Is it time to abandon DST?

[Mike23Ua]

over the past year or so Klei has tried to add content into DST that everyone can get a bit of enjoyment out of, however.. when they first add these features they end criticized and eventually.. nerfed, toned down, or changed to not be anything like their original implementation.

Some examples:

Klei adds a sailable ocean, Players make massive at sea boat bases, Klei adds Troubled Waters Update that adds hostile things into said sea like sharks! The peaceful boat Basers complain, sharks get Nerfed to an almost obscure corner of the map, you literally now have to go looking for sharks to encounter sharks..

This sounds familiar doesn’t it? Klei adds Moon Quay & Monkey Curse, the original implementation make them actual survival based challenges with periodic attacks at sea and a fairly annoying curse you need to remove.

The peaceful sea fishing players complain & now pirate raids are almost non-existent, the curse is also equally laughably easy to get rid of.

Klei adds Lunar Rifts (1) the rifts spread across the ground breaking uprooting the things they ice over players complain and now they try quote “very hard” not to spawn near your base.

Klei adds Shadow Rifts, Acid Rain & Boulder Quakes- Players cry they need permanent structures to remove these newly introduced threats.

Lunar Rifts (2) Lunar Hail Storms now cause damage to mobs caught in the Hailstorm, there will no doubt be nerfs and tweaks that’ll affect this in the next week or so but ALL OF THIS makes me question if it isn’t time to just make a brand new game & completely abandon DST??

Hear me out- If Klei was to add Deerclops as a NEW Mob/boss into the game TODAY I guarantee you she would be complained about & Nerfed into complete oblivion, and would quote “try very hard to avoid your base”

I am directly complaining about megabases, and with a valid reasoning.. they were only EVER able to build their bases up to the point they have now… because there was no new content added to the game to challenge their ability to create these map wide sprawling base designs.

which circles back to the original topic, had all the new features Klei are trying to incorporate lately been in the base game at the games launch.. players would not be able to create these map wide bases (or at the very least they’d need to learn how to work around all the additional features to still create their mega city parks)

I feel like Klei is ironically at a stalemate when it comes to content for DST.. what can they add to the game that’s going to add new survival based challenges, that doesn’t also disrupt the old gameplay loop people have grown far to attached to?

My one and only solution I could reasonably come up with is to Abandon DST & just make a brand new game with all the bold changes & ideas you want to incorporate into dst, but can’t due to the above reasons & beyond..

[Q42]

These poll options feel awfully skewed...

[GelatinousCube]

Extremely biased and personal options here Mike. We aren't all a hivemind who think the same as you.

"I really don’t care either way.. I just want Klei to be able to do what they want to do with their game and franchise without their vision clashing with what fans expect the game to be."

-Klei appreciate and take much of our feedback on board hence the betas and them implementing many suggestions that are made. This option is worded badly.

"No, keep working on DST and let ideas get Nerfed into oblivion to accommodate for players already established playstyles & gameplay loop."

-What if people want them to keep working on DST but not nerf ideas into oblivion and not accommodate for established playstyle and gameplay loop? 

"Yes a new game with all the ideas they’re trying to add to dst already added as core gameplay features would be lovely!"

-Ahhh the only option with an actual positive spin added on so clearly what you voted for/actually want and what you hope others vote for!

"I didn’t vote ;)" 

- what anyone who isn't Mike should vote for basically.

[Auth]

On 9/29/2023 at 10:15 PM, Mike23Ua said:

Klei adds a sailable ocean, Players make massive at sea boat bases, Klei adds Troubled Waters Update that adds hostile things into said sea like sharks! The peaceful boat Basers complain, sharks get Nerfed to an almost obscure corner of the map, you literally now have to go looking for sharks to encounter sharks..

...What?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Look, here's the thing. This is how Don't Starve's development has been for a while. While I personally, very strongly, even, DISAGREE with many directions the game is taking, I would much rather have Klei listen to feedback about the game and work around player expectations and desires, than have them axe the project entirely to go on to make something else, something that I definitely would not like.

