So i wanted a challenge.

[Xadhoom]

i was trying to make myself a challenge, accept EVERY dupe. when i started i wanted a decent seed so i knew i would not die at once, however.... it was too much... after 159 cycles and 50 dupes i see no problem for me to keep going for at least 70-80 before it will slowly head to its doom due to lack of water. but the game is becoming a bit slow now, running at less then 20 FPS and having dupes stand still while process what next task to accept. also its becoming a bit tedious to manage all the dupes into shifts, treat burns, change occupations etc. now i feels like the challenge is to deal with slow game

so far i found water in ABUNDANCE!

Geysers:

p.water, 8,2 Kg/s

Water 5,4 Kg/s

Total: 13,6 Kg/s

Consumption with 50 dupes.

Oxygen, Water around 5 Kg/s

Farm, P,water 1,5 Kg/s, Water 2,5 Kg/s

Total 9 Kg/s

The Bustling Committee.sav

[Oozinator]

Game is not really a challenge, FPS are..

[SamLogan]

Play without Debug mode.

[Xadhoom]

i did, i only used it to check the geysers before posting.

[Carnis]

I play acc all too. Currently a bit of famine, and strangely food poisoning is also somehow moving from air to food..

I had big lag issues, but they were caused by other memory eating background programs.

Currently at 68 dups, I have & use less water, using wild pinchas & boiled oil slickster meat, currently growing the slickster population so My dupes starve a bit.

[SamLogan]

1 hour ago, Oozinator said:

Game is not really a challenge, FPS are..

The game is not a challenge for you, but a lot of players encounter a lot of difficulty. Because of this, many players don't buy the game or let him down quickly.

[_Q_]

16 minutes ago, SamLogan said:

The game is not a challenge for you, but a lot of players encounter a lot of difficulty. Because of this, many players don't buy the game or let him down quickly.

So its need to be easy cause stupid people are majority of the population. Hmm.

[watermelen671]

1 minute ago, _Q_ said:

So its need to be easy cause stupid people are majority of the population. Hmm.

What? Where did he say that?

18 minutes ago, SamLogan said:

The game is not a challenge for you, but a lot of players encounter a lot of difficulty. Because of this, many players don't buy the game or let him down quickly.

He never said that. Lemme put it into layman's words:

Quote

"Just because the game is easy for you, doesn't mean you get to bash/discredit anybody who's having a hard time."

 

[SamLogan]

10 minutes ago, _Q_ said:

So its need to be easy cause stupid people are majority of the population. Hmm.

When you create a game, what's it's your goal? Sell it to 10 clevers players (whose 7 will simply copied the setup/strategy of others) and will get bored really quickly. Or sell it to 1000 casuals players will enjoy the game more longer?

The actual problem is the game is too hard for new players, according to my community, and too easy for the veterans. So Klei needs to choose their camp or make a smooth start in the game and a harder end game.

[Denisetwin]

18 minutes ago, SamLogan said:

make a smooth start in the game and a harder end game.

hoping for this!

[old_fantom]

21 minutes ago, SamLogan said:

The actual problem is the game is too hard for new players, according to my community, and too easy for the veterans. So Klei needs to choose their camp or make a smooth start in the game and a harder end game.

I can see this point, the game is fairly easy after about 1500 of practice with the beta.  If you don't follow the forums or have a great deal of experience it would be easy to select a starting game with a loud sleeping, flatulant and other undesirables.  Accepting all dupes, without experience. Not knowing about how to get through slime bios without making anyone sick.  Or not getting off the algae soon enough for O2.  These would be easy to do and are why you see folks talking about colonies imploding at 50.  I have not had a colony that died.  I get bored with them.  The game is easy with experience.  But it is a learning curve I have gained with the each release.  I started with the disease release.  

[Argelle]

On this matter, it would be nice to have an opinion from actual new player, assuming they made to this forum, and not from us, with 500+ hours of game, and I'm sure a very fuzzy recollection of the game first impression.

As for a game developper strategy, why go for easy games, as they are legion and chances are, you will not be noticed, whereas interesting games are scarse, so you will attrack for more players. My money will go for challenging game, even with rough start.

Factorio, Dwarf Fortress, Europa, I summon you!

