Is the number of Geysers capped in the new update?

[Reaniel]

I noticed that there seem to be a lot fewer geysers after the update in newly generated maps, so I did a quick test by generating 10 new games and locate/count the geysers by revealing the map in debug mode.  It seems that the most you can get in a map now is 5, and I actually got 1 map with just 3...  Is the number now hard-capped at 5 after the patch?  Or is it just being crowded out by ruins generation?

[Risu]

Geysers are no longer spawned like creatures. They are now limited to POI spawns, so geysers and ruins are fighting for the same locations.

Edit: NEVERMIND. Each POI can only occur once on the map. There are 5 geyser POI files so there's your limit.

Here's how it looks when the POI limit is removed

Notice how each biome spawns only one type. Need to shuffle the list when taking one...
It takes the first valid one in the list right now.
 

[Xadhoom]

just 5 geyers... that will make it difficult to make larger bases, as i usually rely on water to make Oxygen. and with slime beeing used as fertilizer i don't want to sacrifice too much of that for alge making either.

seems it will be a real challenge to build a large sustainable base now. my 90+ dupe colony i guess i wont replicate now.

[Risu]

Shuffle added. Much better.
 

Spoiler

 

 

[brummbar7]

I think it's fairly safe to assume that at some point geysers (amongst many other things) are going to be one of the world customization settings. 

[Sevio]

2 hours ago, Xadhoom said:

just 5 geyers... that will make it difficult to make larger bases, as i usually rely on water to make Oxygen. and with slime beeing used as fertilizer i don't want to sacrifice too much of that for alge making either.

seems it will be a real challenge to build a large sustainable base now. my 90+ dupe colony i guess i wont replicate now.

I've seen my single water geyser output on the order of 30 kg/s of water during its water spouting phase though. Not sure what the rate is over a complete cycle but it might be a lot more than the geysers in the previous update. At the high end of systems building, the Thermo Aquatuner offers a way to sustainably boil polluted water without damaging the machine. This allows you to recycle polluted water instead of turning it into fertilizer and natgas, if you so choose.

[Risu]

24 minutes ago, Sevio said:

Not sure what the rate is over a complete cycle but it might be a lot more than the geysers in the previous update.

Average of 4.0278 kg/s for water and 166.6667 g/s for steam.
So 4.1944 kg/s total water mass.

Edit: If you used both steam geysers for farming you could farm 62 bristle blossoms.
 

[GrindThisGame]

I've explored most of my map and haven't found ONE water/steam geyser yet. I think I'm f'd. Anyone else have this issue?

[vonVile]

It happened to me. I ran out of Water causing my colony to die of starvation.

One change Klei made with Steam Geysers is that they are no longer exclusive to the Swamp. They will most likely spawn in the biome with Chlorine and Hydrogen, so look in those areas.

[elexier]

Anyone else found a CHlorine gyzer....

WHY would I want this...so much CHloeine and nothing to do with it

[magei]

6 hours ago, elexier said:

Anyone else found a CHlorine gyzer....

WHY would I want this...so much CHloeine and nothing to do with it

New Building: Ore Scrubber

• Requires Chlorine gas
• Dupes clean germs off the ore they carry as they pass by

Edit: I've yet to find one, I assume they are in the chlorine/hydrogen biome?

[Lifegrow]

Just did some tests on stream with debug - made 4 new worlds, every one had 2:2:1 - that is 2 steam, 2 nat gas, 1 chlorine.

As @Risu has so rightly asserted.

Honestly - I hate this, and i'm hoping to god that some element of random gen will be brought in soon. For me it's really extinguished any desire to go exploring - because I already know exactly what i'm going to get. My viewers very much seemed to agree.

Just so we're clear, I'm not a naysayer of this update - I've loved this stream playthrough so far - however upon learning of the finite spawns in my world, it does leave a bitter taste.

As ever, i'm aware that things are often set to change with early access, and i'm hoping this will be one of them  

[Kasuha]

I don't mind fixed number of geysers, they're still placed randomly so each map requires different approach. It just puts limit on how big a sustainable colony may be. 

 

[Lifegrow]

8 minutes ago, Kasuha said:

I don't mind fixed number of geysers, they're still placed randomly so each map requires different approach. It just puts limit on how big a sustainable colony may be. 

 

You know me Kas, I like to build big, demanding bases. 8kg/s(ish) of water, and 6 NGG worth of natural gas is probably fine for some bases - however when you're trying to build bases that incorporate every aspect of the game - i.e. to showcase the games features to viewers - it soon becomes an issue.

