An Update on Don’t Starve

[tehMugwump]

(taking my moderator hat off....)

Walk on over to the Cube World forums if you want to see how NOT to run an indie game.  First thing you'll notice is their forums have been locked for a month and the last 'tweet' from the (one) dev was 23 days ago. No timeline for development, no communication. Reddit is turning into a lynching mob over Cube World.

 

I think the money spent for DS has already paid for itself a few times over.  The devs can't working for nothing just to keep giving out updates.  You make your best guess at the beginning how things will be done and then you change as needed when reality sets in.

 

Don't know about you, but I've haven't gotten so much use out of a game since Minecraft.  And that's saying a lot.

[Amkar]

(taking my moderator hat off....)

Walk on over to the Cube World forums if you want to see how NOT to run an indie game.  First thing you'll notice is their forums have been locked for a month and the last 'tweet' from the (one) dev was 23 days ago. No timeline for development, no communication. Reddit is turning into a lynching mob over Cube World.

 

I think the money spent for DS has already paid for itself a few times over.  The devs can't working for nothing just to keep giving out updates.  You make your best guess at the beginning how things will be done and then you change as needed when reality sets in.

 

Don't know about you, but I've haven't gotten so much use out of a game since Minecraft.  And that's saying a lot.

 

This is why I've loved seeing this game grow and develop so much. The whole time, Klei has been communicating ideas to players, collecting feedback, asking for ideas. You can see how much of an impact the community has on the game from the Strange New Powers update where pretty much every character had some kind of change based on player feedback.

 

Anyway, I can see why people would object to DLC in a lot of cases, but as long as it's good enough quality content and it's not something being held back from the release or something, I'm totally fine with it.

[Teratoma]

People that are against DLC on a game that had loads of free updates are pathetic.

 

In most games you either get more content from DLC or you don't get ****.

Devs have to eat too, what's so bad if you'll have to pay 5 euros for shitload of content for a game you love to play?

 

I hope Klei will make great DLCs and lots of them. I'd buy all of them as long as they have good amount of content and not "2 new enemies and 1 new item for 1,99€".

Hell, they can be 10€ if it's gonna make the game almost twice as big.

 

 

Now something totally unrelated: What I would do if I was Klei

1. After all the free updates, when Don't Starve doesn't sell anymore, put it on Humble Indie Bundle

2. Announce DLC week or two later

3. Add early access, people who buy it will continue having content updates until the DLC gets released

Because of HiB, you'll get more money from both base game and DLC(because more players) and people, who aren't greedy, will get their updates.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Teratoma

[willoc]

I'm glad they went the DLC route.  Don't Starve, after the last couple of updates, is now worth more than the initial price in my eyes.  Especially since you had multiple times where you could get it at a hefty discount.  I will buy all DLCs and I don't have any qualms with releasing updates on a less frequent basis.  The 3 week per update they were doing was pretty aggressive in my eyes and they definately need more time as the game becomes complex.

[zomnat]

my god.......... the elusive bigfoot!

[Luggy120]

D-D-DLC YEAH!        

[jbeetle]

DLCs for single player games make the most sense.

[ElvisVonMozart]

This is a great move. As a 500+ hours player, I'm very happy with this, although I'll miss the 3-week updates, because I'm a consumer ***** I'm very, very happy even learning that there WILL BE a DLC and that there will be more focus on (I believe needed) polishing. There are two major things that I would like to see and that I feel would make Don't Starve even more awesome. The first thing is http://forums.kleientertainment.com/index.php?/topic/25530-an-apocalypse-event-great-plague-meteor-rain-great-impact-ice-age-evolution/ (a PURPOSE to go to caves) and second http://forums.kleientertainment.com/index.php?/topic/24457-maxwell-mode-level-editor/?hl=%2Blevel+%2Bedit#entry278807 that would greatly benefit the modders and community to create some of the best experiences in the world od Don't Starve ever. After you end the 3-week routine, think about it, think about hard. Creating maps is the ultimate way to ensure longterm liveness of modding (& players) community. I'm looking forward to every single bit of new content that comes along the way and wish you guys the best response from players, best money for running your entertainment creating band & best time making an incredible game (it's 2013 and this is fuckin' rare) THE GAME of the future. Because I think Don't Starve stands out as a prime example of what a (very) good game is about.

