This is intended..

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

why

You can document that a bug is happening, but the code causing the bug defies documentation b/c it is doing something it is not supposed to.  This hinders maintenance and development.  Buggy code isn't just doing something unintended, its code that isn't working properly.

The old AG is a great example - there was a bug in the code that sometimes gave you a moment for a few extra hits between charges.  If they wanted to increase the time it might stand still between charges, where do they do that?  They don't even know where its happening.  There is no "if xyz then pause" line, there is no tuning "EXTRA_DELAY_BEFORE_CHARGE = 100"  They would first have to fix that bug so that its behaving as coded, then add new behavior for when to pause and how long.

Lavae pathing around walls and getting stuck on lava ponds is another example.  Perhaps its unintended they get caught on lava ponds, but the code that leads to this interaction is working as it is designed to - ie the lavae picks its target and stays locked to them, pathing around walls.  If they wanted to change its behavior they could, because its behavior is all according to its code.

[Mike23Ua]

4 hours ago, Shosuko said:

-snip-

Actually Don’t Starve is available on PS4, Xbox One, Nintendo Switch, Android & IPhone.

In addition Shipwrecked DLC is also on IPhone (Hamlet is not.. ) 

I predict that all these changes and fixes are to more realistically go with a 10year anniversary celebration..

Now as to what that’ll be.. well I can see a number of things: New DS Solo DLC &/Or DLC compatibility with DST- either way Klei for seemingly no reason whatsoever went back to a 9 year old game and decided to tweak and change things, they didn’t just mess with Vanilla DS, they also messed with the SW/Ham expansions.

I don’t want to get “too” hopeful but, maybe we will find out why in the upcoming roadmap (prays for SW/Ham compatibility in DST)

And hopefully we get that roadmap soonish!  

[goatt]

13 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

you are assuming that klei directly fixed the "exploit" to fast work when it might simply a side effect of changing how the connection works...

I'm not sure what you mean. But since I'm getting it, I'll assume I'm not what you are saying, maybe?

I just wanna keep what I'm used to and what I considered as a smooth gaming experience.

Is it really my job to participate in the coding experience?

In other words, I'm only interested in UX, not backend, not UI, because they are too technical to me as a complete noob. But from UX point of view, it didn't feel like a bug, it won't feel like a bug. It should stay as it was.

And it's only fair to keep the UX the same for the players, when you can fix UI or backend however you want.

They fixed the code, but has broken the established UX norm which was treated as a feature, not a bug by players.

[Dunk Mujunk]

7 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Strawman vs strawman...  Gee, I wonder who will "win the internet" on this one lol

and giving us cool skins we can buy then we continue paying for the game over and over again.  Sure SOME might not, YOU might not

Not the one questioning my financial input to Klei. I'd say you misinterpreted the point of my post.

7 hours ago, Shosuko said:

The content isn't "free" because they are kind, its free b/c their monetization for DST is the f2p + microtransactions model 

And it could be far more aggressive, as 90% of monetization models are. 

7 hours ago, Shosuko said:

 (sure DST isn't actually ftp, but that's the model.  The 10 bucks or whatever you originally paid for the game is NOT why we're getting new features now lol)

 

7 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Gee, I wonder who will "win the internet" on this one lol

Again you want to question my financial input. Am I suppose to brag about how much I've spent? I would've figured that's the opposite of what to do.

7 hours ago, Shosuko said:

They don't "owe" us anything, and we don't "owe" them anything, 

Yeah, I'd say we owe them the common decency of not being d*cks to them. They owe us the same thing and I can't cite one time where one of the devs have been unacceptably unpleasant here. And with threads like this they have every right to be.

7 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Criticism is how we make improvements.

CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is how we make improvements. By all means, the state of DST should be discussed and debated. We are obviously the customers and yeah, Klei would prefer us to be happy. 

But it should never be "I'm the customer, your job is to please me, and if I don't get exactly what I want exactly how I want I'm going to sh*t all over you.

