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      Support Email Error (Zendesk)   08/12/2019

      We are migrating to a new customer support ticketing system (desk.com) and unfortunately while moving over our old tickets the new system (Zendesk) sent an auto reply to "new users". We weren't aware this would happen and so and email was sent out in error. You do not need to create an account and you can ignore the email entirely. You can find more info about this over on our forums here: https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/110413-zendesk/ Sorry for the confusion


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Klei Bug Tracker

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Everything posted by Kasuha

  1. Here's a hamster wheel set at priority 1. If I switch to pipe overlay and mark over it with the deconstruct command (which only marks pipes to deconstruct), it also changes priority of the wheel.
  2. I let this run for about 4 cycles to reach equilibrium. This piece of pipe contains constant stream of 500 g hydrogen packets at about -10 C. It is sitting in about 500 g hydrogen which is constantly replenished from one side and consumed by the pump. Its temperature is about 15 C. The pipe itself is at 10 C. There is 5 C difference between the pipe and 500 g of ambient hydrogen, and 20 C difference between the pipe and 500 g of hydrogen inside the pipe. That means the heat transfer between the pipe and ambient hydrogen is approximately 4 times greater than the heat transfer between the pipe and its contents, even though the same elements are involved in both cases. I see no physics based reason fur such behavior. Assuming it is regular, smooth pipe, the pipe's temperature should be closer to the temperature of its contents. And I strongly believe that with correct implementation of heat transfer in pipes, and using standard physics based tools to configure insulated, regular, and radiant pipes, we would not need such hacks to the game physics like what was introduced in the latest patch.
  3. The problem with radiant pipes is in heat exchange between the pipe and its contents. I suspect it has nothing at all to do with the heat transfer coefficients.
  4. I finally found time and energy to make formal derivation of how the "averaging" should look like (in my opinion, at least). Based on gross simplification, the correct formula is: c(average) = 2*c1*c2/(c1+c2), or 2/(1/c1+1/c2), true harmonic mean. The gross simplification is an assumption that when two materials are involved, then half of the "distance" between the "centers of temperature" is traversed through material using coefficient c1, and half of the distance it goes through material with coefficient c2. This assumption is valid when calculating heat transfer between tiles, but is highly questionable when calculating heat transfer between ambient element and pipe. It still could be used in my opinion. Derivation: Heat exchange occurs between two temperatures, T1 and T2, through materials with heat transport coefficients c1 and c2, over distance (thickness of insulating material) d, and over area s. For single material, the formula is: E = c*(T1-T2)*s/d For two materials, there's another temperature T3 coming into the equation, the temperature on the interface between two materials. And here also comes the assumption that the traversed distance is equal (d/2) for each material E1 = c1*(T1-T3)*s/(d/2) = 2*c1*(T1-T3)*s/d E2 = 2*c2*(T3-T2)*s/d Obviously, E1=E2 From first equation, we can calculate formula for T3: T3 = T1-E1*d/(2*c1*s) With E1=E2, we can plant the second equation in: T3 = T1-(2*c2*(T3-T2)*s/d)*d/(2*c1*s) = T1 - (T3-T2)*c1/c2 and finally T3 = (c1*T1 + c2*T2)/(c1 + c2) Transferred energy then comes as: E1 = 2*c1*(T1-((c1*T1 + c2*T2)/(c1 + c2)))*s/d = (2*c2*c1/(c1+c2))*(T1-T2)*s/d from which we can pull the "average" coefficient c(average) = 2*c2*c1/(c1+c2)
  5. The main issue with pipes was not the lack of combining thermal conductivities (though implementing that correctly would certainly improve the physics of the game too). The main issue with pipes was the fact that the heat exchange between pipe and its contents was order of magnitude smaller than heat exchange between the pipe and the ambient element. Pipes were always almost the same temperature as the ambient element around them, even with significant temperature difference between them and their contents. Radiant pipes only improved heat exchange between their mass and ambient element. That was already very good, so no significant improvement could be achieved. But the heat exchange between the pipe and its contents is still as small as ever, even in radiant pipes. There is either a bug or improper coefficients used in heat exchange between pipes and their contents. Heat exchange occurs through a contact area, and over certain distance. In case of pipes, the contact area should be probably considered the same (inner and outer surfaces are similar) but the distance should be considered much smaller for the contents as it is "densely packed" in the pipe. A regular and especially radiant pipe should always be similar temperature to its contents, not the ambient element.
  6. I'm pretty sure that the best, "most correct" way of "averaging" two heat transfer coefficients c1 and c2 for ONI purposes is: c(average) = 1/(1/c1 + 1/c2) = c1*c2/(c1 + c2) Edit: I was wrong by factor of two - it should probably be standard harmonic mean. See my later post:
  7. That depends on whether devs used the correct average or the wrong average.
  8. Wrangle priority broken (ignored?)

