Why i think Wanda should be slower when old

[. . .]

that would be a good start to giving more cons to a super op character

[Yuuko]

Nah.  The point of Wanda is to be in old form.  There shouldn't be a reason to go too younger forms once you have her going.  This is definitely the wrong direction.

9 hours ago, _zwb said:

Nerf alarming clock then

In young and middle age forms?  Absolutely.

Wanda is in a pretty good spot right now.  Like Maxwell and some others she has a very complete kit pre-skill tree, so I don't expect her tree to bring much except planar damage sources similar to Woflgang.  There is nothing "wrong" with her that needs fixing or nerfing.

[Sacco]

19 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

Nah.  The point of Wanda is to be in old form.  There shouldn't be a reason to go too younger forms once you have her going.  This is definitely the wrong direction.

no it's not.

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Sacco said:

no it's not.

Yes it is, otherwise there would be a point to being in younger forms.  What you're asking for is to CHANGE Wanda to be this way, but this is not the way Wanda is.  She isn't supposed to *only* be old form for combat, otherwise she'd have non-combat buffs when young / middle.

The way Wanda is designed is to encourage a lower-health life style, changing and in some ways increasing the risk.  This is pretty clearly done by having pretty much no advantages when young, and some combat advantages when middle, with big combat advantages when old.

The only time you'd want to leave old age is if you're going to be spam crafting or doing a lot of work, in which case you might wind a few watches for that stretch - but otherwise its old age all the time.

[Sacco]

6 hours ago, Yuuko said:

Yes it is, otherwise there would be a point to being in younger forms.  What you're asking for is to CHANGE Wanda to be this way, but this is not the way Wanda is.  She isn't supposed to *only* be old form for combat, otherwise she'd have non-combat buffs when young / middle.

The way Wanda is designed is to encourage a lower-health life style, changing and in some ways increasing the risk.  This is pretty clearly done by having pretty much no advantages when young, and some combat advantages when middle, with big combat advantages when old.

The only time you'd want to leave old age is if you're going to be spam crafting or doing a lot of work, in which case you might wind a few watches for that stretch - but otherwise its old age all the time.

old wanda is worse at crafting, working and fighting with non shadow weapons and can't transport heavy objects.

she is clearly meant to stay old for fighting.

and even if what you said is true i don't like it.

i want people to be encouraged to play other forms by nerfing the best form wanda has, the old one, because it is too good.

 

 

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Sacco said:

old wanda is worse at crafting, working and fighting with non shadow weapons and can't transport heavy objects.

she is clearly meant to stay old for fighting.

and even if what you said is true i don't like it.

i want people to be encouraged to play other forms by nerfing the best form wanda has, the old one, because it is too good.

 

 

This is exactly what I'm saying.  You want this, but this is not how she is.

The only reason she is worse at fighting with non-shadow weapons is because she gets the alarming clock so there is no point.

The crafting and working are her downsides, they aren't perks of being young.

The concept of her character isn't to change forms to suit her purpose, its to gain power and cheat death, ironically by flirting with it.  She should only have more reasons to stay old, and be more vulnerable in that state.

[Gi-Go]

1 hour ago, Sacco said:

I want people to be encouraged to play other forms by nerfing the best form wanda has, the old one, because it is too good.

You seem bothered by other players playstyle. It's none of your business honestly. If you don't wanna be old stay young. Problem solved.

[Sacco]

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

This is exactly what I'm saying.  You want this, but this is not how she is.

The only reason she is worse at fighting with non-shadow weapons is because she gets the alarming clock so there is no point.

The crafting and working are her downsides, they aren't perks of being young.

The concept of her character isn't to change forms to suit her purpose, its to gain power and cheat death, ironically by flirting with it.  She should only have more reasons to stay old, and be more vulnerable in that state.

she has backtreck watch, so make her slower to make people use that thing more.

11 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

You seem bothered by other players playstyle. It's none of your business honestly. If you don't wanna be old stay young. Problem solved.

it's not a playstyle, people stay old as wanda because her old form is too good compared to the others.

so it needs some sort of drawbacks

[Gi-Go]

4 minutes ago, Sacco said:

it's not a playstyle, people stay old as wanda because her old form is too good compared to the others.

so it needs some sort of drawbacks

Do you even play Wanda? 

