The concern about new content in multiplayer being segregated from singleplayer

[oCrapaCreeper]

 

EDIT: New response from Nome:

On 4/24/2016 at 8:18 AM, nome said:

The update is that we all read threads like this with great attention. Please keep it up (but obviously keep it constructive) and we'll be reading and making plans accordingly (as best we can with the resources that we have). Probably don't expect any early promises that might not come true for a year though *cough* TtA *cough*  

A long time ago, when DST was first announced, a concerned forum member asked about potential new content added to multiplayer that could possibly be locked away in DST that single player can't access:

Quote

 

Jumping off of this post: Please, please don't make multi-player exclusive content that can't be accessed by single-players or have some single-player version offered.

I was very disappointed to see the email sporting the puzzle picture was just to announce multi-player.  One of the reasons I bought and enjoyed this game was that it was so well done as a single-player experience.  It was nice having the confidence that whatever was added would always be focused on that.  I've never cared much for multi-player, so I generally avoid games that have exclusive content for that mode.  There's nothing more annoying than wanting to use or do something, but not have the option to go solo.  I'd really hate to miss out on new craftables, recipes, biomes, etc. just because I prefer that style of play 

 

 

To which Corey then replied:

Quote

"The plan is that things that can be cross modes, will totally be added and tuned for both modes when logically and technically possible. We have zero plans or desire to segregate content that would be awesome to play in both single player and multiplayer. "

 

"We have zero plans or desire to segregate content that would be awesome to play in both single player and multiplayer. "

Fast forward to present time, and there is indeed content in DST that does not exist in singleplayer contrary to Corey's quote. It's been a long time since that statement and the plans could have changed, but as it stands there currently is some awesome stuff to play in both singleplayer and multiplayer, and I believe now that the game is out of early access, this issue is now relevant.

"Awesome to play in both single player and multiplayer" would be defined as content that makes sense for both games. You wouldn't add the Ewecus or the raid version of the Dragonfly to singleplayer for instance as they were designed to be fought with multiple players, so stuff like that isn't applicable to single player without changing things. I've made a short list of stuff that does have potential to work in both games.

Beefalo Riding - It's a system that makes Beefalo more interesting. That seems awesome enough to be in singleplayer, yes?

Resource variants - They make surviving in long term worlds interesting by changing how resources are acquired through the server lifetime. That would also be interesting in singleplayer for day 100+ worlds, I think. Make them world options of course.

Skins - Although created to give players a sense of uniqueness, I don't see any harm in letting you dress up your singleplayer characters, or having cool fire pits and torches. Of course, you should have have to unlock them in DST first before they can be used in singleplayer, that would still persuade people to play DST or buy the skins off the steam market.

Character Changes - Preferably, only add the unique stuff that was added to characters in DST, don't add the nerfs designed for multiplayer. This would include stuff like Bernie, letting willow cook food with her lighter, or Maxwell's new shadow puppets. Again, don't nerf them, only add the new stuff. Balance in single player isn't as much of concern as it is for multiplayer, therefore Willow should still have her fire immunity, Maxwell should still have his huge dapper bonus and starting items, etc.

General polish - This is the most important one. There is so much polish in DST that was never added to the original game.

• Many graphical changes. For example, character wearables and hand-held items like tools actually match the resolution of the characters and aren't blurry like in singleplayer.
• New sounds, such as opening an icebox or placing a structure.
• The crafting menu is bigger and isn't as much of claustrophobic mess, and also doesn't stutter the game when you scroll down.
• Walls have 8 sides instead of 4 (though that was ported over in Shipwrecked),
• And much more. None of those improvements made it to the original game, which is unfortunate because none of them relate to a multiplayer environment and could only be benefit the original game for the sake of polish.

 

I understand this would require additional programming time to make the code for everything work in the original game, for that reason I understand if some of these changes are never ported. But things like general polish should definitely be added to singleplayer in an update. I also understand they want to make DST a bit different, but I think they really should save that for Through the Ages. 

One issue is the lore, since DST canonically takes place after DS it could be assumed some of this stuff couldn't exist in DS. That I don't know how to deal with, perhaps that can be emphasized in Through the Ages. But from a gameplay perspective, I think things should be brought over.

I only bring this issue up again because it was addressed way in the past, and now it's up in the air again. If nothing else, can we please have a new official response regarding this issue? It's been nearly 3 years.

[leeclow]

I totally agree with you @oCrapaCreeper it's saddening to see that don't starve together have some content that is unavailable in single player, somehow, it feels i'm playing an outdated game seeing all that content not in single player, so i take the time to write here to let you know that you are not alone on that feeling, and for Klei to remember that don't starve started as single player game. Honor that and bring us those content here, specially fix the crafting UI that stutters like mad. Thanks for taking the time for reading this, have a good one.

