Sour gas

[socooo]

A nice update

3ku klei

video link:https://www.bilibili.com/video/av30436580/

This is just a prototype. I will do more optimization. No external refrigeration needed. It itself is a refrigerator. Because of sour gas's low specific heat capacity

[socooo]

video link：https://www.bilibili.com/video/av30866322/

[blash365]

Is that copper or NG in the cooling pipe?

[greenpheonix632]

 

2 hours ago, socooo said:

video link：https://www.bilibili.com/video/av30866322/

could you post it it on yt as i cant access it

[Saturnus]

9 minutes ago, greenpheonix632 said:

could you post it it on yt as i cant access it

I don't think that's possible. Youtube as you know is blocked in China.

[greenpheonix632]

Just now, Saturnus said:

I don't think that's possible. Youtube as you know is blocked in China.

well that has big gay

[socooo]

18 hours ago, blash365 said:

Is that copper or NG in the cooling pipe?

NG

18 hours ago, greenpheonix632 said:

 

could you post it it on yt as i cant access it

I’m sorry for this.I need VPN to login into yt

 

[Soulwind]

Nice.  Don't get reliant on it though.  I expect another change incoming soon to prevent sour gas loops from becoming

the next Borg Cube (drip-cooling exploit) as the S.G. loop is even better at heat deletion, although a bit more complex to setup.

[Carnis]

7 hours ago, Soulwind said:

Nice.  Don't get reliant on it though.  I expect another change incoming soon to prevent sour gas loops from becoming

the next Borg Cube (drip-cooling exploit) as the S.G. loop is even better at heat deletion, although a bit more complex to setup.

You cant set it up without a 600C heat source.

It won't become a Borg cube IMO.

[TLW]

2 hours ago, Carnis said:

You cant set it up without a 600C heat source.

if I've calculated it correctly you can have a self-sustaining high-temp heat source by melting regolith. Regolith has a specific heat capacity of 0.2J/gK, whereas magma (which it melts into) has a specific heat capacity of 1.0J/gK, as does the igneous rock the magma turns into when it cools.

But really you can just use magma until you start getting into 4-digit cycle counts.

This is substantially more complex than the borg cube, I will grant you that.

By the way: if you want even more cooling power have a molten-sulfur-cooled thermal aquatuner venting on overflow into space.

[Grimgaw]

I wouldn't compare it to drip cooling or by extent the borg cube. Drip cooling was something you had to actively avoid and sometimes it would be impossible to avoid. 

This is knowingly exploiting SHC akin to regoilith melting or boiling polluted water (until Thursday). You choose to do it. I don't care what you do in your game. I have a problem when bug makes me cheat whether I want it or not (like drip cooling did).

[socooo]

15 hours ago, Soulwind said:

Nice.  Don't get reliant on it though.  I expect another change incoming soon to prevent sour gas loops from becoming

the next Borg Cube (drip-cooling exploit) as the S.G. loop is even better at heat deletion, although a bit more complex to setup.

The secret lies in its reaction tank.Hydrogen gas is used to cool the reactor, producing a small amount of liquid methane that can be pumped into the empty pipe in the first place.Once there is enough liquid methane in the pipe, the gas cooling won't work, and liquid cooling has been the main force since now.Air cooling is only the function of temperature protection.

Optimized machine

The video link has been sent

[Tunechi_sama]

does the oil the sour gas passes through heat up much?

[SkunkMaster]

this whole system will have to be changed now where they increased the heat capacity of sour gas from 0.242 to 1.898....

 

I wonder why they would make such a DRASTIC change.. 8x increase seems a bit much.

[0xFADE]

Yeah they just raised the heat capacity this patch.

[Saturnus]

10 minutes ago, SkunkMaster said:

this whole system will have to be changed now where they increased the heat capacity of sour gas from 0.242 to 1.898....

I wonder why they would make such a DRASTIC change.. 8x increase seems a bit much.

Because they have absolutely no idea what they're doing. Sad but true.

Slightly more than doubling it would have be sufficient.

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

27 minutes ago, SkunkMaster said:

this whole system will have to be changed now where they increased the heat capacity of sour gas from 0.242 to 1.898....

 

I wonder why they would make such a DRASTIC change.. 8x increase seems a bit much.

Simple. They wanted to bring the heat capacity closer to to that of natural gas and methane. Honestly I think that's ok as long as they also increased thermal conductivity. Before you needed little extra cooling input once the system was primed and you used the extremely cool natural gas, sitting at 2.1 heat capacity, to absorb the heat of the sour gas, being at 0.4 heat capacity, basically deleting huge swats of heat.

Now you can actually still delete heat. Just way, way less. Again, I do hope thermal conductivity has been bumped up.

[Carnis]

5 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Simple. They wanted to bring the heat capacity closer to to that of natural gas and methane. Honestly I think that's ok as long as they also increased thermal conductivity.