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

Wanda is fine. The general risk of being at low health is more than enough to balance her for most players. Of course, people who can always avoid damage will be able to abuse Wanda's old form, but that's how a skill-based character is supposed to be.

[ShadowDuelist]

If the old form is like 5% or 10% slower then her backtrek watch should be improved to have a much faster react time, much like a dodge in most combat or moba games. Despite that you can get used to its timings, it still makes it kinda poopy.

Also give young Wanda some non-combat perks.
 

[Sacco]

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

Do you even play Wanda? 

yes

[arubaro]

21 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Well duh less hp more damage that's kinda the point. 

We already have mechanic you suggest with Wolfgang who essentially slows down in his best form. 

Then more range less speed fits really well

[Frosty_Mentos]

Considering many other characters I think Wanda is fairly balance for what she is. Her old age making her already be annoying to do any crafting or harvesting tasks as while giving boost to damage greatly making her fairly fine to life on that edge for greater reward when it comes to combat. Her playstyle is to alter between two ages mostly, while other forms acting like her "safe-state" where she is least likely to die immediately.

I like that playstyle because you don't get too much room on errors especially when your clocks are on cooldowns. You can't expect to be always perfect at kiting every hit unless you're just that hardcore perceptive or don't get too distracted.

Not to mention that not THAT many people play her in general. Her kit is very lategame when it comes to transportation, while mid-early with the clock then building better armors, she is ruthless in the beginning, she doesn't take elemental damage too well, not having very good armors will make her very vulnerable... if you get the point.

She has massive cooldowns in general and her clocks take up a LOT of inventory space. While having good armor you can mostly have an easy time with her she is rougher to play than Wolfgang. I'd say she's harder than Maxwell to some degree, cause Maxwell can kinda just bum out a lot despite his frailty and let minions do most work until you get beefalo for soaking up damage. Wanda's more on hand and has to face everything, for best results you need to be on that edge of HP all the time.

I swear there used to be a lot more Wolfgang haters before around here till Wanda arrived.

MANY PEOPLE GAVE CRAP ABOUT WOLFGANG TILL WANDA CAME LMAO

I mean, think about it. Wolf kinda gets it more or less for free without health risk unless heavily swarmed. Wanda can be heavily swamped and can't be allowed to risk to have that done on her. Wolfgang gets straight up double damage on mighty form. Wanda gets slightly less but DPS they are more or less on same boat damage wise and don't start the nerd talk for how one does one or two more damage cause noone cares case and point Wolfgang gets running speed and faster harvesting while Wanda is mostly transport and combat oriented overall. 

Life giving amulets aren't hard to mass produce after ruin raid, just that Wanda can use bones and living logs looks less appealing in my view cause enemies won't fall asleep to that revival and you might die again on the spot.

Backtrek watch is just a lategame option of travel without much costs, but I prefer beefalo or telelocator focus for that cause I couldn't be bothered till enough tusks exists in storage. Sucks if only one tusk in the world which I result in using beefalo anyway for speed. (speed beef is underrated)

Recently Willow got a huge buff via skill tree, and nobody's like "OH DAMN SHE'S TOO DAMN POWERFUL NERF PLEASE KLEI?????" cause she has everything and above to provide herself, protect herself and allies with bernie, fire being most powerful crowd control way against most mobs, damage abilities and mini star on a whim.

Like, c'mon. You're hating on Wanda when she doesn't even have that much going for her while she's more hard crippled than the characters with most recent reworks and skilltrees.

Even less people talk about how Wigfrid is literally just an unbalanced mess and toppled off with now even more skills to make her and allies generally now shred everything and anything in sight.

In conclusion: I seen too many Wanda posts and none of them are either reasonable or good. She needs some buffs or new watches to vary her playstyle a little imo, cause she is a DLC character technically and she DOES need special treatment to be as cool as she can be. Even when she's pretty cool rn she could be always cooler.

[Cruvimaster]

Wanda is becoming trash and you want to make it worse?