    I believe it's just the bug persisting from the Mk1: Wrangling initiated by the button on the critter's window is not executed. Wrangling initiated by the Wrangle tool will be executed.
  9. Runaway CO2 model

    Your steam chamber is definitely not closed off. There are 'leaks' along the ladders at the very least, so depending on how the steam appears and disappears, it may be pulling air from surrounding rooms and then when the steam develops, compressing that air into single tiles.
  10. Strained status (yellow color) does not mean the wire is overloading or even getting near its maximum load capacity. I believe it just signalizes momentary overhang of consumption over power generation but some things (such as batteries or transformers) are not taken into account there. Don't let it bother you.
  11. Our prayers have been heard! Thanks a ton
  12. Conveyor receptacle storage bar rotated

    The same thing happens with the loader's bar.
  13. Piping and Ventilation System Needs Revamp

    1 to 3 are - I believe - known bugs. There are workarounds for them: 1 has a workaround here: https://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/89362-forking-through-a-bridge-gets-rid-of-the-21-flow-reduction-on-pipe-forks/ 2 can be worked around by splitting the pipe before inputs and leaving just a few or even just one input on each branch 3 can be "solved" by using abyssalite pipes. They don't seem to have the problem. Regarding 4, It is definitely possible to irrigate the wheat with water substantially warmer than 5 C. You don't need to cool the water that much if you manage to cool the wheat. I use water at about 20 C for sleet wheat, and I cool the farm with wheezeworts. Everything works fine, you can check it in the save I posted here: https://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/89644-tamed-and-fully-automated-gold-volcano/?do=findComment&comment=1024570
  14. I did not find a place where to post bug reports related to forums functionality. When I perform a search in ONI forums, it does not return me hits from archived posts. That means I only have chance to find old but often still useful designs using Google. For example searching for Author = Kasuha, search string = "contraption" returns me two hits, but does not return me this post: even though I have all options set to "return everything".
  15. Dupes won't adjust valves

    Try to open the priorities table and give the Toggle job a priority boost.
  16. I have built this contraption to capture and cool production of my gold volcano. It fortunately works well, but I have noticed the weight plate is only registering about 30 kg (may differ between eruptions) while there is about 470 kg of gold sitting on it by the end of eruption. The gold was deposited gradually as the molten gold from the volcano was falling into the pool. Save/load fixes it.
  17. This happened to me with auto-sweeper and polymer press but I believe it happens with other buildings too. If the game is loaded when the building is flooded, it gets the flooded status and stops working. But if the water rises around the building during game, it does not get the flooding status until the game is saved and loaded again. Similarly when lowering the water level - auto-sweeper gets flooded around 300 kg/tile, but if I load the game with it already flooded, removing the water does not help, I must completely dry the place out for the status to disappear. Or save/load the game.
  18. Edit: reason identified (probably). The refinery releases water over 100 C into abyssalite pipe but the pipe does not break and this water is successfully routed to the electrolyzer. When the temperature of water stored in the electrolyzer exceeds 100 C it is released as steam but immediately condenses and that blocks the cell. Maybe not exactly a bug, just inconsistency in machine behavior and in temperature thresholds for state change between different kinds of storage (refinery, pipe, electrolyzer). As a result it gets confusing because the reason is not obvious. Original text follows: I have no idea why it happens and I have no idea how to avoid it but it is at least 100% reproducible (on my PC anyway). I have an electrolyzer cell, it's nicely set up and working for a few hundred cycles already. Suddenly and for no apparent reason, there appears some water at the two bottom electrolyzer tiles. Sometimes some water even floods the gas pump below. The problem is that I have no idea how to avoid it since it persists even through save/load. Well, at least it's reproducible. Laboratory.sav
  19. Lavatories suddenly not accepting water

    First, try to save/load the game. There are multiple issues with the game's piping system recently that get remedied by save/load. Second, don't draw drain pipes through building outputs. When a dupe uses sink/lavatory in the upper floor, its output blocks the sink/lavatory in the bottom floor while the polluted water is traveling over its output. That may get a dupe expelled from the toilet before he did his business and may even make him pass the sink with germs still on him.
  20. Originally there were just four tiles of floor between the pool of polluted water and waterlock, the wall to the right of Otto wasn't there. The pool started overflowing into the waterlock, so I gave my dupes order to mop the floor (all four tiles) and at the same time to build a wall separating the pool. I don't know what exactly happened but I assume Otto started mopping the rightmost tile and while she was at it, some other dupe built a wall there which moved Otto one tile to the left while the "place of mopping" got moved one tile to the right. So now Otto is mopping top layer of the pool while standing safely on dry floor. Unfortunately the situation doesn't survive a save/load cycle so I'm not attaching a save. The job is locked on the gray mop command now embedded in the wall - if I cancel it, Otto stops mopping.
  21. 2000kg of water in 1 tile

    Probably there's a tile of CO2 right above the water and then there's oxygen up above that. The game's physics engine has trouble lifting a gas tile if it can't merge it with another gas tile.
  22. I confirn the problem is still there, I have one food item in ration box that contains germs and I was unable to send it to compost for quite a while. Following @yoakenashi's adivice I was able to select it but it was serious pixel hunt.
  23. Trying to save the cell by painting oxygen over the water in debug mode does not help - it appears again and again. Okay I can confirm that it's done by the electrolyzer. Disabling it prevents that happening, but enabling it makes it happen again. Also the moment it happens the electrolyzer loses all its stored water so it somehow releases that water into the environment. Next observation: I think I understand what's going on. For some reason the water survives transfer through abyssalite pipe even though its temperature is over 100 C and then it gets released by the electrolyzer. So I'm not sure if it still counts as a bug (I guess the water should break the pipe?) but at least I know what to do about it.
  24. Dupe doing disabled priorities

    Must confirm, this is what I got just running that map for a while: Advanced mode is off, but I guess it should not affect the priorities that much...
  25. It also helps if I deconstruct one of the electrolyzers. I made a "minimalistic reproduction". Orientation of elements seems to play a role. This works right: This doesn't work right: The difference is just one more valve added to the bottom inputs branch.