[Captiva]

I don't have any problem with DLC... but the reason they gave for dropping the Lava Caves and Heat Wave was because they wanted to polish the game up before releasing new content.... Which I am fine with. But then they make the leap (without any real explanation) to saying the content is completely scrapped and they are just going to make a DLC with challenges instead.

 

Why can't we get the content they promised? They never really gave a reason, and assuming they ran out of money is just that, an assumption, as I never seen any mention of money being the issue.

 

And if that is the case, then I am sure the majority of people who play this game would gladly pay to get the content they promised and they could throw in the challenges and stuff as well and make it worth it to everyone. I would fork out 10 bucks, maybe even more for that.

[KevMaaan]

I dont see why people oppose DLC so strongly, as it is atm, as soon as you survive your first winter the game gets pretty easy fairly quickly with the use ioof a mega ase and a panic room. Theres absoltuely no challenge to the game after that point, and you generally only die from being silly after a certain point.

 

I've been watching a few people play who are at day 1,000+ and EVERYTHING they need is in their base. They literally dont leave so the game just turns to a glorified farmville. If a new DLC will open more challenge and danger then personally, im all for it.

[sirmentlegen]

I have a feeling this is going to go down the Train Sim 2013 dlc route.

[Amkar]

I dont see why people oppose DLC so strongly, as it is atm, as soon as you survive your first winter the game gets pretty easy fairly quickly with the use ioof a mega ase and a panic room. Theres absoltuely no challenge to the game after that point, and you generally only die from being silly after a certain point.

 

I've been watching a few people play who are at day 1,000+ and EVERYTHING they need is in their base. They literally dont leave so the game just turns to a glorified farmville. If a new DLC will open more challenge and danger then personally, im all for it.

 

They probably respond negatively to it due to how so many companies abuse it. Day 1 DLC, which could have been included in the release, stuff that's evidently been held back to make more money, DLC which adds little to the game, etc.

[KevMaaan]

They probably respond negatively to it due to how so many companies abuse it. Day 1 DLC, which could have been included in the release, stuff that's evidently been held back to make more money, DLC which adds little to the game, etc.

 

 

Ah, so like stupid "map pack" dlcs -___-

 

I think with how much time and effort klei have put into DS already then the DLC's they release will be of the highest quality. If not, you can always opt out of buying any DLC of course

 

The frequency of their updates does show great care for their customers though.

[Konakuer]

From their official site's FAQ:

 

The game is currently in development, but you can get access to the Early-Access Beta when you pre-order the game and start playing right now! We do regular updates (currently every 2 weeks) to add new content and fix minor issues. We're encouraging players to send us their feedback, suggestions and report any bugs they uncover in our forums. Don't be shy! Spiders bite, we don't.

 

It would be good to update it for new players and possible buyers... Actually it should have been updated a while ago lol

Edited August 17, 2013 by Konakuer

[Kevin]

I'm glad that this announcement was generally well-received. I'll admit that I was a bit anxious when we were drafting it

 

Just to clarify: there's still going to be some content in the remaining patches - just not as much as some of the earlier patches. For example, Maxwell didn't get his rework in the SNP update. The first level of caves still needs some love. I would also consider controller support to be content - it's a lot of work on our end, at any rate.

