This is intended..

[DVGMedia]

 

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Posted 57 minutes ago

I'm actually glad you replied @JoeW I understand the frustration of the OP, but I also always try to keep myself calm and my tone kind, this is why I usually don't reply to posts with an aggressive tone. I believe I was rude only one time in these forums towards the work of the staff, and apart from this exception, I always tried to see things from Klei's side, not only as delevopers, but also as full-time workers who invest their time and resources into a product.

This is why I respect that the team is keeping their own pace at addressing issues, and that not everything has to go according to what the playerbase expects. However when a certain popular discussion or suggestion gets ignored by the staff in a platform specifically targeted at providing a place for (constructive) discussions, player feedback, and keeping an active community, I think it is fair for one side to feel left out from the conversation. In this community, I've realized that more people than one might assume are open towards a middle ground solution, and I believe that constructive discussions start at a point where all sides feel that their voices are heard almost equally loud. Again, I don't support an aggressive tone, however most people don't just go rage on others without a proper reason. This is the point I'm trying to make here.

 

2 hours ago, JoeW said:

what causes your comments to be taken "one ear and out the other". 

On the other hand, while I think it is fair for you to paraphrase the OP's post in such a way in this specific scenario, this reply and the topic itself also raise the question on what one should be doing to get their voices heard to the developer team at all, especially in situations where the developer team seems to be content with the end results while a part of the community thinks that there is a game-breaking issue or an intended/unintended design that raises concerns where a certain aspect of the game is headed towards. 

The OP did get their answers in the end, and ironically we can see how this happened. No one expects a full transparency from Klei's side, but had the community have gotten an answer sooner, even a small one, I doubt this whole conversation would start in the first place. The core issue here is that a certain part of the community feels like their ideas don't matter at all, and to be honest I can relate to this. Even when we make a suggestion or post a bug report in the most civilised manners, the default result is either getting completely ignored (not even getting a "known issue" tag for example), or getting made fun of or sometimes even getting flamed by other forum users. When the staff stays silent in these scenarios, how is it even possible for the side with the "controversial" arguments to even get their voices heard, or to prove that their arguments are not controversial in the first place?

The playerbase needs the feedback from the developer's to make their suggestions, and I don't think pointing out every aspect that we think is relevant is going to create the environment for a constructive discussion, exactly because of the situation I explained earlier. However, since we are going over to the forums to give our feedback and we keep on doing this despite the negativity and/or the indifference, I think it should be clear that we are doing this because we care about how the game developes, and seeing just a small amount of support from the staff for "controversial" people like us would not only help a lot in building a healthy environment for constructive discussions, but would also help us feel to be a part of a larger community.

I hope I was clear enough in voicing my concerns here, and hope for any kind of feedback because I'm starting to feel like joining the forums and expecting to get heard by the staff was a big mistake on my part.

This says the concern more eloquently than I do
but if you want rage keep scrolling lol

Honestly I cant believe this really is the case.  Is this the reason klei is not talking?
Because this is really how they want the game to play?

A reason why people complain is because what was taken was actually something good in the game.
Being able to have the animation be faster is good....
like just because the animation is slightly slower its a bug?

LIke gosh dang are you guys actually developers?
there is absolute reasons why the cancellation exists.

It makes the game run and feel better to play.....
The only real way the creators get to hear what happens in the game is through the players so Im here as a player to say klei Don't be head strong about this.

Listen to the players that got 6 7... 8 years playing your game.
alot of the times things seem like it goes one ear and out the other. It almost seems like you got distracted by trying to make the game look good.
but completely ignored on how it plays.

[BezKa]

Just to be clear:

Developers don't owe us anything. They make the game, they decide what is aligned with their vision, they decide what bugs get fixed and what gets changed.

It's great when community gives feedback and is invested in what Klei is creating- but we need to stop acting entitled or we're going to be stuck in a loop of "I deserve this > I didn't get it > I deserve compensation for it > I didn't get it" forever and just waste our energy on being angry over something that should be giving us enjoyment.

If you want to tell Klei your opinion, do so. Just don't insult them while you do it, or any other players who might disagree with you. Just because you bought the game a while back doesn't mean you will be personally consulted on every update.

[JoeW]

For what it's worth, statements like "LIke gosh dang are you guys actually developers?" are going to be what causes your comments to be taken "one ear and out the other". 
 

[Another membe]

You guys always say the game is too easy and it needs difficulty, but the moment devs make something less easy/remove an exploit, you immediately whine about it.

[DVGMedia]

1 minute ago, BezKa said:

Just to be clear:

Developers don't owe us anything. They make the game, they decide what is aligned with their vision, they decide what bugs get fixed and what gets changed.