Wanda was always inferior to Wolfgang and post-rework Maxwell.

Today there is an abyss between Wanda and Wolfgang.

She received 2 nerfs: planar system + Frostjaw (Wanda/Wortox's teleportation is becoming irrelevant).

It does not deal damage to multiple enemies or in an area. Wolfgang, Wigfrid, Wormwood and Willow have this ability.

She has an extremely risky battle against the possessed versions of the bosses.

She's no good at speedrunning. She has to spend the entire first winter looking for Walrus Tusk if she wants to have teleportation.

Wigfrid is more powerful than Wanda after defeating the Celestial Champion and with zero disadvantages in combat.

Wanda was one of Klei's best works on the system of advantages and disadvantages, but that was before the planar system.

 

Man, Wormwood is getting better than Wanda at combat. You have to be very blind to not want to see Wanda's reality.

And yet I have to read that "Alarming Clock" needs to be nerfed...

[Mysterious box]

On 3/15/2024 at 8:08 AM, Sacco said:

Today i'd like to talk about a change which i think Wanda needs.

She needs to be slower when old, by not that much but still and that's why i think she really needs this change:

1)AGE:

often old people are not as in shape as young people, Wanda has other downsides related to her health and this just makes sense to me.

2)ALWAYS BEING OLD:

i see the old form of Wanda just as a fight form, when you are out of a fight you should stay in her young or middle age form, this change would discourage people from remaining old for most of the game and give a reason to the other wanda's ages.

 

And these are my just my opinions, feel free to share you ideas in the comments! (:

Be careful with that kinda talk Wickerbottom might start catching strays...

Jokes aside considering the sheer powercreep skill trees are introducing I don't think Wanda is close to needing a nerf besides there's definitely a character I'd nerf before Wanda if we ever did start up the nerfing chopping block.

[cybers2001]

You clearly never played an MMO or MOBA if you think the glass cannon should be the slowest character in the game.

20 hours ago, Sacco said:

she has backtreck watch, so make her slower to make people use that thing more.

it's not a playstyle, people stay old as wanda because her old form is too good compared to the others.

so it needs some sort of drawbacks

Old Wanda does have a drawback. You get hit, you DIE.

Backstep watch is not a good consolation at all. It's useful for dodging otherwise impossible-to-dodge things, like projectiles, but in normal melee combat it's hard to use as reliably as simply switching to a cane and backing up a few steps. It definitely does not work against all bosses, like dragonfly, which pushes into you and basically makes your backstep point still in range of her attack, or 2nd phase CC, which will just continue spinning towards you after you backstep, but even in the cases where you can pull it off, it will definitely cut into your DPS, which is already slightly lower than Wolfgang's.

These forums need a policy of forcing people who come up with such outlandish balance suggestions to post videos showing that they can even do the thing they claim should be meta.

18 hours ago, Sacco said:

yes

How often do you die while playing as her? Give an honest per-season average guess.

[comonavi]

55 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Be careful with that kinda talk Wickerbottom might start catching strays...

35 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Old Wanda does have a drawback. You get hit, you DIE.

Exactly, old age just means she's low health. I'll admit I rarely play her but it's a simple risk for reward scenario, is that so bad? Another downside might make it more interesting but you must realize not everyone plays with one finger on the rollback button... and a speed nerf would be the most boring drawback possible.

[chirsg]

6 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Wanda is becoming trash and you want to make it worse?

Wanda was always inferior to Wolfgang and post-rework Maxwell.

Today there is an abyss between Wanda and Wolfgang.

She received 2 nerfs: planar system + Frostjaw (Wanda/Wortox's teleportation is becoming irrelevant).

It does not deal damage to multiple enemies or in an area. Wolfgang, Wigfrid, Wormwood and Willow have this ability.

She has an extremely risky battle against the possessed versions of the bosses.

She's no good at speedrunning. She has to spend the entire first winter looking for Walrus Tusk if she wants to have teleportation.

Wigfrid is more powerful than Wanda after defeating the Celestial Champion and with zero disadvantages in combat.

Wanda was one of Klei's best works on the system of advantages and disadvantages, but that was before the planar system.

