[Game Update] - (BETA) 212539

[KoreanWaffles]

59 minutes ago, Donke60 said:

still waiting for the visual bug to be fixed for Wes where he wears most hats dude goes blind ain't got know eyes
though that might not be a bug but it is certainly a pet peeve of mine.

Wes doesn't need eyes. He's Wes.

[Donke60]

3 hours ago, KoreanWaffles said:

Wes doesn't need eyes. He's Wes.

For me it is really annoying I like his facial expression so having his eyes always covered doesn't look right and it really annoying especially when it comes to "head"  skins.

[V2C]

3 hours ago, jantonio said:

is ok if you go into detail v2c in this note?

Flowers from world gen will eventually respawn if they get picked.  Previously this happened for flowers planted by players and bees as well, which was a problem because then the number of flowers attempting to respawn will keep on growing and growing and growing, which is not good for server performance.

Nothing changed in terms of the actual planting of flowers by bees.  The fix just means that if a bee planted a flower, and then you picked it, the flower won't automatically try to grow back in that spot anymore.

[V2C]

3 hours ago, Tykvesh said:

If the server is already overpopulated with flowers, will converting flowers into evil flowers exclude them from regrowth list?

I believe that should work.

[The Curator]

A feature is something on purpose, a glitch is something not. Just because a glitch hangs around for a long time does not change that it is unintentional. And as one of the developers has already explained very well, there is a process.

Pretty much human nature to try to look for the easiest way through, which is why meta in Player versus Player games is a disease, but regardless of whether or not it is online or offline exploiting unintentional aspects of a system is always cheating. You are not clever for finding a way to break the game, it is not strategy either, it is exploitation that lazy and irresponsible people use to remove sport from the sport. It's all about getting the big numbers and the achieavables for them not the actual experience, which is the point of the game.

Have personally gotten into servers with players that know all the best glitch strats and use them to completely defeat certain game aspects, get some creatures trapped running infinitely against a wall. No. Would still rather play the game with a bunch of complete first-timers then experienced players.

 

[Sinister_Fang]

38 minutes ago, The Curator said:

which is why meta in Player versus Player games is a disease

And that's why it's so fun playing anti-meta. It's usually more fun playing "un-optimally" anyway as it tends to be more of a challenge. That, and it's so fun catching someone off-guard with something they don't see often.

[Donke60]

3 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

And that's why it's so fun playing anti-meta. It's usually more fun playing "un-optimally" anyway as it tends to be more of a challenge. That, and it's so fun catching someone off-guard with something they don't see often.

Don't forget the joke characters
or what was it a zelda "no sword run"

[Sinister_Fang]

Just now, Donke60 said:

or what was it a zelda "no sword run"

Ha. That's funny how you mention this. I'm actually in the middle of doing exactly that on the original Legend of Zelda.

[Donke60]

3 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Ha. That's funny how you mention this. I'm actually in the middle of doing exactly that on the original Legend of Zelda.

Tell me how it goes I'm trying to beat zelda 2

[Sudura2017]

5 hours ago, Electroely said:

(Maybe years)

FTFY

 

[FreyaMaluk]

7 hours ago, V2C said:

• Fixed bug where Poison Birchnut Trees will never resume combat once they have gone off-screen once.

This one I'm definitely gonna miss... damn!

Bye bye, dear exploit. It was fun while it lasted!

Edited April 4, 2017 by FreyaMaluk

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

@JoeW Here's the thing; people need a lot of pig skin, because football helmets (unless you are/you have a Wigfrid coming in regularly) and umbrellas. That's partly why the fire farm in single player is used and why moon stone pig skin exploit (which takes time to set up, actually) are used to obtain pig skins. What's more, is that pig houses themselves require 4 pig skin to craft, so you would need to kill on average 16 pigs to build ONE HOUSE, and if you have that many houses, that means you'll get 1 house worth of pig skin per 4 days at max, or less than that and you might take a whole season to get enough for another house!

Pigs respawn only every 4 days, unlike bunnies who respawn every day. Pig houses will get destroyed due to newbs and trolls and by accidents and they are not respawning, so you'll either have low amounts of pig skin constantly, with many players not getting any at all, or you will essentially have no way obtaining any of it at all unless console is used.

While making sure you don't let players cheese the game, give players an ensuring alternative as well, instead of getting rid of the cheese strat, leaving players with nothing but suffering that creates conflict and despair among players. What you could do if these two methods are patched out for the respective games?

