This is intended..

[Hornete]

4 minutes ago, nimzowitsch10 said:

I feel like there was a shift from content to reworks which may have come from a change in the development team

They promised us every character would get a rework years ago, and they are following up on that promise, there was no "shift" on that, they are quite literally following on a promise they made. One more and it's done for good.

I believe Joe mentioned even they were getting a bit tired of the reworks despite the promise, on a convo back in their Official Discord(Do not take this quote for quote, minds fuzzy on the details but I'm sure you could find the exact messages)

[nimzowitsch10]

@HorneteI was not aware, thank u for the info. I realize i'm probably being too critical of the devs because of my own frustrations with the game.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

50 minutes ago, nimzowitsch10 said:

@benfroyobro9381 lunar island and reap what you sow were before they got sold but I get what you mean. I just feel the game is getting stale with these updates in terms of content which we had a ton of during 2016-2020. After early 2021 (which is when they got sold) I feel like there was a shift from content to reworks which may have come from a change in the development team? Reworks are cool but 2 years of little content makes the game feel stale. Correlation doesn't equal causation though so yeah maybe the tencent deal didn't change anything in the development side of dst.

 

 

they were focused on polishing, reworking and adding qol changes to prepare the game for new content instead of adding some content in the middle of qol and refresh updates. Dont know if is a good or bad strategy but they said it, you are just making a big thing based on not knowing their path throw 2022

 

edit: i also wish they bring new content but we need a little of pattience and wait until they finish with wilson refresh and maybe another qol, later we can asume that most of the updates will be focused on adding new content to the game

and, apparently, part of the team was working on fixing DS single player so we can asume that having less people also affects how much they can bring so there is that too

[Dragonboooorn]

Imagine chopping, digging and fighting lmao

#Maxwell_Squad

 

wait wdym books and panflute are slower now??  

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Dragonboooorn said:

wait wdym books and panflute are slower now??  

im my tests i couldnt cancel wickers casting animation and i couldnt cancel pan flute animation as fast as before

they arent slower since their animation was always the same

[DVGMedia]

2 hours ago, Dragonboooorn said:

Imagine chopping, digging and fighting lmao

#Maxwell_Squad

 

wait wdym books and panflute are slower now??  

you have to wait at least 20 more frames before you are actionable.   These are the end frames wes is current while wilson is old
Sorry for low quality since its the only footage I got

[Mike23Ua]

Just remember that what is “Intended” doesn’t always translate into what is “fun”

And that brings me to my desperate plea to Klei-

I would sincerely like for the developers to truly fall in love with their own game, and I don’t just mean developing and designing things from a programmers point of view, I mean to actually spend the time playing your own game (without god mode or admin powers) Just to figure out first hand what sounded good on paper when it went into development, and then what is actually FUN to experience, play around with and Do.

I want these developers to play this game not just with Keyboard or a Mouse while looking at the world through program and Code, but also by just powering on their PS or Xbox picking up a controller and sitting down to enjoy their favorite game in their off time from work.

Do this so you can be like “wow the controls for this work great with KB+Mouse but on console it would feel much better if we change them to “*****”  as an example.

It “worries” me to say the least to watch these devs play the game using god mode, admin powers, or with little knowledge that eating a red cap is going to croak you over dead (sorry Peter your never gonna be able to live that one down ) I simply want them to stop designing content like they’re game developers- and to rather instead design it as if THEY were the fans just play around so you can be like… wait this isn’t as fun as I thought it would be, then step away from the developer view point and be like okay what can I do to change this and make it more fun?

Forget about what’s “intended” and focus on what actually makes the game “enjoyable” 

THAT is my one and only true plea to you guys, I’ve seen amazing things happen with games when developers started to love playing their own creation..

And this is by no means throwing shade on DST or the work you guys put into it it’s obviously already a Great product.. but when you PLAY it what would make it a great “Game?”

which would obviously involve needing to completely ignore what is “intended” and focus entirely on “what’s actually fun to play”

Thanks 

[Milordo]

10 hours ago, nimzowitsch10 said:

 when we were getting cool bosses like bee queen/fuelweaver

Bee Queen cool boss.

LOL

[Wonz]

On 1/25/2023 at 11:39 PM, DVGMedia said:

LIke gosh dang are you guys actually developers?

Now we'll never get the faster cancel, all thanks to you and your big mouth.

[Baark0]

changing the animations isnt technically a bad thing but id be really peeved off from playing the game after playing since 2018 and constantly cancelling these animations.