It's great when community gives feedback and is invested in what Klei is creating- but we need to stop acting entitled or we're going to be stuck in a loop of "I deserve this > I didn't get it > I deserve compensation for it > I didn't get it" forever and just waste our energy on being angry over something that should be giving us enjoyment.

If you want to tell Klei your opinion, do so. Just don't insult them while you do it, or any other players who might disagree with you. Just because you bought the game a while back doesn't mean you will be personally consulted on every update.

Developers owe us everything because if it wasn't for us they wouldn't have a job....
Companies require people to buy their products. and if their product ends up sucking the people don't buy it.

There is very few people that are still on the team when this version was officially created and very slowly devs have left. All changed to new developers with new ideas. I didn't subscribe to that!

Don't tell be that I cant be angry at the team for causing problems
since this is an actively updated game.
and we all know they don't play their game at least to a point where players understand it.
I hate to say it but these developers are not triple A
Where they have intense development experience on making a polished but fun product.  I feel like straight up these people are just shooting in the dark.

And i know their intentions are good They want to make it better Thats the whole reason they are trying to fix the networking and everything.
But there are things that the playerbase has grown used to that they should not just take out and just say OH yeah that It was a bug all along  so we took it out.
It is a give an take.





 

11 minutes ago, JoeW said:

For what it's worth, statements like "LIke gosh dang are you guys actually developers?" is going to be what causes your comments to be "one ear and out the other". 

Are you serious man? Dont make this emotional. Can you actually take some criticism?
We havent even heard a word from devs about this other than headstrong statements.
Can we like actually  hear whats going on up at hq? You know PR is important
But responses like this doesn't really make it seem like you care...
 

[HowlVoid]

As a console player I do hope for some qol improvements such as queuing up gathering. I think it would make the game a lot more enjoyable for a lot of people. Maybe I'm wrong but spam clicking seem to be slightly faster than auto working?

With a game that has a lot of monotonous clicking it can get a little harsh on the hands for long periods of time. Especially when one method is rewarded over the other.

I hope you consider this for me and others aging hands. Thanks .

[Just-guy]

8 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

snip

Yeah... this ain't it chief, it just makes you sound entitled.

[Another membe]

2 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

As a console player I do hope for some qol improvements such as queuing up gathering. I think it would make the game a lot more enjoyable for a lot of people. Maybe I'm wrong but spam clicking seem to be slightly faster than auto working?

With a game that has a lot of monotonous clicking it can get a little harsh on the hands for long periods of time. Especially when one method is rewarded over the other.

I hope you consider this for me and others aging hands. Thanks .

I think a console specific qol is long overdue. If any Klei devs see this - make O button actions easier as Wortox, as I waste at least 5 souls accidentally every time when resetting tooth traps. 

[Milordo]

While I'm being neutral with all of this, I think it's best to stay calm, take a deep breath and try to reason, instead of going full Wonkey or Wilbur. 

It's not the first time Klei did an oopsie and surely will not be the last one. Oh, how much problems still DST brings today and how much critics I would bring on the table but from my long knowledge (btw, hi, I'm one of those 10 years players, been playing the game since beta 2013) they always listened really really carefully (Joew even beated me while I was writing this comment). I would love too Klei to be more open and transparent. Discussing with them, to understand better the reasonings and thoughts behind those ideas, instead of throwing hypotesis based on the game and history ( for example, I always thought the Twins was such an awful terrible designed boss because they simply failed again during the job like Crab King, but discovering instead it was them being late to the release of the content and wanting to put more Terraria bosses leading to Twins being rushed, changed my view entirely. Still doesn't excuse them but it still better to make things clear). However you can't expect nice things will happen either with provocatory message like this one.

Obviously I'm not advocating into blindly defense Klei, just keep calm and let's try to reach a middle ground. We know Klei are not nowhere the usual "bad company" and the world will not implode on itself for a slow reduced speed. 

[DVGMedia]

1 minute ago, Just-guy said:

Yeah... this ain't it chief, it just makes you sound entitled.

I mean if you were to go into a resturant and you bought something that was bad.
What would you do?
Just take it as is and never go again
or bring it up to the person who made it..
I know certainly there are people who just wont say anything Because it gives them a bad image.
But that doesn't fix the problem.

[Mike23Ua]

I’m personally not a huge fan of making things in the game slower, attack speed, walking speed, animation cancelations etc.. it just makes it feel like a slow slog but that’s just my personal opinion, it’s the reason WHY I set out to tame a Beefalo on day 1 or put two masts on my boat, doing things slowly just doesn't translate to fun for me.