* Make pigs respawn every day instead of every 4

* Make the world-generated houses (including bunny and merm ones) part of world regrowth in some form (DST only, I guess)

* Increase the chances of getting a pig skin from killing a pig, because goddamn does it take too many to kill on average for a few pig skins (4 for one). Yes, you can werepig one, although that doesn't seem to be the reason why the werepigging mechanic exists and just feels like another mechanic cheese. May be if pigs dropped 1 meat, 1 pig skin each every time or so, it would be less of a hassle for newbies to get football helmets and umbrellas as well as werepig mechanic working a bit more like a thing you don't want to really achieve.

So don't just make exploits a priority if there are no other good ways of getting something normally; prioritise also to improve the ways of getting things normally, so we don't set up some cheaty farms or have to be so cautious to a point where the purpose of the game may get thrown out the window because an essential resource might get extinct.

Edited April 4, 2017 by EuedeAdodooedoe

[HeilerderWelten]

22 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

@JoeW Here's the thing; people need a lot of pig skin, because football helmets (unless you are/you have a Wigfrid coming in regularly) and umbrellas. That's partly why the fire farm in single player is used and why moon stone pig skin exploit (which takes time to set up, actually) are used to obtain pig skins. What's more, is that pig houses themselves require 4 pig skin to craft, so you would need to kill on average 16 pigs to build ONE HOUSE, and if you have that many houses, that means you'll get 1 house worth of pig skin per 4 days at max, or less than that and you might take a whole season to get enough for another house!

Pigs respawn only every 4 days, unlike bunnies who respawn every day. Pig houses will get destroyed due to newbs and trolls and by accidents and they are not respawning, so you'll either have low amounts of pig skin constantly, with many players not getting any at all, or you will essentially have no way obtaining any of it at all unless console is used.

While making sure you don't let players cheese the game, give players an ensuring alternative as well, instead of getting rid of the cheese strat, leaving players with nothing but suffering that creates conflict and despair among players. What you could do if these two methods are patched out for the respective games?

* Make pigs respawn every day instead of every 4

* Make the world-generated houses (including bunny and merm ones) part of world regrowth in some form (DST only, I guess)

* Increase the chances of getting a pig skin from killing a pig, because goddamn does it take too many to kill on average for a few pig skins (4 for one). Yes, you can werepig one, although that doesn't seem to be the reason why the werepigging mechanic exists and just feels like another mechanic cheese. May be if pigs dropped 1 meat, 1 pig skin each every time or so, it would be less of a hassle for newbies to get football helmets and umbrellas as well as werepig mechanic working a bit more like a thing you don't want to really achieve.

So don't just make exploits a priority if there are no other good ways of getting something normally; prioritise also to improve the ways of getting things normally, so we don't set up some cheaty farms or have to be so cautious to a point where the purpose of the game may get thrown out the window because an essential resource might get extinct.

"so you would need to kill on average 16 pigs to build ONE HOUSE"

Just feed 4 pigs monster meat and you get your 4 pig skin and 16 meat from were pigs.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

9 minutes ago, HeilerderWelten said:

"so you would need to kill on average 16 pigs to build ONE HOUSE"

Just feed 4 pigs monster meat and you get your 4 pig skin and 16 meat from were pigs.

I did mention the werepig method, read through my post again to see what I have to say about that.

Also, how would newbies ever find out about the werepig method exactly through their own testing? Or comprehend it at least. It's the same problem as with ant lion, you just can't really know unless you read the wiki or whatever.

Edited April 4, 2017 by EuedeAdodooedoe

[Captain_Rage]

Yeah, feed them some monster meat and you are guaranteed pig skins. There are many videos on Youtube where players explore the map, set up a base, go and hammer down most of the pig houses they found and rebuild them next to their base. They place a piece of non-perishable food fenced in in the middle of the pig houses. Now the pigs will try to reach the food and just stay there. It allows you to befriend 2-3 pigs and attack the other, starting a massive civil skirmish. This is really, really easy and fast to set up and you shouldn't have any trouble with pig skin logistics afterwards. You can still feed a single pig monster meat and turn it into a werepig, at any time. Beware of Deerclops, though.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

1 minute ago, Captain_Rage said:

Yeah, feed them some monster meat and you are guaranteed pig skins. There are many videos on Youtube where players explore the map, set up a base, go and hammer down most of the pig houses they found and rebuild them next to their base. They place a piece of non-perishable food fenced in in the middle of the pig houses. Now the pigs will try to reach the food and just stay there. It allows you to befriend 2-3 pigs and attack the other, starting a massive civil skirmish. This is really, really easy and fast to set up and you shouldn't have any trouble with pig skin logistics afterwards. You can still feed a single pig monster meat and turn it into a werepig, at any time. Beware of Deerclops, though.