It's especially plain to see, really, that when Klei adds things, they're in pretty rough condition. That's why they're actively looking for and listening to feedback. These "nerfs" are really just Klei going back and re-tuning things to get them to a more fleshed-out point. Or attempting to, at least.

I personally think the bigger problem is that they're stretching themselves far too thin, adding too much stuff to keep on top of it all before finishing the last, and losing a lot of depth that could be added from their initial introduction. That's what leads to these weird band-aid fixes like whatever the hell happened to Moon Quay, the emptiness of certain features, (All 3 lunar altars have the same exact crafts! STILL! WHY?) and things that feel like they were conceptually completely abandoned once they were shook off the shelves. (The atrium is fuelweaver's boss arena and.... nothing else, really. They JUST got around to adding something else for the archives to do.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To use your own comparison, let's say, Deerclops.

Deerclops has an exceptionally long warning before appearing compared to most things. Hell, deerclops' arrival can be predicted by experienced players. Deerclops' destructive power is focused entirely around the radius that surrounds Deerclops, which can very easily be lured, moved, and manipulated by the player, at their leisure. Deerclops only destroys your base and buildings if you are ill-prepared for the threat. Even then, Deerclops only comes on their own accord once per in-game year.

On the other hand, a mechanic such as the boulders in the caves, has a much shorter warning window. Their destructive radius is pretty much exactly where the player is at the moment of warning, which cannot be changed or manipulated by the player once the spots are picked. The boulders come at seemingly random times, repeatedly, forever.

Adding a mechanic that requires a boss to be killed & upkeep (Or an extremely expensive version of the same thing that requires a harder boss, but no upkeep) to add some method to the madness isn't exactly a crazy huge nerf that ruins the devs true intentions, where us evil community members are trampling all over their hopes and dreams of smashing our alchemy engines and campfires.

[ButterStuffed]

What in the world.

[Brago-sama]

I think you're just burnt out bro. The creator(s) of this game have a vision, and although we can influence it slightly on the forums, this train aint stoping unless the money flow stops, which i dont see happeneing. I very much suggest trying new games, to try and fill this void I see you have.

Currently im playing The Long Dark. I think it might be a nice fit for you as you seem to want an uncaring survival world. Items/food degrades and disapears if you dont loot fast enough, hunting for foods risky in general, constant wolf and bear threat, is cold. Might scratch that itch you seem to have

[Cassielu]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Klei adds a sailable ocean, Players make massive at sea boat bases, Klei adds Troubled Waters Update that adds hostile things into said sea like sharks! The peaceful boat Basers complain, sharks get Nerfed to an almost obscure corner of the map, you literally now have to go looking for sharks to encounter sharks..

This sounds familiar doesn’t it? Klei adds Moon Quay & Monkey Curse, the original implementation make them actual survival based challenges with periodic attacks at sea and a fairly annoying curse you need to remove.

Do you really know anything about them?  Or are you just disappointed by things that don't exist when you actually touch them and find out they're not what you originally thought they were? As far as I know, many players who are not really involved in the beta, and those who are involved in the beta but are not among the leading edge game content explorers, can easily confuse other players' increasing knowledge of the new content with the changes that Klei has made.

The monkey pirate has not been "nerf to almost non-existent," and has always existed only near the Moon Quay.  But once you get close to it, you're swamped by a tidal wave of successive pirate attacks. 

[Mike23Ua]

18 minutes ago, Brago-sama said:

I think you're just burnt out bro. The creator(s) of this game have a vision, and although we can influence it slightly on the forums, this train aint stoping unless the money flow stops, which i dont see happeneing. I very much suggest trying new games, to try and fill this void I see you have.

