Everything useless in DST/DS

[CaptainChaotica]

(slow clap, speeding up to a very loud & fast one like that cliche in movies)

BRAVO, Halcyon.  Bravo.

...Notorious

[Clwnbaby]

*cracks knuckles*

Step aside people, I got this one.  First and foremost the “usefulness” of any particular gear and item is dependent on the players and their play styles and it almost impossible to say something is or isn’t useful.  My observations, contrary to yours, show that EVERYTHING is useful given the right situation and long enough time.  Another thing is that there are more people than just you playing on a server and they all aren’t as lucky as you appear to be so they don’t have the Krampus sack, eyebrella, hibernation vest, and feathers & scales galore that you seem to acquire on day 1.  Just because you can’t seem to find a use for an item doesn’t mean that ALL THE OTHER PLAYERS on the server can’t or don’t.   All that being said I’m gonna go through your list and tear MOST of it apart just to demonstrate.  Let’s begin:

Spoiler

*Night Lights- Not even in single player is this useful.  A total waste of time, resources, and most importantly Nightmare Fuel.  I agree get rid of this or repurpose it (which I suggested on the suggestion forums FOREVER ago)

*Insulated Pack- Again worthless!  People like it, and you can defend it, but overall it’s just a waste compared to the hibernation vest

Here is where things will begin to change

*Weather Pain- Buffing it will make it too OP.  This is an AWESOME tool and is fine the way it is.  You finding it an “unreliable weapon” speaks more about you than it.  As for making horns and gears “more accessible” there are plenty in the desert try searching and don’t kill all your volt goats.  Problem solved. 

*Broken Shells- meh ya worthless unless you want to go fern crazy which some players do (again you’re not alone on the server)

*Shelmet- I laughed really hard reading your comments on this.  Man you must just tank everything and never kite.  The only thing “unreliable” about this item IS the drop rate.  Way to low I think given how many you have to kill to get 1.  Also you mention there is no other head armor with its protection amount, not true.  Wigrids helms provide the exact same amount, and since this is Together, you can find a Wig to make you some.  The durability is what is key for the Shelmet.  It’s supposed to be used paired with the Shell armor.  The increased durability allows for the shell armor to last longer and since you seem to love to tank (again just saying that based on your comments) shell armor would be like gold for you.

*Ferns- its aesthetic  yo, not supposed to have a use.

*Belt of Hunger, Summer Frest, Rain Coat, and all other torso-related clothing-  Again you’re not the only person on the server and MOST players don’t grind for the Krampus sack so……. ALL of these things have TONS of uses.  I see ALL of them used ALL of the time myself included.  Hell if I spring spawn, rain coat is the first thing I make because it’s so cheap and easy.   As for Belt of Hunger, this is mostly a Wolfgang pro item as it allows you to maintain your mighty form longer.  Outside of him yeah I never really see a need to slow hunger with other characters……..but that doesn’t mean other players don’t

*Darts- Yeah these took a serious nerf in Together but not for the manner you describe.  You describe the giants as “mobs” and these “mobs” are not the creatures you use darts for so I can see your frustration there.   Also given the resource investment required to make darts and the high demand for said resources, darts are less more desirable in Together than in single player.  Single Player they are hands down the best weapon to make, provided you use them properly and on the correct “mobs”

*Bunny Puff- Agreed that the amount you acquire in the end game gets ridiculous and they aren’t even burnable so disposing of them gets annoying.  As for the fur roll, again you’re not alone on the server and other people DO use them…….just not enough and fur rolls have the benefit of multiple uses.

*Butter (and snake oil since the same argument applies and I’m only addressing Together stuff) - Either you get the joke or you don’t, but it’s a joke dude.  It’s not meant to be game breaking or UBER useful, it’s meant to be a joke.

*Fireflies- These are renewable in Single player.  They are part of the tumbleweed drop table, or at least were.  As for your complaint……. I don’t get it.  It’s a firefly dude.  Seems like you’re just trying to complain to complain on this one.  Again everything in the game can’t be UBER OP and game breaking

 

*edit- see next response for the rest of the list.  It won't let me post it in one thread for some reason

Well that is all the Together content.  I’m only tackling the Together stuff because most of it ignores that fact that other people than you are playing on the server at a time.  Unless you only play private servers alone or with 1 or 2 friends in which case disregard everything said and in fact TLDR.  As for your single player rants and complaints, again that’s all dependent on the player’s play style and conditions and can’t be covered by an all encompassing umbrella like you would like.  Hope you enjoy this and I REALLY hope you and maybe others learned from it.