 

But yes, the amount of absolutely NEW stuff per update has to come down over time. We need to shift over to focusing upon making everything work well together. We can't go full speed ahead and then stop suddenly- things need time to settle, and we need to leave the game in a really good state. It would be really crappy if the last scheduled update added a new enemy that was unbalanced, and then we didn't have time to fix it. That would be irresponsible. It would also be a huge disservice to the mod community, which will be providing tonnes of new and crazy content for a very long time if we support it correctly now.

 

We cut some of the specifics on the roadmap because there wasn't enough time left in the scheduled support window, and we don't want to push out a lot of broken stuff right at the end. It's important to remember that items on roadmaps aren't promises - they're targets. Game development is an inexact science, and stuff gets cut / rearranged / added all the time as production continues. We are very open with our development method, and share things as early as we are reasonably confident about them. But even then - sometimes we are wrong. I'd rather share and be wrong sometimes than talk only in super-guarded marketing-speak all of the time.

 

As for the DLC - it's going to be fun. Since it an optional, modular pack-in, we *can* make crazy changes, and add new systems. It's been a while since we've been able to be so reckless, and I'm looking forward to seeing what the team comes up with when they don't have to worry as much about upsetting the existing balance.

[MycoLogical]

Can we have a preview; a small sneak pea

 

I'm glad that this announcement was generally well-received. I'll admit that I was a bit anxious when we were drafting it

 

Just to clarify: there's still going to be some content in the remaining patches - just not as much as some of the earlier patches. For example, Maxwell didn't get his rework in the SNP update. The first level of caves still needs some love. I would also consider controller support to be content - it's a lot of work on our end, at any rate.

 

But yes, the amount of absolutely NEW stuff per update has to come down over time. We need to shift over to focusing upon making everything work well together. We can't go full speed ahead and then stop suddenly- things need time to settle, and we need to leave the game in a really good state. It would be really crappy if the last scheduled update added a new enemy that was unbalanced, and then we didn't have time to fix it. That would be irresponsible. It would also be a huge disservice to the mod community, which will be providing tonnes of new and crazy content for a very long time if we support it correctly now.

 

We cut some of the specifics on the roadmap because there wasn't enough time left in the scheduled support window, and we don't want to push out a lot of broken stuff right at the end. It's important to remember that items on roadmaps aren't promises - they're targets. Game development is an inexact science, and stuff gets cut / rearranged / added all the time as production continues. We are very open with our development method, and share things as early as we are reasonably confident about them. But even then - sometimes we are wrong. I'd rather share and be wrong sometimes than talk only in super-guarded marketing-speak all of the time.

 

As for the DLC - it's going to be fun. Since it an optional, modular pack-in, we *can* make crazy changes, and add new systems. It's been a while since we've been able to be so reckless, and I'm looking forward to seeing what the team comes up with when they don't have to worry as much about upsetting the existing balance.

Can we have a tiny, little itty-bitty sneak peak of some of the new items?

 

Will things that have one use or no usage finally get one?

[Konakuer]

Well I'm glad to know there is still going to be new content, even if it's not really big stuff.

[Captiva]

I love the game and am glad you guys are open about what you are planning.

 

Still am a little hurt though, and hope that you guys haven't 100% closed the door on some of the content you were hoping to put in such as the heat wave.

 

Either way... Thanks for taking time to further clarify Kevin.

[tehMugwump]

I'm glad that this announcement was generally well-received. I'll admit that I was a bit anxious when we were drafting it

 

Just to clarify: there's still going to be some content in the remaining patches - just not as much as some of the earlier patches. For example, Maxwell didn't get his rework in the SNP update. The first level of caves still needs some love. I would also consider controller support to be content - it's a lot of work on our end, at any rate.

 

But yes, the amount of absolutely NEW stuff per update has to come down over time. We need to shift over to focusing upon making everything work well together. We can't go full speed ahead and then stop suddenly- things need time to settle, and we need to leave the game in a really good state. It would be really crappy if the last scheduled update added a new enemy that was unbalanced, and then we didn't have time to fix it. That would be irresponsible. It would also be a huge disservice to the mod community, which will be providing tonnes of new and crazy content for a very long time if we support it correctly now.

