[Game Update] - 530195

[edulopes]

5 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

dont use it if you dont like it, you have other options

max can reach similar dps in some fights (like that BQ fight posted before were max didnt even fight), has way safer hp, extra linked inventory, unique harvest perks, crowd control...

also that one character might be op doesnt mean that every other character should be op. Again, if you want to make the game a joke you have plenty of mods for that, others like the difficulty isntead of free wins like in chinesse/korean arpgs....

better i dont argue anymore, you cant open your eyes because this maxwell isnt near any OP state, i will stop talking for now because soon i can lose my composture, wanda is an free win already, wolfgang too, he isnt safer, The CC is an good part but just that is itm his DPS cant match and thats an point but i stablished well my point already just read the other things i said above

https://www.twitch.tv/thalz just watch.

 

testing in real time...

[Harambe]

You guys are cracked for working this hard. Respect!

A quality of life tweak would be to make the nightmare amulet chargeable like the others, maybe. Just for early game nightmare farm alternative.

[edulopes]

https://clips.twitch.tv/TalentedPiliableSowHoneyBadger-AyEngYAL_EM6N2JL

 

totaly impractical

[Mike23Ua]

Guys.. if I may break the rules a little bit I really don’t get what all the complaining is about. Like seriously?? Don’t you have anything better to do? I don’t say this in a mean way I’m being very polite, I just.. I legit don’t understand where all the complaints stem from.

Rather something is or isn’t OP shouldn’t be up to any of us forum goers to decide, only the games actual developers know the full extent of how something should/shouldn’t be performing.

I am a WENDY Main, people cry Wendy is Op all the time.. But if you want my personal Opinion that’s less of a problem with Wendy and more of a problem with lack of proper difficulty settings and options: Case in point, if I wanted to.. I can toggle a setting so that enemy mobs now deal 33% less damage when attacking me. 

Maybe I would enjoy the challenge of choosing if eating food can heal me or if I can only heal by using dedicated healing tab items, or maybe I want to spawn into the world with 75 Hp without needing to pick Maxwell to play as.

Sure.. I can buy a Pc and download some mods for it, but shouldn’t the world Gen settings, world configuration options do that for me?

Without getting too far off topic: People seem to complain about a character being “too op” because the rest of the game hasn’t caught up. 

Klei has only been updating character abilities, with the only exceptions being maybe the redesigned Ancient Guardian fight. 

Maybe the problem has NEVER been how OP the character is/isn’t, maybe the problem has always been lack of options, New game + mode, etc..

And as I stated earlier: Only Klei knows the full extent of rather or not something is working as intended or needs further balancing.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

16 minutes ago, edulopes said:

better i dont argue anymore, you cant open your eyes because this maxwell isnt near any OP state, i will stop talking for now because soon i can lose my composture, wanda is an free win already, wolfgang too, he isnt safer, The CC is an good part but just that is itm his DPS cant match and thats an point but i stablished well my point already just read the other things i said above

https://www.twitch.tv/thalz just watch.

 

testing in real time...

never said that max is op right now but ok

3 minutes ago, edulopes said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/TalentedPiliableSowHoneyBadger-AyEngYAL_EM6N2JL

 

totaly impractical

skill issue

[edulopes]

33 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

there is no meta, just methods that require more or less set up and are more or less fun depeding of player preferences

maxwell lorewise is an useless egocentric that would be death by day one if wasnt because wilson helped him survive

some people dont want free wins but making an effort to win the game. For Op characters we already have a lot of furrys in the workshop

 

but seemed like you said he was OP yesterday

and yesterday he was on spot that had some problems, now he just lackluster

[Jakepeng99]

I don't really like the large damage nerfs to the puppets, i would like teir 2 to be changed back to 60-90 damage, and teir 3 and 4 be extra late game upgrades, their strong damage made Maxwell a fun Glass Cannon. If anything, add a little more glass to the cannon if you were to nerf him. I still like the idea of teirs for character progression.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Jakepeng99

[JazzyGames]

It seems to me that you might be looking at this whole progression like the top tier is supposed to be the only viable option. I just shredded Crab King in 2:40 with a mid-tier setup and five duelists (faster, I might note than before this hotfix when the duelists' attack rate was much less consistent). The top tier items are not going to be viable in the majority of fights in which Maxwell is directly participating, and that seems fine especially considering their new attack rate. I didn't quite catch the context of that Thalz clip but I'm assuming it has to do with wearing a bone helm while trying to attack another target. Working as intended as far as I'm concerned. If you accidentally hit a shadow creature, just unequip the helm, wait for them to despawn, and put it back on.