16 hours ago, Seero said:

Lol, lmao even, if I did such a bad job I would deserve a bit worse than being sent angry messages, doesn't matter if I like it or not, tough ****. 

Like really. Can you, as an adult, justify this sort of interaction? There's no reason for this, it creates a rift between the devs and the community and it damages communication between the devs and us. As JoeW said, in one ear and out the other. The more of this there is, the less we hear from Klei other than when they absolutely have to post.

To the point of the initial post, meh. Maybe the changes haven't hit console yet, I generally (due to the past sketchiness of split screen PS4) tank, let another entity do the killing, or sleep then blow things up. I'm confident either Klei will fix things if there is an issue, or the changes are the precursor to something more.

7 hours ago, Shosuko said:

eh maybe problem solved for me - gonna try that - sucks console can't use mods lol)

Sick burn.

[00petar00]

2 hours ago, Dunk Mujunk said:

Not the one questioning my financial input to Klei. I'd say you misinterpreted the point of my post.

Klei is making money though skins and game sales that they can support updating the game, they wouldn't update the game if they didn't earn money and weren't getting paid. There are enough people buying skins that they can support the dev team and they can keep updating the game at the current pace. 

2 hours ago, Dunk Mujunk said:

And it could be far more aggressive, as 90% of monetization models are. 

Do you realize that you are getting manipulated? That is how companies get you to accept all the trash they add to games. Everyone was against these types of monetization at first but now you can see how mobile games and even a lot of the pc games are and you are grateful to the devs that just have 10-20% of what Diablo Immortal or any gacha game has and you are okay with it. If there is an option to P2W in a game, I don't think anyone should play them but a lot of people just don't care anymore and they are the products for companies so that P2W players can feel great pummeling them in arenas and feel great about themselves.

These companies that design P2W systems by hiring psychologists so that they can figure out the most addictive monetization systems to take advantage of people that don't have as much self control or have mental issues, its weird how so many people still keep playing and that is why nothing is changing for the better and just keeps getting worse.

2 hours ago, Dunk Mujunk said:

Yeah, I'd say we owe them the common decency of not being d*cks to them. They owe us the same thing and I can't cite one time where one of the devs have been unacceptably unpleasant here. And with threads like this they have every right to be.

That's not something you owe to anyone, that's basic respect you should have for anyone you interact with.

2 hours ago, Dunk Mujunk said:

CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is how we make improvements. By all means, the state of DST should be discussed and debated. We are obviously the customers and yeah, Klei would prefer us to be happy. 

But it should never be "I'm the customer, your job is to please me, and if I don't get exactly what I want exactly how I want I'm going to sh*t all over you.

Constructive criticism without being rude is how people should interact with developers but there is nothing wrong with the playerbase as a whole expecting the game to be developed in a way that they can accept. It is true that all of us can't agree on every single change but there are changes that a big part of the playerbase leans on either liking or disliking.

 

[hhh2]

On 1/25/2023 at 11:17 PM, DVGMedia said:

I mean if you were to go into a resturant and you bought something that was bad.
What would you do?
Just take it as is and never go again
or bring it up to the person who made it..
I know certainly there are people who just wont say anything Because it gives them a bad image.
But that doesn't fix the problem.

Well, I was at this terrible, but expensive, restaurant last Wednesday. The food was awful. I had fish 'n chips, because I got the munchies for some comfort food, and fish 'n chips is as comfort as it comes. It was under cooked so much, I didn't even eat it. But I didn't complain to the chef. He might have been having a bad night and didn't want to work, but had to.

Remember there is a person on the other end of the line. That's all I'm saying.

That place did get a terrible yahoo eats review, however. Just no. NEVER again. And it was the worst sticky toffee pudding I've eaten, too!

[DVGMedia]

12 minutes ago, hhh2 said:

That place did get a terrible yahoo eats review, however. Just no. NEVER again. And it was the worst sticky toffee pudding I've eaten, too!