-Cheers!

[Clwnbaby]

For some reason I can't post my whole response. I keep getting errors and what not.  here's the rest:

*Chester- again, complaining to complain.  He DOES teleport to you now in single player and multiplayer, unless he get stuck behind a rock or tree.

*Glommer- See Chester.  Also his goop is the main beneficial resource not his sanity aura.

*Foliage- it’s part of the potted fern recipe.  It’s just the cave flower and isn’t supposed to server some game breaking purpose.

*Gunpowder- Yeah a bit useless in Together basically because of strength in numbers and what not but again just because you or I don’t use it doesn’t mean others don’t.

*Pan Flutes- This is a strong item and it seems your complaint is directed more about mandrakes than the flute.  Yes mandrakes are limited but given the strength of them that’s why.  Things that are powerful are rare on purpose.  Just because griefers and noobs ruin these resources doesn’t mean they should be easier to come by

*Tents and Siesta Lean-tos- um….. this didn’t even seem like a complaint and it’s a weak @$$ one at that seeing as how you can’t even deny they have a use.  Not useless in the least, in fact the opposite super useful and used ALL THE TIME by EVERYONE.

*Killer Bees and Mosquitoes as items- huh?

*Bee Mines- agreed useless

*The Lazy Forager- Had this weird complaint thread been made a few months ago I may have agreed with you about it being useless but now with rideable beefalo, VERY useful.  I don’t know about you but I hate getting off my beefalo all the time to pick up some loot that dropped or 1 item or something I find.  With the lazy forager I don’t have to get off my beefalo anymore.  Now sure it’s a very limited and specific use but I have incorporated the Lazy Forager into my play ever since I started ridding beefalo.

*Various crock pot foods as well as some general foods- *facpalm* variety yo.  There are all sorts of recipes to accomplish the same things with different resources because people don’t always have what they need when they need it.  The variety of recipes and foods is to allow multiple paths to the same goal.

*Marble Suit and Marble- Again everything can’t be super OP game breaking, it’s just another piece of variety.  That being said…. Yeah I see it as useless as well.  I used to use it as Wendy in single player to tank when I went on murder rampages with Abi but in Together not even an issue

*One Man Band- Yeah useless

*Ice Cube- Yeah it was broken when it was introduced and then nerfed so hard that only one player is worth using it with, and that is Maxwell.  Otherwise yeah we can place it in the useless category

*Fashion Melon- You can grow more watermelons dude stop complaining.  Everything can’t be broken AF

*Nightmare Amulet- Single player USELESS; Together, SUPER useful.  This thing is worth its weight in gold.  The great part about the amulet is not having to sacrifice sanity for nightmare fuel.  The key to its awesomeness is OTHER PLAYERS.  You don’t farm nightmare fuel alone you have 2 or 3 people help you.  When you do this you get the value of the amulet back 10 fold.  We once farmed 120 nightmare fuel off 1 amulet.  Saves a lot of time in the long run.

*Pick/Axe- It’s a late game item dude.  It’s not meant to be game breaking and you should be at a point where you don’t really need to chop or mine that much at all.  It’s a late game item that allows you to carry 2 tools in 1.  I think an axe shovel would have been a better combo personally.

*Pumpkin lantern- Yeah useless, purely aesthetic and not even well done.

*Red Cap – (I’ve been waiting this whole time for this one!!!)  Its only use IS NOT filler.  Red caps have many uses in Together on top of filler.  I once did a whole stream/play through where I played as a pacifist.  How do you kill things when you can’t fight?  Feed them red caps.  Yeah its time consuming and not really practical in a normal play though but I learned so much about the usefulness of red caps that its part of my starting resources gathering list.  13 red caps= 1 dead beefalo. 

*Slurper Pelt- Um yeah, see Belt of Hunger

*Walls- Yeah it was too long and I didn’t read it.  The fact that walls are the list at all means you have a lot to learn about Don’t Starve if you can’t find a use for walls.  Off the top of my head I can think of a dozen things to use them for that don’t involve anything you were complaining about.  Seems like a complaint to complain.

