intentionally lighting things anyway.

Sure, but you can only unsmoulder so many objects if you're the only one in base, and it's a liability. Playing a weak character who puts your base at regular, even if not massive risk of burning down... I'd rather have a Wes.

It doesn't really work in singleplayer anymore either since you don't have ice flingos in worlds other than RoG. Cool, if you ever step in your base while insane it'll all burn down! Kinda hoping the QoL update just puts DST Willow in singleplayer but fire immune.

[Raspberry Shake]

Change Wilson from his DS counterpart. Maybe he could also get some cool, if less powerful, shadow powers from the throne. Just... something, this is the protagonist of the franchise we're talking about here, he shouldn't be THIS dull to play now that we have Winona as a starter character!

[Maxposting]

1 hour ago, Raspberry Milk said:

we have Winona as a starter character!

we have Wilson 1.1 + ( - 0.1 ) Genderbent as a starter character!

[TipherethB]

14 hours ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

we have Wilson 1.1 + ( - 0.1 ) Genderbent as a starter character!

Wilson "2.0" is bad because she doesn't grow a beard.

[maradyne]

I fantasize that the Halloween thing with the Potions may have been Klei looking at what they could do with Wilson.

[Atkvin]

(Necroing this thread slightly with some ideas for the infamous Winona and making her a more engaging and interesting character than she is now!.. well, hopefully better ideas than the ones I had for Willow lmao, but regardless, just wanna throw out some ideas to start a discussion around even if they may not be that great - a big thank you to those who took the time to respond to my first post and explained to me the flaws in my ideas :w:)

Onto the post:

---

Winona now starts with Trusty Tape and a new unique item, her Toolbox.

Winona's Toolbox can be set down to grant her a unique crafting tab that allows her to craft Kits (that she can prototype by using the Toolbox near already built structures) - these Kits are limited-use mini versions of structures such as the Alchemy Engine or Crockpot, made with cheaper recipes and can be carried (one at a time), set down or picked back up using her Toolbox, allowing her to carry around mobile Alchemy Engines or Crockpots useful for early-game exploration and spelunking, especially for complementing characters such as Wigfrid underground. (maybe this could be expanded upon with more types of Kits, specifically for things like automation or magic? dunno)

To add to this, these Kits limited in use could be repairable through her Trusty Tapes - just slightly distinguishing her Trusty Tapes and giving them additional use to Winona specifically apart from being cheaper Sewing Kits.

Winona's other perk will come in her "indomitable spirit" from working in harsh conditions; when one of her stats are low, she will gain speed and sanity scaling with how low the stat is, allowing her to tough out or escape to resolve her stats, slightly keeping with her being more beginner-friendly (her slight Charlie resistance) while hopefully having applications such as complementing her Toolbox in making her a strong spelunker and tenacious survivor.

Aside from all that, I really feel that crafting should be an integral part of Winona's play-style from her core identity as an assembly line worker. I really like the idea that she should lose a tiny amount of hunger when crafting anything... but I think she should also gain a small amount of health (5 hunger, 7.5 health? just throwing around numbers here) from crafting simultaneously. This way, Winona won't be discouraged from using her quick-crafting perk due to a downside to crafting as she has equal-if-not-more incentive to do so in order to regain health.

Additionally, she should gain the ability to multi-craft when she is near a Science Machine or Alchemy Engine, or their respective Kit versions allowing her to factory-craft a ton of resources for bases, armor and clothes for her allies, and so on, given the resources.

This also means that in a pinch, a creative and desperate Winona could pull off strats such as - tying back into her mobile Kits - dropping her Alchemy Kit to multi-craft 10 torches in order to quickly regain 75 health instantaneously in exchange for 50 hunger and the resources required...

---

(I wasn't quite so sure of this other idea for another downside I had, but I'll leave it here anyways - I was wondering about giving her fewer inventory slots than other characters, in line with her focus on crafting and her Toolbox taking up an inventory slot, as this will give her much fewer slots to carry resources to craft, and also impact her overall play-style by limiting her capacity to carry essentials like food or armor and thus requiring more inventory management and prioritization than other characters. Again, wasn't so sure though, she could function very well as a more interesting character than the original without another additional wrinkle like this.)

Thank for reading! :V