Lol Sad for that meal. But you can see that some one ended up speaking up. It may not have been you to do it. Though it eventually happened Still sadly not to the person only on a side area That people may not look at. Some people may go there and still end up having the same experience you did if it was a chronic problem.
instead of a one time problem like you explained it could be. Thing is klei is a business and they work in the service industry. There are basic rules you have to abide by despite however you are feeling that day. And its the same for any job taken anywhere every job has their own rules you have to follow.

Of course it would feel amazing to plow into the hecklers But you got to treat them with kindness too. And not stoop to their level.
https://aofund.org/resource/10-customer-service-rules-abide/

1. Be Nice
2. Respect Your Customers
3. Listen
4. Be Positive
5. Offer Solutions, Not Excuses
6. Be Honest
7. Go the Extra Mile
8. Apologize
9. Ask for Feedback
10. Say “Thank You”

If You Treat Your Customers Well and They’ll Return the Favor
We are the customers in this situation. I understand that I was aggressive in this threads opening.  But the defusers Shouldn't be other forum users.  It should be klei themselves.
But instead they provide excuses saying. "Oh we don't want to spend time on that cause we are a small team. And we would rather spend time and resources on development."  The thing is despite how small you are Customer service is always something that needs to be done. And it needs to be done right.

I mean honestly I would take slower development If we had more communication.

But its sad to say I don't think klei can do that not to any fault of them. But because they have a big daddy now that bought them out. So they have to do things at a much quicker pace.

This post here shows all that I care about its written so well.

 

[Seero]

3 hours ago, Dunk Mujunk said:

Like really. Can you, as an adult, justify this sort of interaction? There's no reason for this, it creates a rift between the devs and the community and it damages communication between the devs and us. As JoeW said, in one ear and out the other. The more of this there is, the less we hear from Klei other than when they absolutely have to post.

 

If the devs are sensitive and narcissistic then yes, my continued criticisms (quite light, I may add if you were born before 2010) will create a "rift". But someone's got to say the quiet part out loud.

[Cloakingsumo198]

There is hardly anyone that is actually for the change there is plenty of threads addressing the change negatively or individuals coming into to confirm if their play experience changed for the worse.

This whole thread has devolved into something about manners, courtesy, and dev to player interactions. I guess everything has already been said.

48 minutes ago, hhh2 said:

It was under cooked so much, I didn't even eat it. But I didn't complain to the chef. He might have been having a bad night and didn't want to work, but had to.

Comparisons to the situation aside.

I feel like you should have atleast asked for a new plate if it was so undercooked you couldn't have eaten it at all. It's not like you would have wanted to disrespect the chef, anyone would feel "disrespect" if their work is criticized it's just you want to actually enjoy your meal. 

Speaking risks offending so I'm not saying to be openly hostile but confliction is rather "natural".

[Dunk Mujunk]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

Klei is making money though skins and game sales that they can support updating the game, they wouldn't update the game if they didn't earn money and weren't getting paid. There are enough people buying skins that they can support the dev team and they can keep updating the game at the current pace. 

Obviously, that's how business works. I'm unclear on the overall point of this bit.

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

Do you realize that you are getting manipulated? That is how companies get you to accept all the trash they add to games. Everyone was against these types of monetization at first but now you can see how mobile games and even a lot of the pc games are and you are grateful to the devs that just have 10-20% of what Diablo Immortal or any gacha game has and you are okay with it. 

Do you realize none of us are getting manipulated? It's the way things are now, we are getting forced. If just me alone voting with my dollars could solve the monetization issue it would have been over 20 years ago. I (like I'm assuming you did) grew up with expansion packs and models like that, Warcraft (not WoW), StarCraft, Diablo 2 (the original). I certainly prefer that over what we have now. Was it perfect? I don't know, but it seemed better than what we currently have. 

And I'm guessing the "yous" in the above bit are in general. Not gonna lie, I'd be a little sad if you viewed me as an absolute moron. Not being aggressive or sarcastic, I'd honestly be fairly hurt.