*Rain Hat- Way too expensive and labor intensive for not even 100% wetness protection.  Make a rain coat.

[McLovinDST]

EuedeAdobedoewhathever is segregating caps depending on their color. I'm a part of the red caps matter movement and i feel really offended!

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

Okay, this is just becoming stupid. I'll rewrite what I wrote and archive the wall into a pack of an unworthy spoiler, how's that?

So much misunderstanding, I can't even...

[Rellimarual]

The main worth of this topic is getting to read everyone's unusual strats. I'd really like to hear more about how a Wes can solo kill Bearger with red caps, please. 

Personally, I use torso slot items all the time: floral shirt, raincoat, hibearnation vest. It's all about planning, foresight and inventory management and the challenge is what makes it fun. A thing that seems relatively useless to me given how much time and effort goes into getting it?: Krampus sack. I've never had one and never missed it. 

I also never sleep and rarely make cooling foods. I've never made an ice cube or watermelon hat. I'm pretty sure you could count on one hand the number of times I've used a dark sword. I've never used shadow armor, though I made it once because it looks cool. Ive never been much of a base builder, so I haven't done much with walls, but I'm thinking of changing that. I've had 500-day runs that I ended out of boredom, so for me, none of this stuff is particularly useful. That doesn't mean any of it is broken.

Most of the useful items have trade-offs; otherwise they'd be too easy. Instead of concluding that various torso item are useless, think about how you might alter your play style to make use of them. I'm still learning new things about this game all the time, and your problem seems to be that if you don't understand some aspect of the game or how to use it, you conclude it has no merit. 

Ordinarily, I would recommend that people who find the OP's manner annoying just ignore his topics and move on, but I have to admit that this thread does have useful information in it when those who know the game better have taken the trouble to explain it to him.

Like I said, I'd love to get more details on using red caps to kill Bearger!

[Herbalist]

I agree with a lot of the things. Spelling error in the ice cube section (is* instead of it*) loving the mandrake idea. But I use a love of things like raincoat , lazy forager for wicker tentacle spike farm.. To get the meat from pig when running thru so I don't get hit. I agree mandrake should be renewable that would be pretty awesome . But maybe 1% from bird cage other wise you could just have mandrKe soup for Days... I love belt of hunger w Wolfgang although it smashes through durability way to quickly and takes like 10 sewing kits a year ... I love the wall idea they needa do something with walls it pisses me off beardger spawns right inside base.. Same as clops ... It's bull... I have walls built around base thousands ... And hounds and bosses are just freely spawned inside??? Come on ! There was more to say but can't remember anyways great thread and ty for these ideas . 

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

2 hours ago, Rellimarual said:

The main worth of this topic is getting to read everyone's unusual strats. I'd really like to hear more about how a Wes can solo kill Bearger with red caps, please. 

Personally, I use torso slot items all the time: floral shirt, raincoat, hibearnation vest. It's all about planning, foresight and inventory management and the challenge is what makes it fun. A thing that seems relatively useless to me given how much time and effort goes into getting it?: Krampus sack. I've never had one and never missed it. 

I also never sleep and rarely make cooling foods. I've never made an ice cube or watermelon hat. I'm pretty sure you could count on one hand the number of times I've used a dark sword. I've never used shadow armor, though I made it once because it looks cool. Ive never been much of a base builder, so I haven't done much with walls, but I'm thinking of changing that. I've had 500-day runs that I ended out of boredom, so for me, none of this stuff is particularly useful. That doesn't mean any of it is broken.

Most of the useful items have trade-offs; otherwise they'd be too easy. Instead of concluding that various torso item are useless, think about how you might alter your play style to make use of them. I'm still learning new things about this game all the time, and your problem seems to be that if you don't understand some aspect of the game or how to use it, you conclude it has no merit. 

Ordinarily, I would recommend that people who find the OP's manner annoying just ignore his topics and move on, but I have to admit that this thread does have useful information in it when those who know the game better have taken the trouble to explain it to him.

Like I said, I'd love to get more details on using red caps to kill Bearger!

The torso slot items, I too generally realize that it mostly depends on the playstyle (well, except for armours, as putting them on and dropping your backpack whilst you need to use it seems to work well), so perhaps it was a bit stupid calling them useless.