Currently im playing The Long Dark. I think it might be a nice fit for you as you seem to want an uncaring survival world. Items/food degrades and disapears if you dont loot fast enough, hunting for foods risky in general, constant wolf and bear threat, is cold. Might scratch that itch you seem to have

Thanks for the suggestion but, I actually already have that game, I was in the closed beta for it before story was even added! <3 fun little game by the way. I defiantly recommend it to anyone looking for a survival sandbox experience. 
Maybe I am burned out on DST..

But between DS/SW/Ham we could’ve had a total of 12 different seasons instead of being hard stuck on the 4 we’ve had since 2015..

[Mario384]

Game's been going in a weird Terraria-style boss kill progression system for a while now. It doesn't really mesh with the survival portion of the game, but this is the path they've carved since Seth's been gone. I doubt it will change, especially after this long.

[_zwb]

8 minutes ago, Mario384 said:

since Seth's been gone.

When did he leave, and why?

[Philip.]

1 hour ago, _zwb said:

When did he leave, and why?

Who is that?

[_zwb]

3 minutes ago, Philip. said:

Who is that?

Seth Rosen, former Klei developer

[Ardyn]

4 hours ago, _zwb said:

When did he leave, and why?

Before the release of ANR. Perhaps he had a larger ideal, as he immediately participated in the development of Mafia III. Seth participated in the development of DS and DST for about 2 years, and after that, he left Klei, but his design philosophy is very important for DST.

[Horsheen]

It's nuts to me that you complain about features being nerfed when you were the very person that wanted food to be nerfed

[Retepeter]

The answer choices are really like

do you like cheese?

-no it sucks

-yes but it sucks

-yes but only because im forced to eat it

-i dont care but it sucks

 

mike please you clearly dont like the game, if you dont like it just play something else

[Dr. Safety]

No one is forcing us to play this game

[Well-met]

speak for yourself lol.

[Mike23Ua]

8 minutes ago, Retepeter said:

The answer choices are really like

do you like cheese?

-no it sucks

-yes but it sucks

-yes but only because im forced to eat it

-i dont care but it sucks

 

mike please you clearly dont like the game, if you dont like it just play something else

I’m allergic to cheese.. but besides that I enjoyed Solo DS, I enjoyed Shipwrecked, I enjoyed Hamlet.. what I have an extremely hard time enjoying however is DST.

Every other update adds a new boss, or mutates an old boss, the last size-able bit of exploration based content we got was Forgotten Knowledges which added the Lunar Grotto & the Ancient Archives.
Prior to that we had Lunar Island.

both of these contents added new mobs, and a new Lunacy effect the player needed to contend with.

after those though- Klei’s been doing this weird thing of instead of creating new mobs and areas to explore, they opt to instead transform existing mobs & bosses.

If they’re different enough.. that’s fine and okay (like the new Varg that spits flames) however I don’t feel like moon toads that aren’t any different from the regular toads (outside of planar damage) is all that big of a deal..

If they grew in size, if hitting them released exploding moon spores, if there was something that made them different & unique maybe I’d accept them more, but I for one don’t like a simple Recoloring of an already existing mob with no new mechanics attached to it.

Im also a bit confused why Brightshades attack the Lunar born & thus aligned Wormwood but lunar aligned Toads that are being possessed by what I can only assume are eldritch gods are completely passive to Wurt.

If I enjoyed DS & it’s DLCs but don’t enjoy DST as much.. maybe that’s a problem with DST being too different from what came before it? The game is literally starting to feel like a Boss Rush simulator.. & I’m tired of every update focusing on a boss or a Boss Vr2.0, I would LIKE some actual new weather hazards, some actual new biomes, & some actual new mobs.

[Retepeter]

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I’m allergic to cheese.. but besides that I enjoyed Solo DS, I enjoyed Shipwrecked, I enjoyed Hamlet.. what I have an extremely hard time enjoying however is DST.

Every other update adds a new boss, or mutates an old boss, the last size-able bit of exploration based content we got was Forgotten Knowledges which added the Lunar Grotto & the Ancient Archives.
Prior to that we had Lunar Island.

both of these contents added new mobs, and a new Lunacy effect the player needed to contend with.

after those though- Klei’s been doing this weird thing of instead of creating new mobs and areas to explore, they opt to instead transform existing mobs & bosses.