[goatt]

When the "bugged" fast speed has become the norm, it should be treated as norm, not as a bug.

"Fixing" the norm doesn't feel like an improvement to the game. But it's quite the opposite.

If it's really to be fixed, it should be fixed to the faster speed, not the slower one.

As a veteran, it makes my muscle memory ache and frustrated.

 

It's treated as a bug in the context of original game design.

 

But it's not a bug in the context that it's how people play the game now and it's never caused any issues after how many years? So so many years. Changing it now is not a bug fixing, more like a nerfing or balancing.

 

You can nerf it and give reasons why. But using "bug fix" as the reason to change this feels more like a lazy cover-up. Was it ever treated like a bug explicitly in the past? Someone who knows can tell me. Personally, I've never heard of it.

 

I only have one point, you can't call such fundamental aspect of the game "a bug" after shipping it out to players to play for so many years that I (or we) has learned and got used to, which hasn't caused any issues.

[gamehun20]

1 hour ago, goatt said:

When the "bugged" fast speed has become the norm, it should be treated as norm, not as a bug.

"Fixing" the norm doesn't feel like an improvement to the game. But it's quite the opposite.

If it's really to be fixed, it should be fixed to the faster speed, not the slower one.

As a veteran, it makes my muscle memory ache and frustrated.

With this mind set everything and anything in games could be looked as a norm which is not a good view. A bug is something that wasn't intended by the original design, chopping speed was always slow it was called holding the space bar the fast speed was caused by the sync between client and server being weird.

1 hour ago, goatt said:

t's treated as a bug in the context of original game design.

But it's not a bug in the context that it's how people play the game now and it's never caused any issues after how many years? So so many years. Changing it now is not a bug fixing, more like a nerfing or balancing.

Visual irregularities like z fighting, random disappearing or miss-aligning body sections didn't cause issues either yet they are fixed.

1 hour ago, goatt said:

You can nerf it and give reasons why. But using "bug fix" as the reason to change this feels more like a lazy cover-up. Was it ever treated like a bug explicitly in the past? Someone who knows can tell me. Personally, I've never heard of it.

It can't be called a nerf if it wasn't supposed to happen to begin with now thermal stones having durability can be called a nerf because they were made a bit annoying to use. It was a bug even in the past they just fixed it so they don't have to use work arounds to keep this "so good of a bug everyone has to complain about it for days on" this is the one thing i don't understand about this community ya'll treat the devs like they owe the planet to you, yet are unable to be patient and wait for things to be actually made functional and just keep pumping out these posts that will lead nowhere. The devs are busy people this is their game, their world to change and shape as they please just because you constantly complain fixes won't happen faster and calling them bad devs especially won't help

[Seero]

On 1/25/2023 at 5:53 PM, BezKa said:

Developers don't owe us anything. They make the game, they decide what is aligned with their vision, they decide what bugs get fixed and what gets changed.

 

Actually, we don't owe them anything. I don't know what you have to be smoking in order to think it's the opposite. But we spend our money on their game, we play their game, we have fun with their game. We don't need to do that. We want to do that. you and I give klei their undeserved time on this game just because we still have fun (which is shocking, in spite of their decisions) and we've played this game since it came out. 

Imagine if klei devs actually thought they owe us nothing. it would be pathetic.

On 1/25/2023 at 5:54 PM, JoeW said:

For what it's worth, statements like "LIke gosh dang are you guys actually developers?" are going to be what causes your comments to be taken "one ear and out the other". 
 

Oh grow up will you? There are multiple people who criticize this exact change and aren't rude about it.

[Dunk Mujunk]

59 minutes ago, Seero said:

But we spend our money on their game, we play their game, we have fun with their game. 

This is true. I spent, what, like $20 5 years ago for DS, all the additions, Shipwrecked, and DST (and some PS4 backgrounds). I purchased Hamlet separate of course, and while I don't play my wife has more than got our moneys worth from that as well.

59 minutes ago, Seero said:

Imagine if klei devs actually thought they owe us nothing. it would be pathetic.

It would be. I mean, what have they given us really? Continuous free content, the ability to weave skins and characters for free? Daily gifts, silly art contests where you post your kindergarten level drawings or lazily photoshopped pictures for free in game stuff?

59 minutes ago, Seero said:

Oh grow up will you? There are multiple people who criticize this exact change and aren't rude about it.