[Oozinator]

55 minutes ago, SamLogan said:

The game is not a challenge for you, but a lot of players encounter a lot of difficulty. Because of this, many players don't buy the game or let him down quickly.

Game is so casual now. I call it a nice looking interactive creative screensaver, filled with bugs and exploits..

[brockmasters]

remember when people complained about stupid people in the 90s? i long for new insults.

remember when people said modern art was "too easy" in the 70s? I long for expanded mindsets.

I applaud the OP. looking great! keep it up! don't the players who like to play troll more than push themselves get you down!

[_Q_]

36 minutes ago, SamLogan said:

When you create a game, what's it's your goal? Sell it to 10 clevers players (whose 7 will simply copied the setup/strategy of others) and will get bored really quickly. Or sell it to 1000 casuals players will enjoy the game more longer?

The actual problem is the game is too hard for new players, according to my community, and too easy for the veterans. So Klei needs to choose their camp or make a smooth start in the game and a harder end game.

They added game options for some reason, but even when I set everything to max difficulty some things like germs are simply not working,cause they nerfed them to the ground before adding options.

And then we have cool playerbase that instead using game settings comes here and complains about other mechanic, so it can be nerfed to the ground as well.

This game already has won best screen saver award from me. Stopped playing whatsoever, it all ends up like with other games from Klei, everything gets watered down to the point of being totally trivial. They make this mistake over and over again. 

I doubt I will get any other Klei game at this point in time.

[Christophlette]

3 minutes ago, _Q_ said:

This game already has won best screen saver award from me. Stopped playing whatsoever, it all ends up like with other games from Klei, everything gets watered down to the point of being totally trivial. They make this mistake over and over again. 

You created a topic and posted some messages saying the game was too difficult at the start of EU. You claim steel is too hard to get. But still, the game is too trivial. I don't get it.

[Mullematsch]

3 minutes ago, Christophlette said:

You created a topic and posted some messages saying the game was too difficult at the start of EU. You claim steel is too hard to get. But still, the game is too trivial. I don't get it.

Every time I see that guy post, I am face palming... 

[OmegaFunction]

1 hour ago, Argelle said:

On this matter, it would be nice to have an opinion from actual new player, assuming they made to this forum, and not from us, with 500+ hours of game, and I'm sure a very fuzzy recollection of the game first impression.

I have 483 hours and started my first game 2 weeks before the Expressive Upgrade was released. I think it is quite obvious, that I enjoyed the game quite a bit.

Experience is the most important factor whether this game is easy or not. And there is a whole lot of stuff, where reading and thinking will not help you, because the game won't tell you. Things you need to know:

1. Storage compactors can be built and operated under water and are not flooded. Should be in the tooltip.

2. Polluted dirt, slime, etc has a pressure limit. Tooltip.

3. Electrolyzer, Sieve, etc. Add fixed temperature to tooltip. I was very surprised when I realized that I was heating my base with my first water sieve. In this forum some people complain that the heat deletion potential of these is op. Although I agree that it is indeed really, really strong, new players don't know how to use it and will have the reverse effect of unknowingly heating their base. 

4. Working with geysers. Identifying without opening, capping etc. You don't know about this, when you start. Even an uncovered cool steam geyser at the edge of the uncovered map will slowly, gently kill you, if you don't know that you'd better deal with it soonish. And if you know that you have to do something, you still don't know what to do.

5. Bridges. They are insanely useful. But you do not know their priority system when you start.

6. Wild slicksters to get rid of CO2.

7. Vacuum is the perfect insulator.

These are the things I have the most vivid memories of. So basically, in order to be smoothly walk your way to success in the game, you need to complete the oni physics, oni biology and oni engineering undergraduate courses. I did so by watching @GrindThisGame and @Lifegrow. I then did my own setups and strayed slightly from their beaten path. Now I read graduate engineering courses in this forum for inspiration, like

People who think this game is way too easy, are basically oni phds. It is not, that any mechanic in this game is particularly hard, it is that you need to learn them all and their interactions which makes it very deep.

This is precisely the reason, why I enjoyed this game so much. That and the cuteness of the world. Klei however mostly advertises the cuteness of its dupes and critters. Not all people that are into cute dupes and critters are inclined to engineering which will give them a really hard time, when they try to make their dupes and critters happy.

