Seriously? 28 Pufts + 127 Morbs = 1 tame Pacu?

[habuky]

36 minutes ago, Prince Mandor said:

But really, how much meat/egg one pacu produce? How many pufts produce same amount?

Irrespective of being wild or tame, the reproduction rate of Pacus is 3-fold higher than of Pufts, the eggs have 8-fold more mass. Just the meat per creature are identical. However given the shorter lifespan and higher reproduction, Pacus clearly outnumber Pufts easily.

 

16 minutes ago, Soulwind said:

I build an Aquarium and put a pacu or 2 in it.  Then I feed them until they have tamed and laid 3 tamed eggs each.  Then I stop all feeding.  Even glum from hunger,  the new pacu will lay at least one and usually 2 eggs before starving. Algae free after that. 

If for some reason I need even more,  I can always feed for a generation and restart the population boom.

Thanks for the hint and coming back to the topic! I will definitely try that.   

Could you also have an arbitrary high number in the pool?

[Prince Mandor]

29 minutes ago, malloc said:

Edited 22 hours ago by R9MX4 <-- It's been kept up to date.

Okay. So, then one pacu is directly equivalent to 24 pufts (8× size and 1/3 time). And we need 28 pufts to feed one pacu at maximum efficiency. 

Yes, it's obvious. Do not feed pacu

7 minutes ago, habuky said:

Could you also have an arbitrary high number in the pool?

Yes, already Gloom don't became any gloomer.

Only Confined and Expecting fully stops reproduction

[BlueLance]

8 minutes ago, habuky said:

Irrespective of being wild or tame, the reproduction rate of Pacus is 3-fold higher than of Pufts, the eggs have 8-fold more mass. Just the meat per creature are identical. However given the shorter lifespan and higher reproduction, Pacus clearly outnumber Pufts easily.

 

Thanks for the hint and coming back to the topic! I will definitely try that.   

Could you also have an arbitrary high number in the pool?

I think the number would depend on if you door it off or not. I can understand a pacu being worth more because of the effort needed, but either meat should be more, a different kind of meat, and the food required less. To make it so that this is not ridiculously overpowered, maybe decrease reproduction rate or increase the lfespan and reduce the egg rate

[habuky]

16 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

I think the number would depend on if you door it off or not. I can understand a pacu being worth more because of the effort needed, but either meat should be more, a different kind of meat, and the food required less. To make it so that this is not ridiculously overpowered, maybe decrease reproduction rate or increase the lfespan and reduce the egg rate

Thus I assume, as long as it's an open pool, I could just drop an unlimited amount.

The food is not so much the problem yet, thus I would be a good idea to make them less strong. On the other hand we would then need a better source of egg shells....

[BlueLance]

Just now, habuky said:

Thus I assume, as long as it's an open pool, I could just drop an unlimited amount.

The food is not so much the problem yet, thus I would be a good idea to make them less strong. On the other hand we would then need a better source of egg shells....

I spose it all depends how quickly you want to go to the surface. I mean I have 6 stables, 2 Pufts, 2 Hatches, 1 Slickster and 1 Drecko. Even before that I have 1 drecko and 1 hatch farm and they have been providing me with plenty of eggshell, I just need to actually use it XD

[SamLogan]

Solution is easy : change the Algae Distiller stats.

[Neotuck]

4 minutes ago, SamLogan said:

Solution is easy : change the Algae Distiller stats.

The distillery is balanced as is.  If we change it and get too much algea it will unbalance oxygen production.  It would be better to reduce the algae need of the pacus

[BlueLance]

1 minute ago, Neotuck said:

It would be better to reduce the algae need of the pacus

I agree this is the easiest solution, I just worry it will go the opposite way and then we have the ultimate food and egg source for diddly squat algae.

[Neotuck]

Just now, BlueLance said:

I agree this is the easiest solution, I just worry it will go the opposite way and then we have the ultimate food and egg source for diddly squat algae.

Achieving balance is the biggest headache the devs deal with.    Sometimes I wonder if that's why they rush new content with every update in hopes we'll ignore them 

[BlueLance]

Well I can understand them holding back on re-balancing to some degree, I mean their might be something we don't know about coming out soon, or a new way to produce algae etc

[Neotuck]

We can only hope

[goboking]

1 hour ago, habuky said:

On the other hand we would then need a better source of egg shells....

Or another source of lime.

 

1 hour ago, SamLogan said:

Solution is easy : change the Algae Distiller stats.

I think the algae distiller is okay as is, but another means of producing slime would go a long way.  I imagine a more practical source of slime would see an increase in algae distiller use.

[BlueLance]

Limestone!

If slime were called sludge I could imagine it being a by-product of a few systems.

[Carnis]

2 hours ago, habuky said:

The food is not so much the problem yet, thus I would be a good idea to make them less strong. On the other hand we would then need a better source of egg shells....

Slicksters?

[goboking]

1 hour ago, BlueLance said:

Limestone!

I've suggested as much.  It didn't gain any traction, though.

[ICKA]

From what I tested, morbs with 8 tiles to move around will produce close to 10 kg of polluted oxygen ideally. Unfortunately, the faster your game is running and depending on how much your game is managing, the less they'll produce. For example, up to about cycle 53 in my current base morbs were producing close to 10 kg of polluted oxygen a cycle even when running on 3x speed. After that cycle they only produce that much if I run the game in 1x speed. In 2x speed morbs basically produce half, and in 3x morbs basically produce a third. Also you'd probably need to submerge the morbs slightly or move the gas away from them quickly to get better numbers. If you play on faster speeds you'd probably need even more morbs to feed your pacus.