It doesn’t need to be “crazy fast” either though, and when it comes to certain things.. (summoning Abigail, recalling Abigail) there needs to be a few seconds of vulnerability Risk Vs Reward that also goes for Wickers/Maxwells Book Spell Casting.

But again that’s just my opinion.

[DVGMedia]

4 minutes ago, Milordo said:

While I'm being neutral with all of this, I think it's best to stay calm, take a deep breath and try to reason, instead of going full Wonkey or Wilbur. 

It's not the first time Klei did an oopsie and surely will not be the last one. Oh, how much problems still DST brings today and how much critics I would bring on the table but from my long knowledge (btw, hi, I'm one of those 10 years players, been playing the game since beta 2013) they always listened really really carefully (Joew even beated me while I was writing this comment). I would love too Klei to be more open and transparent. Discussing with them, to understand better the reasonings and thoughts behind those ideas, instead of throwing hypotesis based on the game and history ( for example, I always thought the Twins was such an awful terrible designed boss because they simply failed again during the job like Crab King, but discovering instead it was them being late to the release of the content and wanting to put more Terraria bosses leading to Twins being rushed, changed my view entirely. Still doesn't excuse them but it still better to make things clear). However you can't expect nice things will happen either with provocatory message like this one.

Obviously I'm not advocating into blindly defense Klei, just keep calm and let's try to reach a middle ground. We know Klei are not nowhere the usual "bad company" and the world will not implode on itself for a slow reduced speed. 

Really thats all I want and i think i can speak for others that are complaining. We just want to hear from the devs whats going on.

[-Variant]

12 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Developers owe us everything because if it wasn't for us they wouldn't have a job....
Companies require people to buy their products. and if their product ends up sucking the people don't buy it.

There is very few people that are still on the team when this version was officially created and very slowly devs have left. All changed to new developers with new ideas. I didn't subscribe to that!

Don't tell be that I cant be angry at the team for causing problems
since this is an actively updated game.

This is not their fault. What are you angry at? The natural development of the game? All games do this.
I don't like it much either but I can't be mad at Klei for continuing to literally just exist.

Additionally JoeW has a point there, yes as developers they are supposed to take criticisms, and yes I'd love for them to be far more open to us. PR is important, yes!

But as a dev myself I can say that I'd much rather listen to the well thought out and good mannered written post providing actual feedback over someone choosing to insult me. 
Head strong or not must people insult each other and then question why the devs don't speak up? This happens a lot.

[MadMatt]

2 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

I mean if you were to go into a resturant and you bought something that was bad.
What would you do?
Just take it as is and never go again
or bring it up to the person who made it..

I mean, there's a difference between bringing it up and saying the chefs aren't really chefs and just insulting them. Just suggest the changes you want and if they don't listen then continue to bring it up or decide it's an issue worth dropping the game over. It really is unnecessary to tie insults into your suggestion in any capacity :/

 

But yeah it'd be nice if things were faster and better :> If cancelling is being phased out then some recompense should be given to make the change more palatable.

[ALCRD]

The worst thing about this update has to be the attack speed change.

I love that kiting without using speed boosts went from tolerable to tedious.

I'm loving the inconsistency too and hits not registering when they should!

[slendyproject]

4 minutes ago, Another membe said:

You guys always say the game is too easy and it needs difficulty, but the moment devs make something less easy/remove an exploit, you immediately whine about it.

This is not an issue of difficulty. Chopping and mining are just tedious to do chores, theres nothing difficult about them. The problem isnt that they fixed the bug, its that gathering is just kinda slow and not very exciting. People used it for a reason, chopping trees especially early game is boring.

But I think that there are very easy middle ground solutions like for example golden tools could just be more efficent/faster at gathering stuff than the flint counterparts.

[Mike23Ua]

7 minutes ago, Another membe said:

I think a console specific qol is long overdue. If any Klei devs see this - make O button actions easier as Wortox, as I waste at least 5 souls accidentally every time when resetting tooth traps. 

I’ve already told Klei how to easily fix this.. but it’s going to come at a cost to both Console and PC players.

As with Summoning/Recalling Abigail: The Player needs to have the Flower Selected in their Inventory, therefore the player should need to have Souls selected in their inventory before soul actions can be performed.

Keep everything exactly as it is now..  only you don’t accidentally teleport around the map while pressing O or B unless you have them SELECTED in Inventory.

[Another membe]

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I’ve already told Klei how to easily fix this.. but it’s going to come at a cost to both Console and PC players.

As with Summoning/Recalling Abigail: The Player needs to have the Flower Selected in their Inventory, therefore the player should need to have Souls selected in their inventory before soul actions can be performed.

Keep everything exactly as it is now..  only you don’t accidentally teleport around the map while pressing O or B unless you have them SELECTED in Inventory.