 

Man, Wormwood is getting better than Wanda at combat. You have to be very blind to not want to see Wanda's reality.

And yet I have to read that "Alarming Clock" needs to be nerfed...

Wanda can set up a fast travel network. If she falls short in combat compared to combat centric characters, she will still have insurmountable value lol. Wanda with a speed penalty would remain the fastest character in the game. In a single day, she can give pearl a salad, reset the ruins and turn into a monkey and back into a human again, all while geriatric

 

[cybers2001]

18 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Wanda can set up a fast travel network. If she falls short in combat compared to combat centric characters, she will still have insurmountable value lol. Wanda with a speed penalty would remain the fastest character in the game. In a single day, she can give pearl a salad, reset the ruins and turn into a monkey and back into a human again, all while geriatric

 

This doesn’t really have to do with the post, though. The topic is about nerfing old Wanda. Why would anyone play old Wanda when young Wanda can backtrek around the map just as easily.

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, chirsg said:

Wanda can set up a fast travel network. If she falls short in combat compared to combat centric characters, she will still have insurmountable value lol. Wanda with a speed penalty would remain the fastest character in the game. In a single day, she can give pearl a salad, reset the ruins and turn into a monkey and back into a human again, all while geriatric

 

In a single day she can go to pearl's island, reset ruins, go to monkey island, and back to base!  She just needs to farm multiple winters AND have gone to all of these places manually first...  Also by this time planar is unlocked and until she gets a kit she is basically the worst combat character in the game.

Wanda is a combat centric character, without that you wouldn't play her.  It is the most interesting part of her kit.  Remove the entire teleport network and she would be mostly as useful as she is now.  Remove her combat and she would be auto-pass.

[00petar00]

On 3/15/2024 at 1:08 PM, Sacco said:

Today i'd like to talk about a change which i think Wanda needs.

She needs to be slower when old, by not that much but still and that's why i think she really needs this change:

1)AGE:

often old people are not as in shape as young people, Wanda has other downsides related to her health and this just makes sense to me.

2)ALWAYS BEING OLD:

i see the old form of Wanda just as a fight form, when you are out of a fight you should stay in her young or middle age form, this change would discourage people from remaining old for most of the game and give a reason to the other wanda's ages.

I always stay in old age because I don't want to manage age and it isn't fun to do.

Why should Wanda be the only character that gets such a big penalty? Movement speed is like the most important stat a character has.

Most Wanda players don't stay old all the time, I am an exception.

On 3/15/2024 at 2:24 PM, ADM said:

I really don't dislike having a minor movement speed reduction such as wearing a Piggyback, it's fine. She's gaining so much strengths from old age it would be only fair. Plus that'd invite to use her Backtrek Watch over direct kiting which has different benefits and inconveniences. This is a fine downside !

I don't know if you have ever played Wanda but it is backstep watch that lets her kite and that is one reason why I don't want to see this change, players that don't play the character just want to nerf because of some balance that doesn't really matter in DST.

On 3/15/2024 at 6:53 PM, ADM said:

You make this sound as being old is the rule, but it's a capacity (and a crazy good one). If I can count on my fingers the amount of threats that become insurmountable with ~10% slowness I'm still very much sold by it considering the other options.

To explain my position better, I'll say this:

I am against almost all character downsides being relevant in the late game game and unsurmountable, for example Warly. 

Character speed is probably the most important stat.

On 3/16/2024 at 9:27 AM, Sacco said:

she has backtreck watch, so make her slower to make people use that thing more.

Again, a player that doesn't play Wanda and doesn't know that it is backstep watch that replaces kiting and backtrek watch teleports her.

A lot of players just want to see her nerfed because their main isn't as strong and they are either jealous or have no good explanation. If you have never played the character and don't even know the names of her watches, you can't really discuss the balance of the said character in a meaningful way.

4 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

How often do you die while playing as her? Give an honest per-season average guess.

He doesn't play Wanda or otherwise he wouldn't confuse the watch names.

4 hours ago, comonavi said:

Exactly, old age just means she's low health. I'll admit I rarely play her but it's a simple risk for reward scenario, is that so bad? Another downside might make it more interesting but you must realize not everyone plays with one finger on the rollback button... and a speed nerf would be the most boring drawback possible.