As for most items... if you mean the ones I mentioned and ones that really are pretty useless... there's always trade-offs. But some items have better trade-offs than others, which is what makes certain other items useless. Imagine there were no backpacks, no torso clothing etc. This would make the Belt of Hunger a must-have item. But since there's items that provide much better trade-offs, such as Backpack or Krampus sack providing extra inventory for a bunch more stuff, nothing else can compare much. Why do you think so many people use backpacks basically all the time in PvP? They need the inventory space. If you're going nomad, you need the inventory space. If you're just sorting stuff at base, you need the inventory space. If you're bringing stuff over from one place to another... you need the inventory space. Nothing quite compares with the inventory space! If, say torso slot items provided some inventory space, so for instance, a puffy vest would add 3 more inventory space or something, then it might be a bit better of an idea to use the item for torso slot. There's no head or hand slot items that provide inventory space and for many 15 inventory space and 3 equip slots isn't good enough, considering that just the essentials take up a whole bunch of inventory space.

What is wrong with my manner? I am not insulting anybody? I am just being negative and criticising things. What is wrong with that? It's as if you're making personal attacks at me without saying it directly.

Red caps to kill Bearger... you'd have to walk around the world, pick up all the red caps, wait for it to rain and pick them all once again to have anywhere close to enough to kill Bearger. Or I guess you could pick them up from the caves in red shroom biome... but what's the point in the effort of that if you can just pick up an armour or two, a tentacle spike or two and just melee kite the big bad bear? See, this is what I'm talking about; there's always trade-offs, but some are better than others, making the items of those others less useful and with the right conditions, making them useless. Imagine if in a no-cave world, fires and firepits didn't exist other than the night light; there'd be night lights everywhere, constantly used by everybody and being insane would probably even become the best thing ever as a state to be in.

[Clwnbaby]

@Rellimarual Bearger with Red Caps:  It goes as follows.  Find the Red mushtree biome in the caves.  2-3 days prior to the end of summer go there and pretty much cut them ALL down as it will take 250 red caps to kill the Bearger.  Then once he spawns place em in front of him and whalla! dead Bearger.  No joke, it actually works.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

21 minutes ago, Clwnbaby said:

@Rellimarual Bearger with Red Caps:  It goes as follows.  Find the Red mushtree biome in the caves.  2-3 days prior to the end of summer go there and pretty much cut them ALL down as it will take 250 red caps to kill the Bearger.  Then once he spawns place em in front of him and whalla! dead Bearger.  No joke, it actually works.

Cut them all down? They won't regrow after that. Just harvest the red shrooms, so you can keep doing it over and over and over and ove...

[Joachim]

Killing Bearger with red caps is just brilliant.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

10 minutes ago, Joachim said:

Killing Bearger with red caps is just brilliant.

V('^')V still very inefficient, though. You'd need 300 to bring his hp down to 0 in DST. Going by that strat, it would be more efficient to simply feed him monster meat instead; think about the amount of spiders you probably have in the world.

[Joachim]

7 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

V('^')V still very inefficient, though. You'd need 300 to bring his hp down to 0 in DST.

I know, but that doesn't matter. I like creative ways of killing bosses.

[CaptainChaotica]

You know what some of the less 100% optimized UBER-EFFICIENT(tm) things in Don't Starve can be good for?

Themed challenges!  If nothing else.  For example, take the killing the Bearger with red caps strategy listed just above.  In my "We Don't Need No Education" challenge (where you're not allowed to make a science machine or anything higher)...tooth traps are not available. Gunpowder is not available. Fancy things like Shootius's and such are not available.

But you CAN make axes to cut down mushtrees, and torches to see them by.

So there you go!  I personally didn't live long enough to make it to my second fall and _see_ the Bearger, but if I DID...

Similarly, others of the things on your list might come in handy for someone deliberately looking for a challenge.  If the expected, standard, best/usual way of doing something isn't available...what else can you use?  You start looking into the quirkier, odder parts of the crafting menu. You start thinking outside of your usual playstyle box.  Etc.

And even if you DON'T want to do a special challenge, I bet there's _someone_ out there for EVERY item in the game. Somebody likes and uses _the_ most obscure thing, all the time.  Because it fits their playstyle preferences, or they find it more fun, or whatever.