Honestly, as an avid wortox main - this is a good solution! Wortox is op, undeniably, so having to specifically select souls to use them is both a (slight) nerf and a fix for the O button issues.

It'll take some time to learn to select souls, but I don't mind, I think.

[Milordo]

4 minutes ago, Another membe said:

 Wortox is op, undeniably

[DVGMedia]

10 minutes ago, -Variant said:

This is not their fault. What are you angry at? The natural development of the game? All games do this.
I don't like it much either but I can't be mad at Klei for continuing to literally just exist.

Additionally JoeW has a point there, yes as developers they are supposed to take criticisms, and yes I'd love for them to be far more open to us. PR is important, yes!

But as a dev myself I can say that I'd much rather listen to the well thought out and good mannered written post providing actual feedback over someone choosing to insult me. 
Head strong or not must people insult each other and then question why the devs don't speak up? This happens a lot.

If a person is mad and angry sometimes it is a post of passion.
and alot of times its not thought out. My first post definitely is that
But that doesn't mean its any less valid.
Now that we got a dev here to respond it would be nice to actually talk about it.
Being in a profession where your livelyhood is based on what you make.  You take both the good and the bad.
of course cant please everyone though.
But if there is a concern that is happening within the creation and there is outcry
It should be taken a look at. Rather than just ignored.
So please @JoeW@JesseB_Klei and any other devs that I don't know  can we talk why this is a problem at the moment?
and will it be able to be reverted?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, DVGMedia said:

Because this is really how they want the game to play?

yes?

i didnt played in a while so idk how bad are the new animations for atacking, chopping, w/e but complaining in that thone about cancelling certain casting animations that the developers considered that were to short just because you took advantage of them in the past knowing that you were making them shorter by simply pressing a movement key...

casting animations are a key part of videogames

1 hour ago, DVGMedia said:

It makes the game run and feel better to play.....

easier you mean

 

1 hour ago, DVGMedia said:

LIke gosh dang are you guys actually developers?

they knew how to recode that so...yes? maybe is time to be a developer and create your own mods to remove all kind of balance, restrictions, cost, etc

 

1 hour ago, DVGMedia said:

Listen to the players that got 6 7... 8 years playing your game.

im here since spider queen, im not complaining about not being able to cancel pan flute that soon. Maybe BQ would required a better timing now

44 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Developers owe us everything because if it wasn't for us they wouldn't have a job....

now i can imagine what kind of costumer you are when you enter in a bar... 

[DVGMedia]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

casting animations are a key part of videogames

Canceling is also part of video games...  so we are at an impass.
Theres reason for everything. you can even see it within single player vs together.
Single player does not have animation canceling. And certainly the game is harder. its also slower but it does kind of work in that setting since its only the player and the environment.

Dst is completely different because there are more factors to take into account. Most egregiously that being latency lag and networking. Even if the player plays a world by themselves they are affected by this.
So having cancels helps out much more and makes things much better in Together Than they are in single player. They are 2 different games that require different thought processes on how they should be approached.

[JoeW]

33 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Are you serious man? Dont make this emotional. Can you actually take some criticism?
We havent even heard a word from devs about this other than headstrong statements.
Can we like actually  hear whats going on up at hq? You know PR is important
But responses like this doesn't really make it seem like you care...

The point is, please keep posts constructive and without attack on others. 

But I will reiterate a point that you might have seen me say at other times throughout the years.

We do not generally argue with players or otherwise engage in debates over the game. There are several reasons for this, but mainly we're a small team and we would rather spend our resources working on the game rather than talking about the game. In addition, controversial changes divide the community enough without us chiming in and causing further division based on our comments. 

When we do feel like something needs further explanation, we do it when it's appropriate. Not on individual posts or threads. This has always been the case. 

Finally, for any given change in the game there are going to be people who like it, people who don't like it and people that don't care. Ultimately our default is going to start with our design. If you have points (specific points) as to why you disagree with that design, then please by all means make those points. 

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, DVGMedia said:

Canceling is also part of video games...  so we are at an impass.
Theres reason for everything. you can even see it within single player vs together.
Single player does not have animation canceling. And certainly the game is harder. its also slower but it does kind of work in that setting since its only the player and the environment.

Dst is completely different because there are more factors to take into account. Most egregiously that being latency lag and networking. Even if the player plays a world by themselves they are affected by this.
So having cancels helps out much more and makes things much better in Together Than they are in single player. They are 2 different games that require different thought processes on how they should be approached.

but not for every action on everygame... also i just tested, you can still cancel pan flute animation, just not as stupidly fast as before which isnt a bad thing in a game that is suppose to punish mistakes

[Brago-sama]

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