And plenty of them, including yourself are. The bit of JoeW you quoted for this line was in direct response to someone being rude, and it was right off the bat in this thread.

At this point I think Klei should check out the eveonline forums, pull the posting rules there (note that they are EXTREMELY liberal with their interpretations of the rules) and implement them here (I'm fairly positive I'd be getting my fair share of temporary bans if you guys did this). Switch over to separately paid season/battle pass required for anything other than offline play, make any save slots beyond the first one locked behind a paywall. Let that ride for a few months and maybe people will remember how bad things can be.

Seriously people, Klei isn't your court jester here for your personal amusement. They are people doing a job. I'd guess that a few people in this thread have never actually worked before, but if you have imagine how you would react if someone treated you this way at your job. Their entire career is your entertainment and your basically spiting in their face.

Edit: RIP dev interaction.

[dois raios]

3 hours ago, gamehun20 said:

It can't be called a nerf if it wasn't supposed to happen to begin with

No, it is not a nerf because it didnt make the books/pan flute less powerful.

Idk about others, but I didnt like it because of gameplay, lag and missclick. Now, for me, not being able to cancel something is not good in terms of gameplay and it is also a survival game, being trapped for a few seconds mean your death (I died so many times playing maxwell because of this lol)

So, I played some hours and I am already used to the new way things work in the game, I guess everyone will get used to it too, it is just annoying, it is not a nerf.

From this point, it is just a vent:

I changed my mind fast, it is bad that those things that makes gameplay a little bit boring happens, but we have to deal with it, and after reading the comments, even if klei had plans to actually make pan flute/books works as normal again (I say normal because they worked in this way since they were implemented in the game), they wont fix it anymore, the last thing you do is incentive the behavior of "writing posts offendind the devs will solve our problems", if they fix it, it will be when the dust settles (if it will be ever changed again).

Finally, if this is the way game follows, it is actually good, klei is showing us that they wont be imprisioned by past mistakes/missteps/missdecisions, if something they made long time ago and they want it to change, they will. Personally I see this as a good thing. Imagine how many "bad" items could actually become useful if klei change them with the premise "it was not intended to work in this way".

[Seero]

49 minutes ago, Dunk Mujunk said:

It would be. I mean, what have they given us really? Continuous free content, the ability to weave skins and characters for free? Daily gifts, silly art contests where you post your kindergarten level drawings or lazily photoshopped pictures for free in game stuff?

1 hour ago, Seero said:

all of it are like Band-Aids on a hot air-balloon with holes. Maybe they should stop burning money constantly and make a sustainable business model

51 minutes ago, Dunk Mujunk said:

Seriously people, Klei isn't your court jester here for your personal amusement. They are people doing a job. I'd guess that a few people in this thread have never actually worked before, but if you have imagine how you would react if someone treated you this way at your job. Their entire career is your entertainment and your basically spiting in their face.

 

Lol, lmao even, if I did such a bad job I would deserve a bit worse than being sent angry messages, doesn't matter if I like it or not, tough ****. 

[Dunk Mujunk]

3 minutes ago, Seero said:

all of it are like Band-Aids on a hot air-balloon with holes. Maybe they should stop burning money constantly and make a sustainable business model

Don't Starve came out in 2013. Everything else was given to the player base for free. It's 2023, they've constantly added to the game. For free. Seems pretty sustainable to me.

But as I said previously, maybe they do need to start charging for access to the game. It seems like it wouldn't hurt to filter out some of the player base by the looks of this thread.

8 minutes ago, Seero said:

Lol, lmao even, if I did such a bad job I would deserve a bit worse than being sent angry messages, doesn't matter if I like it or not, tough ****. 

It seems like it wouldn't hurt to filter out some of the player base by the looks of this thread.

[goatt]

4 hours ago, gamehun20 said:

With this mind set everything and anything in games could be looked as a norm

Please don't over-generalize things. You can find reasons to criticize "it has been the norm" which I think was a fact. But don't attack me for "norm"-lize things. Because I didnt. It just happened. It was not because of any kind of mind set. The game fed it to me, so I learned it and I grew muscle memories. And apparently, I'm not the only one who have adapt to that as a veteran..

 

You whole point is that it is a bug, so it should be treated like a bug. You are talking like a developer with some sort of task management in your team or whatever.

 

I'm a player, I have played the game for so many *curse word* years, like I don't even know how many. Nearly a decade? I don't see code. I only see a fun game. When bug happens, I would notice it for obvious reasons. But that bug has never been treated like a bug by players. It was even possible to create a mod around it, namely, "action queue".