And I have Dont Starve all DLC's including DS: Together and i still prefer playing alone some folks simply do.

[Mudley]

While I agree on most of those things being ported to the singleplayer, skins would be completely unnecessary.

They were implemented so players who choose the same character could still look different, and that would not be a problem in the singleplayer instance.

[MoloMan]

Why not play DST and make a singleplayer server? I get that you can't play SW but everything else is almost identical. And don't tell me it's because the enemies are harder! Because that's why I don't play DS anymore.

[TeoSS69]

56 minutes ago, MoloMan said:

Why not play DST and make a singleplayer server?

Sure. Let me start DST- oh right. I don't have it because I don't care for multiplayer.

 

 

6 hours ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

Character Changes

I'd prefer a toggle setting for that. I don't like any of the character changes in DST.

I'd like to see more of the polish that DST got, moved over to DS. We started to see some of it in Shipwrecked so that's a good start. Moreover that should be retroactive to RoG too (torches setting fire on attack for instance) so we don't have such a fragmentation of mechanics among DLCs.
 

[oCrapaCreeper]

1 hour ago, MoloMan said:

Why not play DST and make a singleplayer server? I get that you can't play SW but everything else is almost identical. And don't tell me it's because the enemies are harder! Because that's why I don't play DS anymore.

You can't pause, there's' no Shipwrecked, there's latency issues, monsters have doubled health, and there a few changes I don't like that wouldn't fit well for treating it like single player. Those were deal breakers for me.

And the fact is, I shouldn't need to buy and launch a separate version of the game for this content that wasn't added, and I don't intend on using the multiplayer aspect often. That's why people were against Shipwrecked being a standalone game.

[t0panka]

46 minutes ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

You can't pause, there's' no Shipwrecked, there's latency issues, monsters have doubled health, and there a few changes I don't like that wouldn't fit well for treating it like single player. Those were deal breakers for me.

And the fact is, I shouldn't need to buy and launch a separate version of the game for this content that wasn't added, and I don't intend on using the multiplayer aspect often. That's why people were against Shipwrecked being a standalone game.

pause = disconnect = big deal

shiprwrecked will be eventually (more to this later)

there is no latency when you playing local

double hp = i dont even know which monsters have this because its easy to kill anything

few changes you dont like i guess:

varg, ewecus = just little bit more challenge to kill them

dragonfly = you can farm her drops and i think you can kill her alone too

guardian = no problem killing it alone

skins = i want to wear skins in singleplayer too and at least this would change "value" of skins to more equal

 

About SW? So singleplayer has whole new DLC but that is not enough so you need those 5-6 new features from DST too? Lets give developers some time and let them focus on TTA which is DLC for DST. Singleplayer just get whole DLC and you are already bored with it? We are waiting for new features for DST forever dude.

So don't worry Klei just need time to do stuff ... DST is out for 5 minutes and beefalo riding and resource variants are part of not even released DLC! Also resource variants is in testing phase IMO and there will be more into it

[1v0]

I don't want to sound rude but let them finish their work on DST (TtA and hopefully more) then talk about single player ... From what I remember their team is not too big so porting stuff from DST to DS will mean we have to wait more for new content in DST ... Which barely started getting new content , because until now they ported stuff from DS to DST ... Im sure some content from DST will eventually get in single player but not now ...

[TeoSS69]

2 hours ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

And the fact is, I shouldn't need to buy and launch a separate version of the game for this content that wasn't added, and I don't intend on using the multiplayer aspect often.

People seem to be overlooking this.

They have different people working on different things, neither party has to wait.

[oCrapaCreeper]

3 hours ago, 1v0 said:

I don't want to sound rude but let them finish their work on DST (TtA and hopefully more) then talk about single player ... From what I remember their team is not too big so porting stuff from DST to DS will mean we have to wait more for new content in DST ... Which barely started getting new content , because until now they ported stuff from DS to DST ... Im sure some content from DST will eventually get in single player but not now ...

I don't necessarily care about when they do it because of course they are busy, but the last time any statement was made about this issue was nearly 3 years ago when the game was announced. 

It's currently unknown whether or not Corey's statement of them having no desire to separate content is still true today, because back then they weren't even 100% sure that DST would have new content.

[Rily]

 

11 hours ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

General polish - This is the most important one. There is so much polish in DST that was never added to the original game.