Without this change, oil boiling Via sour gas would Been impossible, now its just complex + 33% less efficiency.

[Djoums]

7 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Now you can actually still delete heat. Just way, way less. Again, I do hope thermal conductivity has been bumped up.

Still 0.018 in game.

[nvzboy]

18 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Because they have absolutely no idea what they're doing. Sad but true.

Slightly more than doubling it would have be sufficient.

Except it wouldn't have. I did some quick back-of-the-envelope calculations and the change means that you go from getting roughly 970KJ of cooling per kg of crude oil processed to about 190KJ in heating out for the same amount. Your proposed change would only reduce the potential for cooling with this setup to about 801KJ per kg crude.

This change makes a lot of sense sense to me both from a gameplay and realism perspective as some have already sayd, the new value is much closer to the properties in real life. I figure the devs knew exactly what they were doing.

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

Just now, Djoums said:

Still 0.018 in game.

Hmpfff, not really liking that. They should bump it up to match the increased heat capacity.

[Saturnus]

7 minutes ago, nvzboy said:

Except it wouldn't have. I did some quick back-of-the-envelope calculations and the change means that you go from getting roughly 970KJ of cooling per kg of crude oil processed to about 190KJ in heating out for the same amount. Your proposed change would only reduce the potential for cooling with this setup to about 801KJ per kg crude.

You sure you're not leaving out the conversion rate?

A little over doubling would by my fast calculation have been around the sweet spot where any practical supercooler using sour gas would be next to impossible to build outside debug mode. Now you could exploit it for an oil boiler like before just accepting the reduced efficiency. 

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

10 minutes ago, Carnis said:

Without this change, oil boiling Via sour gas would Been impossible, now its just complex + 33% less efficiency.

I'd never try to boil oil with sour gas anyway. Maybe to get the oil a bit more on temperature while trying to cool the sour gas somewhat down, but effectively boiling will require something like a volcano or glass forge. The change surely has to do with using natural gas to cool the sour gas back down with little extra cooling input.needed. Before, 1g of natural gas could drop 1g of sour gas by over 5°C before raising 1°C itself. I think that was nuts. Ok, you only get 0.4g of natural gas for each gram of sour gas, so that would mean an effective 2°C drop for each gram of sour gas vs 1°C drop of natural gas, but still you were effectively deleting heat at a very rapid pace, instead of having to put in signficant extra cooling.

Btw, in what form does the sulfur appear? If liquid, you can still use the mass to cool the natural gas.

[Saturnus]

7 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Btw, in what form does the sulfur appear? If liquid, you can still use the mass to cool the natural gas.

Solid

8 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Ok, you only get 0.4g of natural gas for each gram of sour gas, so that would mean an effective 2°C drop for each gram of sour gas vs 1°C drop of natural gas, but still you were effectively deleting heat at a very rapid pace, instead of having to put in signficant extra cooling.

That's why I said a little over doubling would have been sufficient.

[nvzboy]

28 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

You sure you're not leaving out the conversion rate?

A little over doubling would by my fast calculation have been around the sweet spot where any practical supercooler using sour gas would be next to impossible to build outside debug mode. Now you could exploit it for an oil boiler like before just accepting the reduced efficiency. 

All transitions are 1->1 except for the one from sour gas to natural gas and sulfur which is about 60/40 respectively I found around the forums. All that accounted for, what did I miss then?

In short summary my calculation (forgive me for my rounding errors):

Assumption: crude oil is pumped in at 75°C, end products end up back at that temperature.

Crude oil to Petroleum: 75°C -> 399,9 °C @ 1,69 kj/kgK equals about 547kj/kg crude of cooling

Petroleum to sour gas 399,9 -> 538,9 °C @ 1,76 kj/kgK equals about 244kj/kg crude of cooling

This is where the calculation splits:

Old value: Sour gas to products: 538,9°C -> -161°C @ 0,242 kj/kgK equals 170kj/kg crude of heat released, with your proposal, double this value -> 340kj/kg

New Value: Idem @ 1,898 kj/kgK equals 1329kj/kg crude of heat released.

Finally heating the end products back to 75°C:

Sulfur 0,4kg from -161,5°C -> 75°C equals about 94 kj/kg

Natural gas 0,6kg from idem equals about 311 kj/kg.

If we add up all the "reactions" that require heat we get to about 1195kj/kg crude. If we add up all the "reactions" that give off heat for the various situations we get respectively 170, 340 and 1329kj/kg crude. If we translate that to net heat in and out we get for the three situations:

Old value: 1025kj/kg crude of cooling

Old value x2: 800kj/kg crude of cooling

New value: 134 kj/kg crude of heating.

 

Doing this maths makes me understand even more why this had to be done, if someone came up with a build that produced 1kg of natgas/s that would amount to about 3 aquatuners worth of cooling water nonstop.