 

I'm not denying it's a bug in dev log. But since players have get used to it, the game should fix it towards the norm, not what was intended originally. Because the original plan never happened in the last decade? It should fix up to players muscle memories so that its fans don't feel odd and complain about such fundamental things.

 

And don't apply "mind set" to other aspect of the game and make it look improper, because the "mind set" is never intended for those aspects. It's not the "mind set"'s fault, it's the application that caused problem.

[DVGMedia]

For entertainment you have 2 options of building your business.
Create for new players or create for the players you have now.
Both can work and klei has done it for many of their games.
Like darkest dungeon and heck even single player don't starve.
Alot of these games have their audiences.

Dst Is klei making stuff for a more generalized audience.  To please the masses vs the niche.
Thats kind of what the whales think at least. Some of the players that have been with the game since its inception.
It would be nice if klei would throw us a bone time to time. But that hasn't really happened as of late.

IM chill about the whole concept of this thread.  Its important to put up concerns  and the forums is where klei specifically mentioned on where to talk about problems.

Some people will be aggro sometimes and that is just part of the business. Klei is part of the service industry they provide a service of entertainment.
So they have to follow the basic rules of providing a service.
 

[Mike23Ua]

35 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

For entertainment you have 2 options of building your business.
Create for new players or create for the players you have now.
Both can work and klei has done it for many of their games.
Like darkest dungeon and heck even single player don't starve.
Alot of these games have their audiences.

Dst Is klei making stuff for a more generalized audience.  To please the masses vs the niche.
Thats kind of what the whales think at least. Some of the players that have been with the game since its inception.
It would be nice if klei would throw us a bone time to time. But that hasn't really happened as of late.

IM chill about the whole concept of this thread.  Its important to put up concerns  and the forums is where klei specifically mentioned on where to talk about problems.

Some people will be aggro sometimes and that is just part of the business. Klei is part of the service industry they provide a service of entertainment.
So they have to follow the basic rules of providing a service.
 

Uhh friend-

And

That’s a game released back in like 2013 that’s getting a lot of tweaks, bug fixes & controversial changes.. this week. (and a lot of people aren’t happy about it) 

So who are Klei making these changes for? veterans or the new players?

A lot of changes we all pretty much accepted as being core gameplay features no longer work as core gameplay features-

Such as placing deployable structures inside a slanty shanty for hamlet, or putting Bundle wrapped items into a Teleportato to carry more than the 4 item slots allowed.

I’m thrilled that Klei is fixing up bugs and tuning DSA, but they’re also changing things after 9 years we all thought was how the game was intended to play.

So now with DST.. we’ve barely even dipped our toes into the shallow end of the pool.

[DVGMedia]

 

18 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

So now with DST.. we’ve barely even dipped our toes into the shallow end of the pool.

Yeah kind of said it in irony but before that it did kind of fit into what I was saying lol

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 hours ago, goatt said:

When the "bugged" fast speed has become the norm, it should be treated as norm, not as a bug.

"Fixing" the norm doesn't feel like an improvement to the game. But it's quite the opposite.

If it's really to be fixed, it should be fixed to the faster speed, not the slower one

you are assuming that klei directly fixed the "exploit" to fast work when it might simply a side effect of changing how the connection works...

[Milordo]

7 hours ago, goatt said:

When the "bugged" fast speed has become the norm, it should be treated as norm, not as a bug.

"Fixing" the norm doesn't feel like an improvement to the game. But it's quite the opposite.

If it's really to be fixed, it should be fixed to the faster speed, not the slower one.

As a veteran, it makes my muscle memory ache and frustrated.

 

It's treated as a bug in the context of original game design.

 

But it's not a bug in the context that it's how people play the game now and it's never caused any issues after how many years? So so many years. Changing it now is not a bug fixing, more like a nerfing or balancing.

 

You can nerf it and give reasons why. But using "bug fix" as the reason to change this feels more like a lazy cover-up. Was it ever treated like a bug explicitly in the past? Someone who knows can tell me. Personally, I've never heard of it.

 

I only have one point, you can't call such fundamental aspect of the game "a bug" after shipping it out to players to play for so many years that I (or we) has learned and got used to, which hasn't caused any issues.