The maths just don't quite work to me - let's say you want a small bristle farm, sleet farm, pincha pepper farm, reasonable electrolyzer setup, fertilizer makers, etc etc. Even with using lavatories, bio-distillers and water purifiers, the water just doesn't seem to amount to much

10* Bristle blossoms = ~1.3kg/s water

20* sleet wheat = ~0.67kg/s water

20* Pincha Peppers = ~1.16kg/s water

5* Electrolyzers = 5kg/s Water

My maths could be a little off here, but as far as I can see, there's your 8kg/s of water. That's just food and oxygen for a small/medium sized colony.

In my opinion - and from what I've seen on twitch, the hard cap on geysers will encourage people to save water on their food by just spamming mealwoods all over the place - which is a negative that was mentioned before the agricultural upgrade. Again, I know this is EA - but it seems like we're being offered more variation within the game, but zero encouragement to utilise it.

Just my 2 cents as ever. 

[chemie]

Agree.  the AU had too many, sometime 3 water geysers in a single biome, but the new outbreak goes to far.  With only 2 water geysers, your base size is severely limited. I have yet to find my chlorine geyser so obviously have my base setup to avoid needing it so I won't use it if I find it now anyway., 

[Kasuha]

3 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

In my opinion - and from what I've seen on twitch, the hard cap on geysers will encourage people to save water on their food by just spamming mealwoods all over the place

I agree with that, and I think eating below expectations should come with worse effects than what it brings now to discourage that approach. 

On the other hand, I am used to creating large bases as well, just with a small number of duplicants. The most I've had so far was 10, it was base spanning whole map and I didn't need more than two geysers of each to run it. Granted, plants need more irrigation now than they used to, but I think 10 dupes is still sustainable and it is enough to build a large base.

Mushrooms are a good endgame food - they meet highest expectations when cooked and they don't need irrigation. You just need constant supply of slime which means careful handling of polluted water and pufts.

[brummbar7]

And I'd just point out something else, we're seeing in this update a consequence of Klei making a lenient early access experience, and then ratcheting up difficulty over time.   The result: lots of complaining about how research time was increased.  complaints about geyser numbers, complaints about 'more obstacles'.  So much complaining about research apparently, that they did a hotfix to back off on that.  This seems to be a real problem where people get used to their cushy EA lives and react poorly to less-cushy change.   Someone who just picked up the game today wouldn't know any better.  Probably wouldn't complain about any of that at all.  They'd definitely complain about a lot of half-implemented mechanics and a lack of info to deal with some obstacles though. 

Maybe Klei decided to seriously consider what they want the difficulty to be and nail it down now, rather than prolonging the pain by ratcheting difficulty up each update.  Because that is not seeming to work out smoothly.   It's very interesting, it seems like you can divide the user base into two camps: those who just want to play with interesting machine mechanics, and don't really want more difficulty to get in the way, and then those who want a game that actually has a challenge and tech gradient over more than a couple hours.  It seems that these two groups have competing demands.  I think it's hard for Klei to satisfy both camps in a timely fashion.  But if anyone can do it, I think Klei can.

[Grimgaw]

We have people complaining about things being hard every update. That's the cost of no tutorial and not reading updates (if you're casual gamer why would you waste time reading 3 pages of 'should's'?).

Fact is farming got massively simplified, and whole point of the update negated with few well placed sanitizers.

I'm happy that we got another system under the hood for the future, but for now this upgrade brings very little new game play while limiting some things that were possible previously. 

[trukogre]

14 hours ago, Grimgaw said:

We have people complaining about things being hard every update. That's the cost of no tutorial and not reading updates (if you're casual gamer why would you waste time reading 3 pages of 'should's'?).

Fact is farming got massively simplified, and whole point of the update negated with few well placed sanitizers.

I'm happy that we got another system under the hood for the future, but for now this upgrade brings very little new game play while limiting some things that were possible previously. 

In AU I plugged up every geyser with abyssalite and then made a 20 dupe base.  I think I made it to cycle 600 before finally running low enough on algae to build electrolyzers.  It would be much harder to do that in OU, a couple sanitizers isn't going to let you just mine out slime biomes one after the other like that.   What's the point of that story.  The point is that the game got much harder to learn with OU, more working systems means more to balance.  You've already learned it, you dismiss it as "a few sanitizers nerfs the whole update", but that's only true because you're able to adapt the rest of your gameplay, or the rest of your gameplay is already optimized enough, that you're able to deal with not mining out slime biomes early, and rush for sanitizers, and etc , etc ,etc, and you're fine.  Klei shouldn't balance the game solely around you, or me, or any one person.  The slime biomes in AU were so easy, they made bad strategies very viable.  The changes to PO2 and diseases effectively changed that, and that matters, even though it doesn't affect you.  I hope the next update gives you what you want, but I'm happy with OU, it needed to happen.

[Chris_Hoefler]

I think we all agree to fact that more customizable options would be a key feature since every player has it's own playstyle and goals. To have more than just 2 nat or steam geysers is essential for a game in a long germ. ... I meant term of course ...