• Many graphical changes. For example, character wearables and hand-held items like tools actually match the resolution of the characters and aren't blurry like in singleplayer.
• The crafting menu is bigger and isn't as much of claustrophobic mess, and also doesn't stutter the game when you scroll down.
• Walls have 8 sides instead of 4 (though that was ported over in Shipwrecked),
• And much more. None of those improvements made it to the original game, which is unfortunate because none of them relate to a multiplayer environment and could only be benefit the original game for the sake of polish.

I can't be more in agree, maybe the skins are irrelevant but the other changes are awesome, thats why I don't play the original Don't starve anymore, Together is more polish in any way, I prefer how the fire spreads and how the caves are simplified, as you said a lot of those changes could be made in regular DS and  things like the beefalo riding and the new resources variants feels like a Through the ages feature, I like the idea of making "exclusive" content for DST but that content should be for playing in multiplayer, DST don't have enough cooperative features as I thought, thats why you can play alone without problems, there are not enough motivations for multiplayer. 
The through the ages promise of content for old worlds fits perfectly for single player just like the beefalo riding and resource variants, and the single player needs those little tweaks that together have with or without new content

[BlindGunner]

7 hours ago, MoloMan said:

Why not play DST and make a singleplayer server? I get that you can't play SW but everything else is almost identical. And don't tell me it's because the enemies are harder! Because that's why I don't play DS anymore.

Far from identical, most notably the caves and character abilities.

4 hours ago, t0panka said:

pause = disconnect = big deal

Not quite. The server takes time to open, and during that time your character is there and vulnerable as you can't move. Yes, this can mostly be avoided by quitting while not in combat, but its a problem. Also, 5 second pauses are nice if for nothing else than looking at the map.

 

4 hours ago, 1v0 said:

I don't want to sound rude but let them finish their work on DST (TtA and hopefully more) then talk about single player ...

Let's have them "finish" shipwrecked first then. DST has been in a better state than shipwrecked for awhile now (where there is at least an "endgame" and some level of progression..)

52 minutes ago, Rily said:

I prefer how the fire spreads and how the caves are simplified

The way fire spreads i believe was a protection against griefing, no? I forget the reason, anyhow, it made more sense in single-player. In DST it spreads to slowly, forest fires shouldnt take as long as they do. In together there is only one cave/ruins which is very limiting. The caves are also ~10x easier in together which is annoying.

[Rily]

2 minutes ago, BlindGunner said:

The way fire spreads i believe was a protection against griefing, no? I forget the reason, anyhow, it made more sense in single-player. In DST it spreads to slowly, forest fires shouldnt take as long as they do. In together there is only one cave/ruins which is very limiting. The caves are also ~10x easier in together which is annoying.

I think so, but the fact is that you can prevent the fire starts, not always but you can try, that's great, for the caves I prefer the way they are mixed with the ruins, but as you said they are a lot easier, I was afraid of caves in regular DS but in together... meh, let's go I guess

[Quoth143]

There's nothing stopping people from modding the new content for single player. 

[oCrapaCreeper]

7 minutes ago, Quoth143 said:

There's nothing stopping people from modding the new content for single player. 

I know, I made a mod myself that adds the higher quality artwork for character items.

But we shouldn't need mods to have content that wasn't made available for single player. I'm not even sure if ripping stuff from DST into singleplayer would be allowed.

[FTR]

This is kinda off-topic but after playing dst I wouldn't be able to play basic game.. it's just so much better experience, even playing alone (more difficult, more stuff etc.).

[oCrapaCreeper]

50 minutes ago, FTR said:

This is kinda off-topic but after playing dst I wouldn't be able to play basic game.. it's just so much better experience, even playing alone (more difficult, more stuff etc.).

That's generally why I think some of the new stuff should be ported over. If I'm playing alone then the only reason I'm playing DST is because the singleplayer games lacks new content or polish. 

I don't think they'd want someone playing DST because they feel like the game was better made.

[GuyNamedChris]

I kinda like the separation of features. Makes each game feel a bit different V( '-' )V

[oCrapaCreeper]

7 minutes ago, Chris1488 said:

I kinda like the separation of features. Makes each game feel a bit different V( '-' )V

Different but not for the right reasons. I shouldn't want to play DST because it's more polished than singleplayer or because of Beefalo Riding, I should want to play it for multiplayer.

I feel new content that can't be in singleplayer can be added in Through the Ages.

14 hours ago, Mudley said:

While I agree on most of those things being ported to the singleplayer, skins would be completely unnecessary.

They were implemented so players who choose the same character could still look different, and that would not be a problem in the singleplayer instance.

I only bring up skins because they're completely cosmetic and would not harm the singleplayer game.

Something like backwards backwards compatibility between the two games with skins could be ideal. Get the skin via item drop in DST, then you can wear it in both games.