 

We cut some of the specifics on the roadmap because there wasn't enough time left in the scheduled support window, and we don't want to push out a lot of broken stuff right at the end. It's important to remember that items on roadmaps aren't promises - they're targets. Game development is an inexact science, and stuff gets cut / rearranged / added all the time as production continues. We are very open with our development method, and share things as early as we are reasonably confident about them. But even then - sometimes we are wrong. I'd rather share and be wrong sometimes than talk only in super-guarded marketing-speak all of the time.

 

As for the DLC - it's going to be fun. Since it an optional, modular pack-in, we *can* make crazy changes, and add new systems. It's been a while since we've been able to be so reckless, and I'm looking forward to seeing what the team comes up with when they don't have to worry as much about upsetting the existing balance.

Thanks for being up front about all this.  I can't blame you guys at all and I've said so.  I, as the torch holder to Test Tools, hope to do the same thing and leave a well written, functioning mod for players to use for the life of the game.  (with the latest game UI changes, it doesn't look too promising though).

 

Edit: Changed 'to' to 'too'.

Edited August 17, 2013 by tehMugwump

[Freeze]

I've not played much Don't Starve recently or been on the forums as much, but I'm looking forward to seeing the game polished up. It's really amazing how far the game has come from the early beta and it was a real ride playing it and getting updates every two/three weeks.

 

Also, who's betting the DLC is the story of Maxwell? That's what I'd guess anyway!

Edited August 17, 2013 by Freeze

[poldur]

I am very happy with the way Klei will do things on don't starve in the future as well.

A nice Idea for the DLC would be more possible "Maps" for the Adventure Mode.

[Avarwen]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 

Just do updates less often...please...

Not a bad idea I thought they might do large updates every 3-6 months or so I'd be happy with that I'd even be willing to pay for said updates if it were to keep DS going for at least a couple of years.

 

I'm gald to see that the game will still be getting support and I hope the DLC is super fun and makes surviviing even harder.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Avarwen

[Blucher]

How many good ideas do you have!?

I agree.  Most of _Q_'s posts (that I've seen) seem to be of the pro-gamer/this-game-is-too-easy-mode variety, but this post of of his has many very good ideas that would actually improve the game and make it more fun.

[The_Cookiebeast]

Hey everyone!As you all know, when we launched Don’t Starve, we dedicated ourselves to having 6 months of constant content updates for the game. Since then, we’ve released content every 3 weeks, and the game has grown considerably -- new characters, new biomes, new creatures, new abilities, new craftables, better mod support... the list goes on.What we’ve also found is that doing constant updates this frequently has its downsides: more needs to be tested, mods break, and quite importantly -- more content isn’t always better. So after some reviewing, we’ve decided to spend the last 4 updates really making what we have into a more cohesive whole.This means instead of adding big new features (Lava or a new season), we’re going to focus on balancing the things we already have (Caves, Ruins, Recipes), and also squashing all the bugs that are always on the bottom of the pile because we need to rush for the next 3 week push. Another huge benefit is that mods won’t constantly break as we’re not shifting the ground beneath them.It’s not as flashy, but we think it makes for a better game, which is always our priority.So what’s to come after the the six months is over? We’re not quite sure yet, but we are excited to figure it out! In terms of updates, the team needs a break from 3 week sprints, that’s for sure. We still have a couple of surprise characters planned. I can’t say more about them right now, because they are supposed to be a surprise.When November rolls around, the majority of the dev team is going to focus on the first Don’t Starve DLC. We haven’t decided what this is going to be yet (not multiplayer!), but I think that we are leaning towards bringing crazy new challenges set in the same world. We want to be able to make big scary changes to the game rules and do strange new things without changing the core, vanilla DS experience.We hope to include the community in the DLC development like we have in the past. We really do believe that the game is better for having an early and constant audience.If you’re curious about the gory details, here is the revised roadmap:

The CavesLevels:We had originally designed the Caves to be a place where Wilson digs deeper and deeper into new areas. However, the result was that each level we created felt anemic, and we quickly understood that it was better to fill out each level rather than create more anemic ones.Thus, we are going to stop at the Ruins, and Instead of adding more levels, we are going to take the next couple of updates to tune what already exists. The sinkhole level has a lot of content in it currently, but it doesn’t quite gel into a coherent gameplay experience yet. We’re going to look at adding some time-based cycles to fix this (the ruins has its own, special cycle that you’ll see soon). Our goal is to do a smaller number of things to a higher degree of polish, rather than spread our efforts too thin.Visibility:The caves as you have been playing them so far have had walls in place of the above-world oceans. These look cool when when you are standing in front of them, but we’ve been trying to solve the visibility problem when you’re in a tight hallway for a couple of updates now with limited success. Most of the visualization tricks that we have come up with for hiding them have been visually confusing, and there have been bad knock-on bugs and performance issues for low-spec machines.Instead, we’ve replaced them with pits, and the occasional pillar. The end result plays the same, and still looks like a cave, but most importantly it plays way better. Graphics have to follow gameplay, afterall.Death Mechanic:We haven’t done this yet, but we will put it in place when we finish up the sinkhole level. I’m pretty sure that death is going to just be death, independent of where it happens. This is the most consistent solution that fits best with our established themes. Death in adventure mode has some magical elements to it, but when you die in a cave you’re really just dying in a hole in the ground. This means that if you die in the cave, you’ll need to have a meat effigy somewhere in the world to respawn at.Mod Support:Modding is something that Bigfooot has been a huge proponent of since the beginning. We believe this is a place where we can explore new mechanics and different playstyles without sacrificing the core concepts of Don’t Starve.Our focus on stability allows modders to build mods without having the ground shift under them every three weeks, which should let them focus their efforts on creating more great content. Given the size and enthusiasm of the mod community, we feel that mods have a huge opportunity to open up great new gamespaces in Don’t Starve.Ipsquiggle has been working on stabilizing the mod API, and it is nearing where we’re happy with it (and we hope you are, too!). Steam workshop support is coming on August 20th, which will increase the audience and ease of use for mods greatly.In addition, before the end of the updates, we want to open up the anim and sound pipelines to modders! There are some semi-large technical hurdles to overcome with these tasks, which are going to eat up a big chunk of dev time.Character RebalanceHey, we did this! Yay! Maxwell should get his makeover before the end of the project. I hope that everyone is enjoying playing as Woodie. I expect a lot of really cool characters to come out of the mod community in the long run as well.Platforms, ControlsKevin is currently knee-deep in getting the controller support properly working. This is key to our upcoming Steam Big Picture support, as well as a requirement for the PS4 launch. The PS4 version is progressing nicely.Merch!The plan to have Wilson and his ilk invade your home is progressing well. I’ve seen some pretty cool things that we’re not quite ready to reveal yet. You’ll be pleasantly surprised. :-)So that’s where we stand with the roadmap. Our tentative update days for the rest of the project are Aug 20, Sep 10, Oct 1, and finally Oct 22. The Aug 20 update has a lot of content in it (for ruins). The subsequent updates will be smaller, and more and more focused upon fixing and tuning things.

Yessss, i have been so confused as to which character to play ever since the Strange Powers update. All the other characters except my favorite Maxwell got reworked, cant wait.

[Doomfan64]

As for the DLC - it's going to be fun. Since it an optional, modular pack-in, we *can* make crazy changes, and add new systems. It's been a while since we've been able to be so reckless, and I'm looking forward to seeing what the team comes up with when they don't have to worry as much about upsetting the existing balance.

Well, I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking this when the DLC was announced instead of "NOOOOOOOO KLEI IS RUINED FOREVER"