Precisely; beware of deerclops and otherwise that can make your pig skin supply plummet because the houses don't frickin' respawn.

Also, I've found that using the moon stone strat has so far been the only time that we could provide everyone with enough helmets and umbrellas. Take public servers into account please, game needs balancing to help out there as well, you know.

[56933043043]

29 minutes ago, HeilerderWelten said:

"so you would need to kill on average 16 pigs to build ONE HOUSE"

Just feed 4 pigs monster meat and you get your 4 pig skin and 16 meat from were pigs.

Personally, I like to get an amount of monster meat equal to the number of Werepigs I want, befriending that number of pigs, then going with them to the hound mounds in the desert, where the pigs overwhelm the hounds and get me all the monster meat I need to transform them.

[DatShadowJK]

I'm fine with whatever you chuck at me, it will not stop me from finding new exploits. Pls no ban

[The Curator]

58 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

So don't just make exploits a priority if there are no other good ways of getting something normally; prioritise also to improve the ways of getting things normally, so we don't set up some cheaty farms or have to be so cautious to a point where the purpose of the game may get thrown out the window because an essential resource might get extinct.

Yes, the community has already made it abundantly clear that they want the game to be easy; despite the fact that the game is literally designed to be difficult. But, balance is a priority in average games which is why players are not god; because that defeats the experience. But in this game, which is meant to be difficult and unforgiving, everybody wants all the characters to be super heroes so there's no challenge at all. So, in an average game being average power is fine; but in a difficult game you need to be god. Well why the hell are you playing a difficult game then, this is the point of the game; difficulty.

Plenty of resources in the game can go extinct, and the developers have made no effort to design a system to renew them. Make it so if the amount of a certain thing such as spider nests, hound mounds, pig houses, bunny hutches, moleworm mounds and so on in the world goes below a set number; new ones will be periodically generated in to replenish the population. No, the developers cannot be bothered.

Plenty of ways that players can harass each other, and the developers have made no effort to counter it. Just keep the voting system a complete piece of amateurish trash that allows any person to exploit it with ease. Making it so that new players in older servers cannot vote for a significant period of time. Change certain official servers to disallow regeneration so people can actually opt out of that garbage. Anything, any changes to improve the system. No, just like fixing Willow; not happening. Too much work to make the game more enjoyable.

 

But suddenly now, with pigs, none-renewable key resources and malicious players is a mentionable issue.

Well believe it or not both of these problems are extremely prevalent in the game under the right situations as the aforementioned rant details. The current developer recommended solution,

get over it.

[JohnWatson]

Team Fortress 2, along with other GoldSrc (heavily modified Quake engine) and Source games, have manoeuvres such as rocket-jumping, grenade-jumping, conc-jumping, air-strafing, bunny-hopping, shield-turning, ramp-sliding, any many more. Many players now would call these manoeuvres mechanics intended by the developers.

And for TF2, they currently are, these mechanics have been embraced because the developers saw their potential. These manoeuvres are used extensively by the competitive communities and the speedrun communities in those games. Those mechanics significantly increased the skill ceiling and longevity of any game that had them. If they were removed, then the skilled players in those games will fade away along with it. Imagine TF2 without rocket-jumping and air-strafing.

The thing is though, those mechanics were, at first, never intended by the developers. Nobody coded the Doom engine to intentionally have rocket-jumping. No developer had the intentions of air-strafing in Source, they never specifically coded that manoeuvre into the game. Those mechanics were byproducts. They were unforeseen. They are exploits.

But if these were exploits, then why weren't they patched out? That's because the developers saw potential in them. They embraced these exploits and encouraged skilled players to learn these mechanics. Not only did these exploits not ruin the games, these exploits were actually for the better. A game's skill ceiling is a crucial factor for its longevity. Again, imagine these games without these unintended mechanics. Imagine TF2 without rocket-jumping and air-strafing. Sometimes we should see the potential in things before shunning them.

A skilled player isn't someone that performs an easy task the difficult way. A skilled player is someone that finds the easiest way to perform a difficult task.