Also ditto on the Krampus Sack.  I have only ever spawned him once! and I don't miss it. Also, having to take off your backpack to put on the armour can actually be _helpful_ when hounds are coming.  Say you have Chester and/or Glommer with you.  And you don't want them to die.  Put both their things in the backpack, shuck it off for the logsuit, and then go away a bit to meet the hounds. Since their things are in the backpack and the backpack isn't with you, your fuzzy companions are way less likely to die!  It also helps with not losing your pack and anything flammable in it to fire hounds.

...Notorious

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

38 minutes ago, CaptainChaotica said:

You know what some of the less 100% optimized UBER-EFFICIENT(tm) things in Don't Starve can be good for?

Themed challenges!  If nothing else.  For example, take the killing the Bearger with red caps strategy listed just above.  In my "We Don't Need No Education" challenge (where you're not allowed to make a science machine or anything higher)...tooth traps are not available. Gunpowder is not available. Fancy things like Shootius's and such are not available.

But you CAN make axes to cut down mushtrees, and torches to see them by.

So there you go!  I personally didn't live long enough to make it to my second fall and _see_ the Bearger, but if I DID...

Similarly, others of the things on your list might come in handy for someone deliberately looking for a challenge.  If the expected, standard, best/usual way of doing something isn't available...what else can you use?  You start looking into the quirkier, odder parts of the crafting menu. You start thinking outside of your usual playstyle box.  Etc.

And even if you DON'T want to do a special challenge, I bet there's _someone_ out there for EVERY item in the game. Somebody likes and uses _the_ most obscure thing, all the time.  Because it fits their playstyle preferences, or they find it more fun, or whatever.

Also ditto on the Krampus Sack.  I have only ever spawned him once! and I don't miss it. Also, having to take off your backpack to put on the armour can actually be _helpful_ when hounds are coming.  Say you have Chester and/or Glommer with you.  And you don't want them to die.  Put both their things in the backpack, shuck it off for the logsuit, and then go away a bit to meet the hounds. Since their things are in the backpack and the backpack isn't with you, your fuzzy companions are way less likely to die!  It also helps with not losing your pack and anything flammable in it to fire hounds.

...Notorious

Everything instead of the stuff in bold: that is not a reason to keep those things as useless as they are at the moment.

The stuff in bold: I already know that and I think I myself mentioned that somewhere here as well.

[Faintly Macabre]

48 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Everything instead of the stuff in bold: that is not a reason to keep those things as useless as they are at the moment.

Says you.

[Mikeadatrix]

32 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Says you.

[Quyzbuk]

Instead of trying to have Klei make the characters able to MacGyver everything into something stupidly useful, and make item tiers as black and white as an MMO, let's try to remember this is a WILDERNESS SURVIVAL game. This is a genre where there is supposed to be risk/reward situations and trade-offs, where your characters are making due with what they are able to get their hands on and concoct. Your own cunning is supposed to determine how useful you can make something, and your wits for how well you can deal with the situations presented. This may not mean much for seasoned players who have forgotten this... after all we can't simply experience everything for the first time again here, this isn't one of those types of games. But you cannot simply forget that some things are meant to be luxuries and conveniences, not straight-up upgrades. Just accept that game logic DOES have to play a part somewhere.

[Lumina]

1 hour ago, Quyzbuk said:

But you cannot simply forget that some things are meant to be luxuries and conveniences, not straight-up upgrades. Just accept that game logic DOES have to play a part somewhere.

It doesn't mean that some item can't be improved in future update. After all, steel wool finally got an use, some items like compass and moon rocks have more use, and so on.

It's not that all should change and be useful in all the cases. Some items are useful in early game, mid game, late game. Some are easy to make and not really good, others hard to make and more useful, some require planning and still are useful in very specific cases.

So not all the items should follow the same rules. Still, some items have barely no use, and there is nothing wrong to tell it. Some are useful in cases too specifics and deserve more common use.

 

Of course, players should remember that there are many playstyles and one item useless for one could be a must have for another. But if a lot of players are telling "this is useless in my game", maybe the item deserve attention ?

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

2 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Says you.

You seriously have a really bad tendency to just try and tell me "**** you" in creative ways, don't you? Can you stop?

Should I also mention that quite a few people here actually evaluated what I said before, and even though poorly written could see my point on quite a few things I listed?