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

These companies that design P2W systems by hiring psychologists so that they can figure out the most addictive monetization systems to take advantage of people that don't have as much self control or have mental issues, its weird how so many people still keep playing and that is why nothing is changing for the better and just keeps getting worse.

I know, and I completely agree.

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

That's not something you owe to anyone, that's basic respect you should have for anyone you interact with.

Yet this thread, and the internet, exist.

I agree with you, and my terminology probably wasn't correct. I was just going with the words used before my post.

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

Constructive criticism without being rude is how people should interact with developers but there is nothing wrong with the playerbase as a whole expecting the game to be developed in a way that they can accept. It is true that all of us can't agree on every single change but there are changes that a big part of the playerbase leans on either liking or disliking.

Again, totally agree. I'd say my point is being lost, probably my fault, so I guess I'll boil it down-

Don't be a d*ck.

Not directed at you of course, and the thread seems to have calmed down a bit from what it began as, but yeah. You get out what you put in (general you).

There's nothing wrong with questioning or constructive criticism, but a sh*tty entitled attitude does nothing for anyone here.

 

[Duck986]

meanwhile Stardew Valley literally has a keyboard shortcut to activate animation cancelling, which is often used in regular gameplay by experienced players and is legal in some of the speedrun categories

[Yuuko]

7 hours ago, Dunk Mujunk said:

CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is how we make improvements. By all means, the state of DST should be discussed and debated. We are obviously the customers and yeah, Klei would prefer us to be happy. 

Anyone who wants to actually generate the best possible outcome as a business or person will not distinguish between "constructive criticism" and anything else b/c at the heart of *every* complaint is a reason.  That reason may or may not be important, and may or may not be your fault, but you lose out if you don't dive in and find out.  No matter how rude someone is, no matter how offensive they want to be, if you want to improve you should dive in and find out.  You should be grateful they're letting you know, even if they're being rude about it too b/c while SOME people give feedback many people just do this:

4 hours ago, hhh2 said:

Well, I was at this terrible, but expensive, restaurant last Wednesday. The food was awful. I had fish 'n chips, because I got the munchies for some comfort food, and fish 'n chips is as comfort as it comes. It was under cooked so much, I didn't even eat it. But I didn't complain to the chef. He might have been having a bad night and didn't want to work, but had to.

Remember there is a person on the other end of the line. That's all I'm saying.

That place did get a terrible yahoo eats review, however. Just no. NEVER again. And it was the worst sticky toffee pudding I've eaten, too!

This person thinks they're being nice by not complaining but the reality is this is the worst case scenario for any business.  A customer who has a bad experience, gives ZERO indication of a problem, and never. comes. back. again.  Where is the chance for improvement?  Perhaps that cook was having a bad night, and didn't want to work, perhaps their supplier has a quality issue, maybe the recipe timers are bad.  They might not know there is a problem, and without feedback may not realize they need to fix anything.

No feedback == the worst outcome for the business.  Every business should seek ALL feedback, even rude feedback so they can improve their model rather than permanently losing customers and have their reputation wrecked behind their backs.  Feelings be damned, if I'm doing something wrong tell me !!!

[. . .]

constructive criticism is not toxic, saying it's toxic is toxic behavior that needs to stop.

constructive criticism is the most valid form of criticism.

[Dunk Mujunk]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Anyone who wants to actually generate the best possible outcome as a business or person will not distinguish between "constructive criticism" and anything else b/c at the heart of *every* complaint is a reason.  That reason may or may not be important, and may or may not be your fault, but you lose out if you don't dive in and find out.  No matter how rude someone is, no matter how offensive they want to be, if you want to improve you should dive in and find out.  You should be grateful they're letting you know, even if they're being rude about it too b/c while SOME people give feedback many people just do this:

I'd be inclined to agree with bits and pieces of this. I'd say the difference here is the issue at hand is not an unknown. I'll also again say I'm not suggesting withholding feedback. I'd be willing to bet the devs saw this firestorm coming, being a video game forum. 