[_Q_]

1 hour ago, Christophlette said:

You created a topic and posted some messages saying the game was too difficult at the start of EU. You claim steel is too hard to get. But still, the game is too trivial. I don't get it.

They obviously trolled everyone by not including all bits of morale items in the game before setting the testing branch life, the espresso machine was added when the EU went live out of beta, they do all to make proper testing impossible. Morale needed and still needs tweaks to make it proper mechanic.

[Christophlette]

3 minutes ago, _Q_ said:

They obviously trolled everyone by not including all bits of morale items in the game before setting the testing branch life, the espresso machine was added when the EU went live out of beta, they do all to make proper testing impossible. Morale needed and still needs tweaks to make it proper mechanic.

It's a beta of an alpha. I don't see the point in your criticism. Proper testing is done internally. Then we get to see what they've done, give feedback and report bugs. It's more than proper testing for a beta of an alpha.

The whole game needs tweaking. But hey, they are planning to do it, they are aware of the problems. The game is not "out" yet. So instead of being a bit too pointy you could maybe sum all the problems you see, solutions you may have for those problems and post it in suggestions. I'm sure they will read it.

But please be consistent in what you say. One week it's too hard, the other it's too easy. Devs can't take into account this kind feedback. And I'm sure you have a lot to tell to help improve the whole lot.

[_Q_]

9 minutes ago, Christophlette said:

It's a beta of an alpha. I don't see the point in your criticism. Proper testing is done internally. Then we get to see what they've done, give feedback and report bugs. It's more than proper testing for a beta of an alpha.

The whole game needs tweaking. But hey, they are planning to do it, they are aware of the problems. The game is not "out" yet. So instead of being a bit too pointy you could maybe sum all the problems you see, solutions you may have for those problems and post it in suggestions. I'm sure they will read it.

But please be consistent in what you say. One week it's too hard, the other it's too easy. Devs can't take into account this kind feedback. And I'm sure you have a lot to tell to help improve the whole lot.

They hide item that could help to stabilize morale at the required level, so obviously I will say that it was over the top.

But that comes from not starting new colony and using old save on beta branch.

Game is on screen saver level of difficulty, you just watch it more than actually playing it.

Exo suits being the biggest pile of crap ever made, after you get those, and its ultra easy to do so, there is no difficulty left at all.

Germs are not working, so we have that out of the way, there is no danger of any sort in this game, you can safely disregard space biome and top of the map and allow it to fill with regolith, you can survive just using bottom half of the map.

So its mostly screen saver and total waste of time, even on the highest difficulty.

[watermelen671]

36 minutes ago, _Q_ said:

Game is on screen saver level of difficulty, you just watch it more than actually playing it.

 

That's because people are clambering for everything to be automated, and to remove "all the micromanaging".

If everything's automated, what player interaction happens then?

If you want a challenge, why not do a run doing everything that you normally do, but with only 1 dupe alive? No new dupes, and the other two are dead. That'd sure make things interesting.

[Alfons100]

3 hours ago, SamLogan said:

When you create a game, what's it's your goal? Sell it to 10 clevers players (whose 7 will simply copied the setup/strategy of others) and will get bored really quickly. Or sell it to 1000 casuals players will enjoy the game more longer?

The actual problem is the game is too hard for new players, according to my community, and too easy for the veterans. So Klei needs to choose their camp or make a smooth start in the game and a harder end game.

Ding ding ding, we got a winner.

[OmegaFunction]

6 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

That's because people are clambering for everything to be automated, and to remove "all the micromanaging".

If everything's automated, what player interaction happens then?

 

To be fair, if you can automate it, it is a mechanically repetitive task, a chore not fun, especially with options given in oni. It is all boolean. You cannot automatically adjust a valve to a value computed by measurement inputs. I am not saying this should be added. I state it to make the point, that the automation system is rather limited.

 I suggest to just start a new colony, when you reach screen saver mode. Or play something else until the next update.

[watermelen671]

1 minute ago, OmegaFunction said:

It is all boolean.

...I don't think you used that word correctly.

Spoiler

4 minutes ago, OmegaFunction said:

 I suggest to just start a new colony, when you reach screen saver mode. Or play something else until the next update.

That's what I do, whenever I get bored of a world, I just nuke it and start over.