[Neotuck]

6 minutes ago, ICKA said:

From what I tested, morbs with 8 tiles to move around will produce close to 10 kg of polluted oxygen ideally. Unfortunately, the faster your game is running and depending on how much your game is managing, the less they'll produce. For example, up to about cycle 53 in my current base morbs were producing close to 10 kg of polluted oxygen a cycle even when running on 3x speed. After that cycle they only produce that much if I run the game in 1x speed. In 2x speed morbs basically produce half, and in 3x morbs basically produce a third. Also you'd probably need to submerge the morbs slightly or move the gas away from them quickly to get better numbers. If you play on faster speeds you'd probably need even more morbs to feed your pacus.

Submerge them in a few kg of water will trick the morbs into thinking it's in a vacuum and output continuously

[greenpheonix632]

dude just keep them wild they still make the same amount of meat and egg shells wild as if they were tame. also if you want to use them for polluted dirt just let their meat rot

[AnotherBoris]

What do you mean, people? A man needs more eggs?

Well, let's see: 1kg of omelet is obtained from 2kg of eggs. 2800 kcal. The duplicant consumes 1000 kcal per cycle, so it needs (1000/2800) * 2 = 0.714kg of eggs.

Hatch and Slickster produce 1 / 3kg of eggs per cycle. Puft - 2 / 9kg of eggs per cycle.
Hatch eats 140 kg per cycle, Slickster - 20 kg, Puft - 15 kg (if you do not take slime from his ranch)

And ... again I will remind you that Polluted Oxygen is obtained by simple evaporation of Polutted Water.

Spoiler

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/92208-cosmic-upgrade-power-ideas/?do=findComment&comment=1053831
https://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/92509-infinite-oxygen-exploit/?do=findComment&comment=1055293

In this way:

Hatch consumes 100kg of Polluted Water per cycle. 0.714 / (1/3) = 2.142 Hatch on the duplicant. 2.142 * 100 = 214.2kg Polluted Water per duplicant per cycle. In doing so, we simultaneously receive an excess of oxygen (we will have to throw it into space) and 70 * 2.142 = 150kg of coal.

Puft - 15kg of Polluted Water per cycle. 0.714 / (2/9) = 3.213 Puft per duplicant. 3.213 * 15 = 48,195kg Polluted Water per duplicate per cycle. The downside of the method is the abundance of microbes in Polluted Oxygen. On the other hand, if you take out Dense Puft, then they consume only 1.5 kg of oxygen, which we have excess, if we produce oxygen from Polluted Water.

With Slickster it's harder. The easiest way to produce Carbon Dioxide is Natural Gas Generator. From 1kg Natural Gas, it produces 750g of Polluted Water and 250g of carbon dioxide. So, 1kg / s (600kg per cycle) will give us 450kg of Polluted Water and 150kg of Carbon Dioxide. This is 4.5 Hatch and 7.5 Slickster. (4.5 + 7.5) * (1/3) = 4 eggs per cycle. That is, for one duplicant we need 600 / (4 / 0.714) = 107.1kg Natural Gas per duplicant per cycle. At the same time, some coal is produced and somewhere around 78% of oxygen is needed for the duplicant (laziness is counted for sure :))

And what in the end?
Lazy people can simply spend 214.2kg of Polluted Water on the duplicant and breed only Hatch
Economical - Hatch + Puft or even Hatch + Dense Puft, spending 105-150kg of Polluted Water on the duplicant.
Greedy people can pour water into Oil Well, boil the received oil in a volcano and, accordingly, spend approximately 50 kg of water per cycle on a duplicant.

All in your hands!

[KevinWalter]

15 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

Personally, the Ranching system is incomplete until Pufts and Pacu get an overhaul.  Both are too inefficient to make any significant use of.

Glossy Dreckos, too...They're supposed to be "early game" plastic, but it's actually easier to just go find some petroleum or refine some oil than it is to set up a Drecko farm, given the finnicky nature of trying to keep them in hydrogen to regrow their scales when they don't eat plants that grow in hydrogen.

[KittenIsAGeek]

54 minutes ago, KevinWalter said:

Glossy Dreckos, too...They're supposed to be "early game" plastic, but it's actually easier to just go find some petroleum or refine some oil than it is to set up a Drecko farm, given the finnicky nature of trying to keep them in hydrogen to regrow their scales when they don't eat plants that grow in hydrogen.

Its easier now, with the gas no longer drifting to the sides.  You can put your plants in a cell of oxygen at the floor and have the rest of the room hydrogen -- the Drekos will mostly climb the walls in the hydrogen.

[PhailRaptor]

4 hours ago, KevinWalter said:

Glossy Dreckos, too...They're supposed to be "early game" plastic, but it's actually easier to just go find some petroleum or refine some oil than it is to set up a Drecko farm, given the finnicky nature of trying to keep them in hydrogen to regrow their scales when they don't eat plants that grow in hydrogen.

Interesting that you'd say that, because I've set up quite the successful Drecko stable to harvest Plastic, but I've never been into the Oil Biome.  It's way easier to work with the Dreckos for me.

[Prince Mandor]

6 hours ago, KevinWalter said:

Glossy Dreckos, too...They're supposed to be "early game" plastic, but it's actually easier to just go find some petroleum or refine some oil than it is to set up a Drecko farm, given the finnicky nature of trying to keep them in hydrogen to regrow their scales when they don't eat plants that grow in hydrogen.

What's so "finnicky" ?

Just make entrance to room at ground level, and put some hydrogen inside. Hydrogen naturally raises to top, and bottom will be filled with oxygen or CO2

[Carnis]

18 hours ago, Neotuck said:

The distillery is balanced as is.  If we change it and get too much algea it will unbalance oxygen production.  It would be better to reduce the algae need of the pacus

Distiller is awful.