I highly doubt they made any changes just for the heck of it, I'm pretty sure I said this somewhere already. I'd imagine there is a reason for it, and even if there wasn't Klei as a company has always been pretty good about listening to the player base as far as I've known, maybe I've missed something?

Another difference here is that while you are free to cuss out the manager at Burger King because the kid in back put a tomato on your sandwich (and they should be grateful? Sorry that's pretty ridiculous), usage of this site does require you to follow the community guidelines, so we as a player base and community members are not simply absolved of any responsibility to not act like a bunch of rabid animals. Obviously Klei has the ability to enforce these rules as they please, and they've always been extremely lenient. Myself and others here have actually been breaking the rules all day as one of those rules is staying on topic, which I have certainly not done. I don't approve of OPs attitude, but I do regret not staying on topic, regardless of whether I think their tone is unjustified or not.

In regards to the topic at hand, I'm not saying I support the changes, I'm not saying just deal with the changes. I'm saying-

"hey, why not be a civilized human being about your concerns? Don't not give feedback, by all means make it known, but maybe be somewhat reasonable about it".

Obviously the devs made it know right off the bat in this thread that a nerve was hit, so be it. I'm honestly just taken aback at the mental gymnastics some here are performing to defend and justify the poor attitudes and exceedingly negative comments. I feel that just takes us down a road that forks off into either CoD level atmosphere here, zero interaction from the devs, or a combination of both. 

I don't know, the general vibe seems to be that I'm the crazy one I suppose.

 

[hhh2]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

This person thinks they're being nice by not complaining

May I just remind you that I eat everyday, and there is no need for me to complain on such an occasion. I worked in a kitchen briefly, and having to deal with customers was the worst part. I don't know how you misconstruded. My point was there are humans no different to you and I working at Klei, and reading needlessly mean comments ... You know, nothing gonnna change, so why bother

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Dunk Mujunk said:

I'd be inclined to agree with bits and pieces of this. I'd say the difference here is the issue at hand is not an unknown. I'll also again say I'm not suggesting withholding feedback. I'd be willing to bet the devs saw this firestorm coming, being a video game forum. 

I'm not sure that the issue was known, or that the devs foresaw a firestorm coming over it.  What I can say is that there was no announcement of "hey we're removing animation cancels."  Regardless, even if they did intend to remove animation cancels and want the current system to remain as is, it would still be good for us to provide our feedback.  That's the loop.  They can read our feedback and decide what they should do about it.

When Wendy and Wolfgang received their reworks the first plan Klei laid out was pretty bad for them, and with feedback from the players they adjusted them to something a lot more enjoyable all around.  A lot of that feedback was hostile, a lot of it wasn't, and there were players who liked / didn't have issue with their initial designs, but b/c Klei does read the forums, discord / etc they took the feedback an acted on it.  This is no different.

And hey - don't strawman me here - I'm not saying "go be rude," what I'm saying is that being rude is irrelevant if you actually want to improve.  If players come in here hot and dump their opinions, being rude doesn't invalidate their negative play experience.  I think the Klei devs know this which is why they don't ban or lock every thread the moment it gets hot.  Usually things get long winded here, with different perspectives posting passionately about what they want, or how they feel about the game.  Provided nothing gets nasty, that's what Klei benefits from the most.

1 hour ago, hhh2 said:

May I just remind you that I eat everyday, and there is no need for me to complain on such an occasion. I worked in a kitchen briefly, and having to deal with customers was the worst part. I don't know how you misconstruded. My point was there are humans no different to you and I working at Klei, and reading needlessly mean comments ... You know, nothing gonnna change, so why bother

That post isn't about you, or a reply to you - I just used your situation as an example.  You say you don't want to be rude by complaining, but as a business no feedback like that is far worse than rude feedback.  You might not have liked receiving that feedback, but its far worse when you just have an empty diner and have to shut down eh?  If everyone who played DST just quit playing when something went wrong instead of coming here to post about it (rude or not) I don't think DST would exist anymore.