Maxwell's duelists are stronger than they've ever been, so let's talk more about how the tiered shadow gear can be improved upon.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, JazzyGames said:

I didn't quite catch the context of that Thalz clip but I'm assuming it has to do with wearing a bone helm while trying to attack another target.

exactly, isnt max fault that someone using the bone helm isnt using their mouse to make sure to hit the wished enemy

other topic would be if bonehelm should work like that

for me is interesting to have a "distand mage" set of items and others to help the minions in combat plus different items ddepending of the day count and experience of the player

simple deepness is fun

[CyberSkink]

3 minutes ago, JazzyGames said:

It seems to me that you might be looking at this whole progression like the top tier is supposed to be the only viable option. I just shredded Crab King in 2:40 with a mid-tier setup and five duelists (faster, I might note than before this hotfix when the duelists' attack rate was much less consistent). The top tier items are not going to be viable in the majority of fights in which Maxwell is directly participating, and that seems fine especially considering their new attack rate. I didn't quite catch the context of that Thalz clip but I'm assuming it has to do with wearing a bone helm while trying to attack another target. Working as intended as far as I'm concerned. If you accidentally hit a shadow creature, just unequip the helm, wait for them to despawn, and put it back on.

Maxwell's duelists are stronger than they've ever been, so let's talk more about how the tiered shadow gear can be improved upon.

Well said! Btw, I’m a fan of yours! LOVED your Warly play through. I personally would like the top tier to be buffed at least a little bit, this is because I feel that fuelweaver gear should be an endgame thing and the effects should reflect that, however I would love to know your thoughts.

[edulopes]

8 minutes ago, JazzyGames said:

he top tier items are not going to be viable in the majority of fights in which Maxwell is directly participating

strange that playing well punishes you

 

9 minutes ago, JazzyGames said:

I didn't quite catch the context of that Thalz clip but I'm assuming it has to do with wearing a bone helm while trying to attack another target. Working as intended as far as I'm concerned. If you accidentally hit a shadow creature, just unequip the helm, wait for them to despawn, and put it back on.

it makes impratical figthin in a group of friends, or even solo.
people that isnt even seeing the creatures can and will attack the bone helm spawned shadow creatures, now maxwell just is an nuisance now

[JazzyGames]

5 minutes ago, TitanicTigrex said:

Well said! Btw, I’m a fan of yours! LOVED your Warly play through. I personally would like the top tier to be buffed at least a little bit, this is because I feel that fuelweaver gear should be an endgame thing and the effects should reflect that, however I would love to know your thoughts.

Yeah I agree. It would be awesome if the ruins gear, shadow manip gear, and FW gear all got separate tiers.

[Mysterious box]

46 minutes ago, xhyom said:

They both has restrictions, but Wurt as plenty other benefits other than an army, and that's the point, he has almost no other benefit that isn't related to his summons so why is his army harder to manage if the army is just... his thing? I'm not advocating to buff his shadow damage to 300 I just don't think he deserves being handcuffed by the amount of micromanagment. I'm against a character that has 75 hp being concerned all the time what kind of hat he is wearing at the same time he has to time his casts, summon his minions and participate in the fight.

What Maxwell's prison, Maxwell's shadow sneak which is a aoe panic you trap you can set multiple of, Maxwell's synergy with night armor and the dark sword to have no constant sanity drain, and the fact he carries chest bigger than normal chests in his pocket/headslot are you really trying to say Wurt's season resistance after the first year and strong grip compare to that because I find that really really hard to believe.

[JazzyGames]

1 minute ago, edulopes said:

it makes impratical figthin in a group of friends, or even solo.
people that isnt even seeing the creatures can and will attack the bone helm spawned shadow creatures, now maxwell just is an nuisance now

Hadn't thought of it before you mentioned it, but is it possible that that was done for balance purposes? I mean Maxwell already has two spells that will absolutely break the majority of boss fights with other players. He doesn't really need maxed out shadow duelists in multiplayer because the DPS will come from other players. In solo play though there will definitely be a handful of fights where Max can safely wear all of the AFW gear and cast snares safely from a distance.