Where does this idea that downsides make characters interesting come from? A few exceptions like Wormwood being really unique until you get jelly beans? Literally most characters don't have downsides that matter for a reason, most players don't find them fun.

I'll never play a character like Warly besides swapping to make food because I don't think his downside is warranted or interesting, the only thing it does is make me eat different foods that makes it annoying to deal with over a longer period of time.

3 hours ago, chirsg said:

Wanda can set up a fast travel network. If she falls short in combat compared to combat centric characters, she will still have insurmountable value lol. Wanda with a speed penalty would remain the fastest character in the game. In a single day, she can give pearl a salad, reset the ruins and turn into a monkey and back into a human again, all while geriatric

Teleporting has nothing to do with character speed and like I said previously this is the most important stat.

 

[Mike23Ua]

On 3/15/2024 at 7:05 PM, Yuuko said:

Yes it is, otherwise there would be a point to being in younger forms.  What you're asking for is to CHANGE Wanda to be this way, but this is not the way Wanda is.  She isn't supposed to *only* be old form for combat, otherwise she'd have non-combat buffs when young / middle.

The way Wanda is designed is to encourage a lower-health life style, changing and in some ways increasing the risk.  This is pretty clearly done by having pretty much no advantages when young, and some combat advantages when middle, with big combat advantages when old.

The only time you'd want to leave old age is if you're going to be spam crafting or doing a lot of work, in which case you might wind a few watches for that stretch - but otherwise its old age all the time.

This is so beyond false.. especially on a Xbox, PlayStation or Nintendo console that is prone to lag spikes at any given moment, Wanda is fun… right up till the moment trying to fight a solo lagging Beefalo kills her over dead.

I have a suspicion that “Wanda” was added to the game to test if DST would be capable of getting mobs with Shipwrecked and Hamlets poison damage bleed out effect, and because that never actually came to the game.. Wanda probably threw up a bunch of red flags on how constant bleeding out from poison damage in a laggy multiplayer game would need a ton of optimization first before it can be enjoyable.

I also think telling people to be old Wanda at all times is exactly how you DONT play Wanda…

Because unless Klei patched it so it’s less harsh on her, Wanda can not use her age rewind clocks when suffering overheating/freezing or the effects of Acid Rain.

Defiantly NOT a Character I want to be on the brink of death with when literally no revival method works at all..

[_zwb]

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I have a suspicion that “Wanda” was added to the game to test if DST would be capable of getting mobs with Shipwrecked and Hamlets poison damage bleed out effect, and because that never actually came to the game.. Wanda probably threw up a bunch of red flags on how constant bleeding out from poison damage in a laggy multiplayer game would need a ton of optimization first before it can be enjoyable.

Overheating and freezing are bleeding effects, it's obvious that the game can handle it, unless you're running it on potatoes.

[W0l0l0]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

I don't know if you have ever played Wanda but it is backstep watch that lets her kite and that is one reason why I don't want to see this change, players that don't play the character just want to nerf because of some balance that doesn't really matter in DST.

For starters, ADM has at least 6000 hours in this game, and they're quite intimate with most things the game has to offer.

Secondly, balance is important. It's not as important as for many other games, sure, but I can clearly see issues with certain characters dominating the spotlight because of how easy and ridiculous they can be.

Weak characters get left in the dust, lose fans, and then nobody even bothers to care about them anymore. Wilson fans have had a bit of an outcry due to how weak he is, and he's only got that popularity due to who he is. How many people are fighting for Walter, who doesn't even have that?

I don't care (within the confines of this post) that a certain character can do whatever thing better than Wanda technically, or how a nerf would ruin your experience with her. Wanda is far, far beyond what characters could originally do. She represents (to me at least), the most obnoxious powercreep jump I have seen in Don't Starve, and I blame her for Maxwell needing an equally ridiculous buff to compete.

I'm also not saying that I particularly agree with these specific proposed nerfs, but that nerfs are in short supply, and I believe players should consider them for the good of the weaker characters instead of instinctively recoiling.