 

2 hours ago, Mikeadatrix said:

[ImDaMisterL]

Remember everyone, whenever personal insults are being used in arguements the discussion is lost.

Let's refrain from those and keep this thread clean and friendly, alright?

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

1 hour ago, Quyzbuk said:

Instead of trying to have Klei make the characters able to MacGyver everything into something stupidly useful, and make item tiers as black and white as an MMO, let's try to remember this is a WILDERNESS SURVIVAL game. This is a genre where there is supposed to be risk/reward situations and trade-offs, where your characters are making due with what they are able to get their hands on and concoct. Your own cunning is supposed to determine how useful you can make something, and your wits for how well you can deal with the situations presented. This may not mean much for seasoned players who have forgotten this... after all we can't simply experience everything for the first time again here, this isn't one of those types of games. But you cannot simply forget that some things are meant to be luxuries and conveniences, not straight-up upgrades. Just accept that game logic DOES have to play a part somewhere.

My point isn't to make things just tier based. Whilst tier is actually already kind a part of this game (e.g. Science Machine => Alchemy Engine), I'm focusing more on making things exactly what you're describing; making them a way of playing the game. Lets say darts and Weather pain are buffed. You probably won't be able to handle using both at the same time, whilst meleeing or something, so it's your choice, really. They're weapons more or less balanced in their craftability and usefulness have a different way of playing the game, but they're not something you'd just craft just to have. So, I've no idea how what I've talked about being pretty useless in general (probably most of it, or at least half of it) does not relate to this in any shape or form.

 

[Faintly Macabre]

28 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

I'm focusing more on making things exactly what you're describing; making them a way of playing the game.

What you're ignoring is all the people telling you they already are.

36 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

You seriously have a really bad tendency to just try and tell me "**** you" in creative ways, don't you? Can you stop?

Man, I have better things to do than aggravate random people on forums, and to be honest? Even if I didn't, your buttons are a little too easy to push for my tastes. Even in my hay-day as a belligerent forum troll I'd have looked for more sporting game. All I'm actually trying to do is get you to adjust your attitude -- which, I should point out, is somewhat disliked even by some of the people who do see some of your points or insist you have a right to your opinion. Also, want to know a little secret? Come here. Come on. Real close.

I agree with some of your assessments too.

Not a ton of them, but some. A few. But the attitude sucks. Your cleanup of the original post made it a lot easier to swallow, but as you continue to post you're still dismissing other people's opinions out of hand. You keep saying that you understand these are just your opinions and others may have their own, but you're consistently failing to act like it. Maybe if you started walking the walk you'd find more people more willing to talk about the things they do agree with rather than arguing with you about all the stuff they don't.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

19 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

What you're ignoring is all the people telling you they already are.

Man, I have better things to do than aggravate random people on forums, and to be honest? Even if I didn't, your buttons are a little too easy to push for my tastes. Even in my hay-day as a belligerent forum troll I'd have looked for more sporting game. All I'm actually trying to do is get you to adjust your attitude -- which, I should point out, is somewhat disliked even by some of the people who do see some of your points or insist you have a right to your opinion. Also, want to know a little secret? Come here. Come on. Real close.

I agree with some of your assessments too.

Not a ton of them, but some. A few. But the attitude sucks. Your cleanup of the original post made it a lot easier to swallow, but as you continue to post you're still dismissing other people's opinions out of hand. You keep saying that you understand these are just your opinions and others may have their own, but you're consistently failing to act like it. Maybe if you started walking the walk you'd find more people more willing to talk about the things they do agree with rather than arguing with you about all the stuff they don't.

Okay then, if you think you're such a smartass, tell me, detail by detail; what am I doing wrong and what should I do instead?

Also, people seemed to have just gotten offended just because I more or less said "Rain hat is useless" and "Red caps are useless". And what is wrong with that? So, I say something that by and large many disagree with. Am I supposed to be booed at and smashed in the ground, just because I'm a pessimist and just because people want to throw at me my past actions?

What? There is no point in discussing what people mostly agree with, by and large. If everybody agrees, there is no discussion. Things that people DON'T agree on is the things that actually spring up a discussion in the first place, by and large, so what the hell are you talking about?

[Hezel]

I think this thread is accomplishing nothing and Xirmix should not try to evade his ban by making other accounts.