If they’re different enough.. that’s fine and okay (like the new Varg that spits flames) however I don’t feel like moon toads that aren’t any different from the regular toads (outside of planar damage) is all that big of a deal..

If they grew in size, if hitting them released exploding moon spores, if there was something that made them different & unique maybe I’d accept them more, but I for one don’t like a simple Recoloring of an already existing mob with no new mechanics attached to it.

Im also a bit confused why Brightshades attack the Lunar born & thus aligned Wormwood but lunar aligned Toads that are being possessed by what I can only assume are eldritch gods are completely passive to Wurt.

If I enjoyed DS & it’s DLCs but don’t enjoy DST as much.. maybe that’s a problem with DST being too different from what came before it? The game is literally starting to feel like a Boss Rush simulator.. & I’m tired of every update focusing on a boss or a Boss Vr2.0, I would LIKE some actual new weather hazards, some actual new biomes, & some actual new mobs.

thats fine, its fine to not like a game. but if you dont like it just play singleplayer and dont ask for the game to be like singleplayer

[Valase]

Answering the title question, if the game state makes you this mad, you should take your time out, so yes, it is time to abandon DST.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

See you next monday.

[Echsrick]

i dont know for me it seems like the newer stuff feels more gettin annoying

[Uedo]

My recommendation is that you learn to play the game without your settings toggled and actually try to make it to endgame. There's no point going around in circles like what usually happens. If you then find it enjoyable; Great, If you still don't like the game - maybe take some time away or just stop playing for a bit, maybe having the same arguments everyday about the same topics on the forums is adding to your frustration

[Retepeter]

2 minutes ago, Uedo said:

My recommendation is that you learn to play the game without your settings toggled and actually try to make it to endgame. There's no point going around in circles like what usually happens. If you then find it enjoyable; Great, If you still don't like the game - maybe take some time away or just stop playing for a bit, maybe having the same arguments everyday about the same topics on the forums is adding to your frustration

You're expecting a Wendy main to change their opinion and get good.

You want a wendy main to get good at the game, think about that

[Catteflyterpill]

Is there any point to the poll other than to be inflammatory? I think you're looking through things with a very narrow lens that fits your vision of things you'd like to see. Maybe try being more open minded towards what other players might want and the direction the devs take the game? Rather than just assuming your vision of making a new game is the only possible solution ever.

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, Retepeter said:

You're expecting a Wendy main to change their opinion and get good.

You want a wendy main to get good at the game, think about that

I’ve played as Wes and survived just fine fyi.

I actually find WANDA to be easier to play as then Wendy.. and that’s only because Wanda can have Infinity free healing, and teleport to any location on the map she wants- Meanwhile Wendy limps away on low health needing to tame a Beefalo to go places faster (or get a walking cane)

your completely butchering the original point of this topic though- and that would be is it time for KLEI (not me) to Abandon DST?

There are several factors that come into play that warrant considering abandonment of DST.

Klei Devs have stated publicly that the PS5 & Series X/S would be fully capable of all the features PC version of DST has (larger player limit, bigger worlds, lots & tons as world Gen settings) however.. due to some policy with Sony they can not add anything to DST that wouldn’t also run on the PS4 version.. They even went on to state that they’re have to create a completely different version of the game for the PS5 to add additional features.

What this means for you if you’re not keeping up.. is that DST is limited to the Nintendo Switch’s capabilities & can’t add any content that pushes beyond that.

(it’s also why some peoples older potato PCs have trouble running the game with being unable to pull caves content or frame rate dips near water logged trees or in lunar hail storms)

Then there’s the fact that players have gotten used to how the game played for years and accept that as the “EndGame” while refusing to let new content come into the game that breaks up that overly familiar loop.

I personally feel like it’s about time to work on a new DS game for PS5/Series X/S.. but that’s just my opinion.