[Whispershade]

On 8/27/2017 at 5:01 AM, Lifegrow said:

10* Bristle blossoms = ~1.3kg/s water

20* sleet wheat = ~0.67kg/s water

20* Pincha Peppers = ~1.16kg/s water

5* Electrolyzers = 5kg/s Water

My maths could be a little off here, but as far as I can see, there's your 8kg/s of water. That's just food and oxygen for a small/medium sized colony.

Air scrubbers are absent, oxygen generation is over generous by a lot. While 5kg/s is closer to 4.5kg of o2, even 4kg/s is enough for 40 dupes. Why grow both blossoms and wheet? You would need more than a whole water geyser to grow enough zero quality blossoms for 10, thats probably the cheapest to meet expectations outside of mushrooms.

I think irrigation requirements are just too heavy and need rebalancing. As it is sleet wheat isnt even worth domesticating.

[asveron]

Wow I finally started playing the new patch today. I still haven't found any geysers after 38 cycles / 5hrs of gameplay T_T.... I'm now tempted to cheat just to know where it is. I wish they were visible in fog of war, maybe visible vibrations ? The sound checking is much harder now since there's a lot of things making weird noises. Diseases, hydrogen and chlorine also really slow down your exploration progress.

On the bright side, has anyone noticed that things seem to take less water? I'm building up polluted water much more slowly and using much less water compared to before. I think the increase in algae has made me much less reliant on water.

Off topic, has anyone opened a door but still can not see inside the ruins? It just stays pitch black for me.

[brummbar7]

2 minutes ago, asveron said:

On the bright side, has anyone noticed that things seem to take less water?

Yes, if you don't do any cooking or showers (neither of which are necessary) and use algae for oxygen - of which there is enormous amounts waiting to be mined in hot biomes - You can go for a very long time on just your starting water.   Guess Immortan Joe was right about water after all!

[Saturnus]

@Lifegrow ... as usual you can supplement the geyser water supply with vomit comets and ugly crier tears.

[trukogre]

On 8/27/2017 at 2:01 AM, Lifegrow said:

You know me Kas, I like to build big, demanding bases. 8kg/s(ish) of water, and 6 NGG worth of natural gas is probably fine for some bases - however when you're trying to build bases that incorporate every aspect of the game - i.e. to showcase the games features to viewers - it soon becomes an issue.

The maths just don't quite work to me - let's say you want a small bristle farm, sleet farm, pincha pepper farm, reasonable electrolyzer setup, fertilizer makers, etc etc. Even with using lavatories, bio-distillers and water purifiers, the water just doesn't seem to amount to much

10* Bristle blossoms = ~1.3kg/s water

20* sleet wheat = ~0.67kg/s water

20* Pincha Peppers = ~1.16kg/s water

5* Electrolyzers = 5kg/s Water

My maths could be a little off here, but as far as I can see, there's your 8kg/s of water. That's just food and oxygen for a small/medium sized colony.

In my opinion - and from what I've seen on twitch, the hard cap on geysers will encourage people to save water on their food by just spamming mealwoods all over the place - which is a negative that was mentioned before the agricultural upgrade. Again, I know this is EA - but it seems like we're being offered more variation within the game, but zero encouragement to utilise it.

Just my 2 cents as ever. 

As Whispershade mentioned, 4.5 kg of oxygen per second is 45 dupes.  I don't think most people in this forum consider 45 dupes to be a small/medium colony, they consider that to be a "so much larger than large that my computer dies trying to run it" size.  To me small is 4-6, medium is 12, large is 20+.  So, let's run the numbers for a medium colony, if we say 12 dupes is medium.  

1 Electrolyzer = 1kg/s water.  The rest comes from your po2 condenser, which you're building because you want to utilize every aspect of the game.

5 bristle blossom = 0.65 kg/s water

10 sleet wheat = .33 kg/s water

5 pincha peppers = .29 kg/s water

10 mealworms  and 10 mushrooms = 0 water, we use these for some of our food because we want to show our viewers every aspect of the game, not just the aspects that use water.  The above food should be plenty for 12 dupes.

bathrooms and showers = these produce more water than they use, once you run the pwater through a boiler, which is now easy to do thanks to the aquatuner.

6 NGGs with gas from 2 NG geysers + carbon skimmer = these produce more water than they use, as above.  

so that's food, oxygen, sanitation and power...that's everything.  I'm not sure you even need a steam geyser at all for this colony, considering that power and sanitation actually produces water, not consumes it.  I think you probably do, I think the production from the last 2 is only about half what you need, although if you do use a steam geyser, then you can run all that pwater into a Fert Maker farm, and run 12 NGGs instead of 6.  I really don't see the problem here, it seems to me that you could run a 24 dupe colony easily off just 1 geyser, and 50 dupes with both; if you're willing to use an equal distribution of food, and not just the water hungry ones.