I literally never used this """bug"""" in all my giant years and always played the game """intentionally""" with his pace. I get it that a portion of the community may used this tactic for a while but I don't think it reflects all the comunnity or people who have played Dst. (Btw, just wanted to spent my 2 cents on the discussion, I agree your message  )

6 hours ago, gamehun20 said:

With this mind set everything and anything in games could be looked as a norm which is not a good view. A bug is something that wasn't intended by the original design, chopping speed was always slow it was called holding the space bar the fast speed was caused by the sync between client and server being weird.

This, this, very much this. I really never cared or payed attention and continued to play with just the space bar to today

[Yuuko]

13 hours ago, Dunk Mujunk said:

This is true. I spent, what, like $20 5 years ago for DS, all the additions, Shipwrecked, and DST (and some PS4 backgrounds). I purchased Hamlet separate of course, and while I don't play my wife has more than got our moneys worth from that as well.

It would be. I mean, what have they given us really? Continuous free content, 

Strawman vs strawman...  Gee, I wonder who will "win the internet" on this one lol

fr here - The devs don't really make "continuous free content."  Its not their love of us or the game that they continue adding to DST, its their monetization model.  If they continue bringing us back into the game, and giving us cool skins we can buy then we continue paying for the game over and over again.  Sure SOME might not, YOU might not, but if MOST didn't pay for it DST would be shuttered by now.  The content isn't "free" because they are kind, its free b/c their monetization for DST is the f2p + microtransactions model (sure DST isn't actually ftp, but that's the model.  The 10 bucks or whatever you originally paid for the game is NOT why we're getting new features now lol)

They don't "owe" us anything, and we don't "owe" them anything, but if what they sell and what we're willing to buy don't line up neither of us win.  That's just sales 101 - the best relationship any company can have is providing a product that its customer's are happy to continue paying for.

Criticism is how we make improvements.

I've mostly stayed out of this conversation.  Partly b/c I know that whatever they did - its done.  Whatever they might do next is probably being discussed.  They won't roll it back, they shouldn't roll it back.  A bug is a bug, whether its new or old, whether its a boon to the playerbase or a bane.  Bugs getting fixed is good for the game.  That doesn't mean what was once a bug can't become a feature.  They might discuss how they want to purposefully implement animation cancelling, but they aren't just going to roll back a genuine bug fix.  Getting hot on Klei over this won't help anyone.  Make our opinions known?  Yes.  Flame the devs b/c they fixed some bugs?  No.

Personally I think both animation commitment AND animation cancelling are nice features and have their place in the game.  Much like fighting games where animation cancelling is key to combos, a prominent feature of ANY fighting game at this point - but they also have moves that aren't able to be cancelled that hold you to the risk you choose to take.

Whether chopping speed is fast or slow is honestly irrelevant to me, we can still drag Deerclops or Bearger through a forest to amass piles of logs.  Beaver form, honey spice, wolfgang and maxwell all can still clear much faster than a normal player.  If you want to chop fast, choose accordingly.  Just like I choose Wolfgang or Wanda when I want some high dps.

The attack rate is the only part I'm really concerned about, and mostly b/c the game is already a bit wonky when you can't attack something before it moves out of range.  I think a mod / feature attack button that had your character approach slightly closer to the mob than your attack range before actually swinging would be nice.  Manually walking closer than attack range is difficult b/c mobs have a simple "move away from you" ai that will always perfectly veer them away from your path.  (now that I think about it push mod might work for this since it moves you towards the center of the target mob so they wouldn't change directions, eh maybe problem solved for me - gonna try that - sucks console can't use mods lol)

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

That’s a game released back in like 2013 that’s getting a lot of tweaks, bug fixes & controversial changes.. this week. (and a lot of people aren’t happy about it) 

So who are Klei making these changes for? veterans or the new players?

A lot of changes we all pretty much accepted as being core gameplay features no longer work as core gameplay features-

Such as placing deployable structures inside a slanty shanty for hamlet, or putting Bundle wrapped items into a Teleportato to carry more than the 4 item slots allowed.

I’m thrilled that Klei is fixing up bugs and tuning DSA, but they’re also changing things after 9 years we all thought was how the game was intended to play.

So now with DST.. we’ve barely even dipped our toes into the shallow end of the pool.

I was really confused when I saw that post...  like... why?  I wonder if there is any reason, like are they going to push the singe player DS games again?  Are they porting these to other console or something?  I haven't followed DS in years (since DST came out,) so I'm not really sure what the state is...  I don't see how changing a game seen as "complete" is a good idea though :\ 

[Guille6785]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Bugs getting fixed is good for the game.

why