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23 hours ago, w3amd said:

Optimization is done from the start otherwise the code gets too deep. 

Premature optimization is the root of all evil. Optimizing gameplay that may be thrown away because players don't want it is a waste of time. Complaining about performance in the preview build is a bit silly as it is always tuned for measuring, not performance. Sounds like you've done 30 years of waterfall and 0 years of agile development.

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First of all professional bug tracking is done with professional software. Not in a forum so each item can be tracked, given to a software dev member and given priority by software management controller. Look at how many items are in the bug forum with no response for over 7 months. I do not change my mind about my original post. Ranching II had almost ZERO in house pre testing and worse ZERO out house testing prior to this update and it shows.

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28 minutes ago, w3amd said:

First of all professional bug tracking is done with professional software. Not in a forum so each item can be tracked, given to a software dev member and given priority by software management controller. Look at how many items are in the bug forum with no response for over 7 months. I do not change my mind about my original post. Ranching II had almost ZERO in house pre testing and worse ZERO out house testing prior to this update and it shows.

Ranching Upgrade Mk2 is not out yet!

It's just a beta preview branch

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1 hour ago, w3amd said:

First of all professional bug tracking is done with professional software. Not in a forum so each item can be tracked, given to a software dev member and given priority by software management controller. Look at how many items are in the bug forum with no response for over 7 months. I do not change my mind about my original post. Ranching II had almost ZERO in house pre testing and worse ZERO out house testing prior to this update and it shows.

Ranching Mark II is NOT RELEASED. I work in the professional software(non-game) industry and I have no idea what you mean by "software management controller". Software priority is ultimately driven by the software engineers, not management.

Klei's approach makes sense. People are willing to volunteer to be QA so there is no need to hire more people. This allows them to compete with the big industry on a tiny budget. It's an agile approach to game development. There's also more bug tolerance for games (because they are not critical pieces of software where a tiny bug can cost millions of dollars in damage or lost revenue).

Why buy a license for a "professional bug tracker" when what they use is sufficient for now?

Please read up on agile development, specifically Scrum/Kanban. Priorities shift and assignments are flexible.

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On 2018-04-24 at 3:11 AM, w3amd said:

Invisible dupes, dupes that starve for no reason, performance issues, priority issues and the list goes on.

ONI runs 73 threads and no performance out of them.

Finally, the bug list keeps expanding and devs aren't on top of it.

It’s an experimental-

p r e v i e w branch

you dup. You can’t expect anything to work in it, because in reality, it’s not even made to be played at all. Things break in mysterious ways but it is gonna be  mostly bug free when it is complete. 

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For one question that seemed valid. You would use a professional type version of Bugzilla or Mantis Bug Tracker. No professional company tracks bugs in a forum, ever. This is a good example of what happens when you do so. To complete the example of QA, ask any dev here how many open bugs there are. They don't have count and I realize they haven't been given the proper tools and ONI could be game of the year. But they will fail if they don't get their ducks in order.

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5 minutes ago, w3amd said:

For one question that seemed valid. You would use a professional type version of Bugzilla or Mantis Bug Tracker. No professional company tracks bugs in a forum, ever. This is a good example of what happens when you do so.

How do you know they don't use it?

Forum is for players. There is no need to give them access to internal bug tracker. But that's a good and quick way to interact with developers.

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Forum bug posts aren't added ACKNOWLEDGE, Underway, etc. Tons of forum posts just sitting there, meaningless for over 7 months. That's a problem. What you say is true. It could be brought into in house system. But with software today and websites Klei should be on top of their game and have this system already in place so dev's don't need to double work. I feel for Klei developers bigtime here. They need to be given the best tools for this to work. And this is big for Klei on ONI. They need to start thinking as a huge game developer and not a small one.

 

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At some points "w3amd" is right. The hundreds of bugs listed in the bug tracker, have nothing to do with the MKII state. They are there for months now.

Maybe, some users haven't read the posting from w3amd correctly.

Because the most of them say the standard phrases:

"It's in Early Access..."

"It's a preview release..."

"The man with the criticism is just a grumpy cat (with other words - ah, it's me)"

Just excuses, not more. I like the game, but i am not blind, like the OP.

How many of the critics is a developer ? All of them say, he has not a hunch. Very brave folks! :shock: How long did or do u work as a developer ? It's always the same. It ends in ridiculousness.

And now, love each other and respect each other!

 

 

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We do not know priorities of dev. Some bugs has been fixed (see "bugs" forum), so it's not useless. Some will be fixed later (maybe even on some redesign stage, so no need to fix it know).

Others (and even big developers, look at EA for example) has such forums, because you can't always find all bugs during internal tests. I had some bugs at Star Wars Battle ground for monthes.

And now we talk about Klei... I think they doing a good job. We can't really judge them because we don't work here, we don't know nothing about their internal development stuff. We can just ask for help with bugs, help them to find it and wait for release.

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Most of the bugs in the bug tracker typically fall under 4 categories:

  1. Well documented and fixed in the next release
  2. Extremely vague/poorly documented bugs. Just saying what the bug is. No save file, no output log, no real steps to reproduce, nothing.
    Spoiler

    (Screenshots help, people!)

  3. Duplicate Bugs (Look in the bug reports how many algae terrarium bugs there are, invisible dupes, etc. Basically people all flock and post bugs without checking to see if it's already been reported
  4. Bugs that cannot be replicated. (It's pretty self-explanatory)
Spoiler

Disclaimer:  I'm not saying that's ALWAYS the case, rather that's just how it is MOST of the time.

Put down yer torches and pitchforks people, Christ on a cracker. :wilson_ecstatic:

 

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Not excuses, it's reality. It's clear as day when you buy the game that it's in EA. It's also clear that you have to actively opt into a buggy preview. I don't get all the moaning and groaning. If you want to play a beta game (ie no more changes) play Factorio or Rimworld.

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I'd guess that it's currently a hot button issue. Someone thought arithmetic means were the way to go on this one, even though it completely breaks months of learned gameplay. Geometric looks like it'd solve the issue, but there will still likely be some knock-ons.

A change that big should be part of a bigger patch, not a stop-gap to make radiant pipes work.

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16 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

I was thinking "no one at Klei must be playing/pretesting ONI, before patch is released"..
^^

Why would they? They have us to do the tedious and hard work of actually testing it. Well, had really, I can't see why anyone would want to play the game at all at the moment.

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Absolutely. No one is obligated to play the game in the current state. Yeah it's like I wait for a patch every day and then wonder what broke this time. I do think that their release schedule may be too ambitious, this release seems like it should have stayed internal for a couple more weeks but they've publicly committed to every six weeks so here we are.

 

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