Edited April 4, 2017 by JohnWatson
forgot a full stop

[The Curator]

9 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

A skilled player isn't someone that performs a task the difficult way. A skilled player is someone that finds the easiest way to perform a task.

Video games incorporate a vast amount of different elements in both design, cognitive and kinetic requirements on the part of the player. Attributing the word skill to the highly arbitrary, subjective, and generally unknown concept of playing video games; which in themselves are a colossal category, is a superficial and insecure method in which people attempt to validate the value of playing games which are fundamentally without ethical meaning.

You cannot brush over playing video games as any form of skill, because of the sheer diversity of the concept. Real skills are extremely obvious and honed aspects of the human existence. Video games are not even remotely linear as a practice. There are hundreds of factors that can influence how well a person plays each game. From having good reaction times, having played the game for dozens of hours, having played that type of game a lot as a child. Some of these are real physical talents, some are not. And regardless, measuring talent as something to brag over is pathetic.

Finding the easiest way to solve a task is how a person moves forward efficiently in life. Finding the easiest way to solve a task is subjectively admirable. Video games are meant for fun, people exploit them to remove the experience and replace it with easy reward in a practice that already requires no effort and is meant for fun. An act of laziness, irresponsibility and gluttony for the chemical satisfaction of feeling gain and progress. Something humans are inherently designed to want.

There are two sides to the action. Some will search for an easier solution in order to better accomplish their challenge. Others will search for an easier solution in order to remove the requirement of effort so they can get fat off the feeling of gain. It is perseverance and ingenuity versus sloth and greed. These are fundamentally different and identifiable inter-workers for the same act. But a highly simple way of identifying them, even for a fool, is that petty methods often work in petty environments. Such as, video games. A recreational activity designed to occupy humans in their spare time due to the human design to constantly need to work and progress. There is a reason why the term keyboard warrior is a joke. Because they are not warriors, but they behave like one because they are just that wretched.

 

But it is all just the endless struggle to satisfy chemicals. And so, humans attribute and contort all manner of things in order to satisfy themselves more. Like believing that a digital three sixty no scope means a single damn thing. Or paid League of Legends players have sk1llZ because they are good at a simple game they play constantly every day for cash. Of course they are good at it. They have spent dozens of hours playing and memorizing a game that already has a bare-bones MOBA combat system. You would need to be handicapped to not be able to develop a proficiency at something you do repetitiously, that is already a simple task.

Yes, you have triggered this multi paragraph not-completely-on-topic semantic trap by uttering the poisonous word of skill in relation to a video game. And the trap maker has already left this building.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

@JohnWatson By definition, skill doesn't mean the knowledge of something, but the ability to do something. Kiting is both knowledge, but also a skill, you can't do it right away as you find out about it well, you need to practice over time. I did for Dragonfly, I know that. Feeding pigs to werepig them isn't a skill, it's a knowledge. And again, using that to gain guaranteed pig skin, when its seeming intended purpose was making sure you don't overfeed your friendly pigs with monster meat. And even then, doing so doesn't really compensate for pig skin for everyone because pigs respawn so slowly.

[StretchVanb]

I know people won't listen to me because I was being a condescending jerkwad, but can we not get into a argument over skill or let 3-saxty Na-scapes over something as ridiculous as poison birchnut farms? I would like this community to be semi unified.

[Mr.Tarunio]

even if this bug was not patched, i would still use the stalker too chop a massive forest only to get like 5 stacks of living logs.......then the stalker would die then earth quakes would happen then i'd cry. but they patched that and im happy <3.

[Donke60]

4 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

But if these were exploits, then why weren't they patched out? That's because the developers saw potential in them

I would say that about fire farms if Kiel told us "its not a bug anymore think of it as a feature" but they haven't. Every says that the exmaples you just said and they are good examples but DS and something of TF2 which has a more competitve skill heavy atmosphere. Also is an entire different genre of game. I'm not saying all the "strats" the the pro players in the DS commuity should go and get patched out to make me a happy bugger. I'm fine and I like looking at solo boss contraptions. What I'm not fine with are things that really are bugs perma freeze, guardian getting stuck on objects to easily, infinte laterns, If a bug is really hard to pull off and excute  I don't mind those bugs because if they are that hard to do then you should be rewarded for your skills. But most bugs in DS aren't like that they can completely triviaize parts of the game and all you have to have is 1 to 2 things and your golden. Thats my problem with the bugs of DS