[Dunk Mujunk]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

I'm not sure that the issue was known, or that the devs foresaw a firestorm coming over it.  

I obviously couldn't say one way or another whether the issue was known or whether Klei knew people would be unhappy, but at the same time come on. We're talking about a video game. Something like animation cancelling is a pretty big deal.

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

And hey - don't strawman me here 

being rude doesn't invalidate their negative play experience

it would still be good for us to provide our feedback

I'm guessing the strawman part was in reference to my bit here

3 hours ago, Dunk Mujunk said:

Another difference here is that while you are free to cuss out the manager at Burger King because the kid in back put a tomato on your sandwich (and they should be grateful? Sorry that's pretty ridiculous), 

I don't really feel like I twisted this bit below around to reach the above

5 hours ago, Shosuko said:

No matter how rude someone is, no matter how offensive they want to be, if you want to improve you should dive in and find out.  You should be grateful they're letting you know, even if they're being rude about it too 

Maybe you meant to word it differently, if so, apologies.

Also I could ask you to do the same. At no point did I say anyone's experience was invalidated, and I've clarified quite a few times now that obviously feedback and even criticism should be given. That is kinda what the site is for, however those are the points you want to keep coming back to when quoting me.

Again, I'm saying maybe don't be a d bag about it. That part is of course not in reference to you, but again I know you realize your bending over backwards to avoid acknowledging that yeah, it probably wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to not be a **ck. 

[Milordo]

8 hours ago, Shosuko said:

And hey - don't strawman me here - I'm not saying "go be rude," what I'm saying is that being rude is irrelevant if you actually want to improve.  If players come in here hot and dump their opinions, being rude doesn't invalidate their negative play experience.  I think the Klei devs know this which is why they don't ban or lock every thread the moment it gets hot.  

Maaaannn, I can't count anymore the number of circumstances that this happened in a lot of bad (even okay) videogames by companies or indie team on Steam forums, Reddit, Discord, ecc..... and it even happened a lot to me directly. It's depressing.

Klei is really a safe heaven. You guys should really appreciate how you're treated nice here.

[Catteflyterpill]

20 hours ago, Seero said:

If the devs are sensitive and narcissistic then yes, my continued criticisms (quite light, I may add if you were born before 2010) will create a "rift". But someone's got to say the quiet part out loud.

Just because being rude and horrible is a norm in the gaming community does not mean it's something we should let pass. Critiques can be perfectly valid, even if communicated poorly and brazenly. Don't try to camouflage entitlement and poor communication skills as bearing the burden of speaking for the masses. 

If the bug fix is something that really close to home I know it's frustrating to see those changes that just don't make sense. But the way you've been talking about the devs and justifying being a jerk on the forums is pretty sad to read. Nobody is being oversensitive, it's just basic social skills to be respectful to one another. And arguing in a discourteous manner only takes away from the argument and sets back the people that are really trying to get something changed. 

[Antynomity]

ok

[SmallBirdHungry]

Yes developers should change exactly what I want about this game because I am the only player and I am their sole source of income.

Y'know, devs.... I might be willing to buy a few DLCs if you were to..

1) Change wandas name to Albert because why not

2) Make wortox better on xbox and maybe call him Worbox

3) send me 73,040 spools

5) Add at least 3 more skins for WX (Please base them off other survivors I want The Wendy skin for WX)

N) Make a boat skin that looks like a lilypad so I can be frog

[Yuuko]

3 hours ago, SmallBirdHungry said:

N) Make a boat skin that looks like a lilypad so I can be frog

Klei please?

[gamehun20]

13 hours ago, SmallBirdHungry said:

I can be frog

*frog webber

[Hatyy]

This doesnt make the game any harder, just more annoying

[TheConfused]

I mean, I get it, it's disappointing when a helpful cheat or bug is patched out... But...

1. It's not the player's game, it's the creators, they have the authority to do whatever they want, it's theirs after all!

and...

2. This seems pretty minuscular.

:/