If anything it would give people motivation to buy DST.

[t0panka]

6 hours ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

That's generally why I think some of the new stuff should be ported over. If I'm playing alone then the only reason I'm playing DST is because the singleplayer games lacks new content or polish. 

I don't think they'd want someone playing DST because they feel like the game was better made.

OK lets sum this up:

DS = has extra Shipwrecked DLC, 2 caves, 2 ruins

DST = has Ewecus, Beefalo riding and different berries/twigs/grass/rocks (2 new features of upcoming DLC FOR DST which is nowhere to be finished)

How does singleplayer lack new content or polish? O.o

 

Can we (who play and care about DST too) get TTA finished first please? I am sure that after this DLC Klei will port some stuff to singleplayer dont worry plz!

[oCrapaCreeper]

7 minutes ago, t0panka said:

OK lets sum this up:

DS = has extra Shipwrecked DLC, 2 caves, 2 ruins

DST = has Ewecus, Beefalo riding and different berries/twigs/grass/rocks (2 new features of upcoming DLC FOR DST which is nowhere to be finished)

How does singleplayer lack new content or polish? O.o

 

Can we (who play and care about DST too) get TTA finished first please? I am sure that after this DLC Klei will port some stuff to singleplayer dont worry plz!

Until there's another official response, I'm going to continue to bring this issue up, because it is indeed an issue given the last response made. I don't care when it happens, they can finish TTA first, all I care is that they clarify what they meant by  "We have zero plans or desire to segregate content that would be awesome to play in both single player and multiplayer. ", or if that statement was just thrown out altogether.

[Michi01]

5 minutes ago, t0panka said:

OK lets sum this up:

DS = has extra Shipwrecked DLC, 2 caves, 2 ruins

DST = has Ewecus, Beefalo riding and different berries/twigs/grass/rocks (2 new features of upcoming DLC FOR DST which is nowhere to be finished)

How does singleplayer lack new content or polish? O.o

 

Can we (who play and care about DST too) get TTA finished first please? I am sure that after this DLC Klei will port some stuff to singleplayer dont worry plz!

This is not about getting all the DST stuff ported to singleplayer right now, but maybe someone from Klei telling us if they're planning to port it when TtA is done. Also having more than one cave isn't a feature and not everyone likes shipwrecked. And there's A LOT more new content, improvements and bugfixes in DST than the stuff you mentioned .

[AnonymousKoala]

My issue is that having DST get some exclusive content is great. It costs this much, so it shouldn't just be Don't Starve with multiplayer(IMO at least, do remember the currency difference).

But then there's all the arguments in here which are also justified. Through the Ages has potential to give so much lategame content which DS always lacked(In RoG you had at least 3 years to survive with new-ish stuff to discover thanks to the giants), Beefalo Riding, and all the rest of the content that was mentioned.

I have no clue which side to take thanks to this. DST should have its exclusive content of course, but things like Through the Ages won't be harmful in Singleplayer. 

[t0panka]

@oCrapaCreeper @Michi01 guys i want some of those features ported to DS too! But lets be real there are better/more important things to do for Klei than porting few tiny features to game that just got whole new DLC

That means firstly finish TTA, PVP update, console versions of both games, LORE, optimising network stuff, walking cane skin (:P) etc. etc. After this we will definitely get some features to single player. I saw this mentioned from developers more than once. 

DS got their big attention with whole DLC so now its finally DST time to shine. There will be always something to do like people already spamming forums with "Shipwrecked in DST WHEN?" questions or "DST for my tamagotchi WHEN?" 

I know porting some of those features could be really easy but when Klei will start this they need to actually finish because there will be another XYZ topic about "why did you put feature X to DS from DST but not feature Y?"

Another thing is look how RIDICULOUS is Klei pricing their stuff  So i think keeping DST 100% and fresh with content is important to ensure Klei will have enough funds and time to deal with these "little things" because i think DST is their main resource of income right now. They are already doing amazing job with all their games and YES i am inpatient too but Klei never disappoint us and we just need to give them some time to do their amazing work .)

[Moon64]

I like DS and DST content/mechanics being separate. If the games were the exact same, why even have two different games? 

I don't think Beefalo riding or resource variants would enrich single play Don't Starve at all. Heck, I still don't see much of a point in beefalo riding in multiplayer considering walking with a cane is just as fast and walking with a cane on a road/cobble is even faster. Ewecus is meant to be fought with multiple people. Skins, meh. Ewecus is supposed to be fought with multiple people, same with the dragonfly. I prefer the fire spread in the original game. 

I prefer a lot of the mechanics in single player compared to DST. I also prefer playing alone and I definitely don't like to play DST by myself.