[edulopes]

14 minutes ago, JazzyGames said:

Maxwell's duelists are stronger than they've ever been, so let's talk more about how the tiered shadow gear can be improved upon.

they're worse than yesterday, worse than the form before this one
his clones are just better than pre rework maxwell duellists that were terrible

i normally totatlly agree with you but he needs buffs this time, at least clones that tank as much as the first duellist rework

4 minutes ago, JazzyGames said:

Yeah I agree. It would be awesome if the ruins gear, shadow manip gear, and FW gear all got separate tiers.

it isnt just viable to kill fuel weaver just to have an helmet worse than football helmet, and no weapon on hand;

[GodIess]

And can do so?
- Bone equipment makes it possible not to take damage once in a while
- Shadow Thurible increases the number of summoned duelists to 8 while equipped (if removed, the last two will die)
- Top hat increases running and attack speed
- shadow sword increases damage
- shadow armor increases the amount of hp
remove amulets from this list

Edited November 8, 2022 by GodIess

[edulopes]

1 minute ago, JazzyGames said:

Hadn't thought of it before you mentioned it, but is it possible that that was done for balance purposes? I mean Maxwell already has two spells that will absolutely break the majority of boss fights with other players. He doesn't really need maxed out shadow duelists in multiplayer because the DPS will come from other players. In solo play though there will definitely be a handful of fights where Max can safely wear all of the AFW gear and cast snares safely from a distance.

that is a thing that i dont know, those spells are strong, but the totally broken part is all wanda's range fault, on MP from my testing is just viable figthing using sword+ nigtharmor+ tophat

but i dont think it would be that op and nerfed for ballancing reasons, in the end you can use 6 wandas or 6 wofgangs with warly spice and melt bosses

[hhh2]

This probably needs to be reverted. I liked him the version before this one.

[edulopes]

there is 4 ways for me,

-reverting the changes
-making every single shadow equipment equal to each other
-making crucible an weapon
-Making shadow duellists as tank or far more tank as the first change on them

 

crucible being an weapon just like wanda's but just for maxwell

not even entering how costly is an bone helm
and not even complaining about shadow servants refusing to work because they're too afraid of the shadow creatures making some farms terrible
i said all that on my post

[Gabovisk]

Sets should have bonus, the higher the level the higher the damage cap.

[dois raios]

After reading some posts here, i want to share my opinion.

I actually like current Maxwell (in beta), and I think it is extremely helpful everyone giving their own feedback about the character  

he is weaker if you compare to that update where duelists received capped 15 damage (i dont remember the number of the update), but I dont think klei nor devs are going to give that amount of power back, and it is ok, i dont know what is in mind of the devs, I think there is a reason for other characters cant be powerful, but even Maxwell not being the most powerful character in the beta, he is more strong now, and most importantly, he is fun, I want to play with him more now.

And klei somehow tried to give some power to maxwell after nerfing it, now duelists can deal more damage if you are using an specific equipment (bone helm, dark sword, etc), they deal more damage than before.

[Arcwell]

I think duelists are in a very good spot right now balance-wise.

Duelists from update 529972 were tanky to a point that was problematic. Six of them could solo AG without resummoning or Maxwell's involvement in combat at all. Remember you can resummon them, it's not like they have to live an entire fight. This was fixed in the next update.

Duelists from update 529998 had damage falloff when Maxwell moved even a short distance from the enemy, which was a problem given that you need room to cast spells and kite nightmare creatures. They also had insane DPS, but this seemed balanced with the damage falloff. Both of these were fixed in the current update.

My only problem with the current update is the shadow tiers are needlessly complex and contradictory at the higher levels. Shadow thurible and bone helm are usually suboptimal compared to the alternatives, making me question why they're there.

[edulopes]

1 minute ago, Arcwell said:

Duelists from update 529998 had damage falloff when Maxwell moved even a short distance from the enemy, which was a problem given that you need room to cast spells and kite nightmare creatures. They also had insane DPS, but this seemed balanced with the damage falloff. Both of these were fixed in the current update

better than today's shadow duellists, because o this

 

2 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

My only problem with the current update is the shadow tiers are needlessly complex and contradictory at the higher levels. Shadow thurible and bone helm are usually suboptimal compared to the alternatives, making me question why they're there.

now they dont tank, dont do an decent damage, at this point is better play other caracter comparing to its former self on last update

6 minutes ago, dois raios said:

After reading some posts here, i want to share my opinion.

I actually like current Maxwell (in beta), and I think it is extremely helpful everyone giving their own feedback about the character  

he is weaker if you compare to that update where duelists received capped 15 damage (i dont remember the number of the update), but I dont think klei nor devs are going to give that amount of power back, and it is ok, i dont know what is in mind of the devs, I think there is a reason for other characters cant be powerful, but even Maxwell not being the most powerful character in the beta, he is more strong now, and most importantly, he is fun, I want to play with him more now.

And klei somehow tried to give some power to maxwell after nerfing it, now duelists can deal more damage if you are using an specific equipment (bone helm, dark sword, etc), they deal more damage than before.

20 if i am correct

 

5 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

I think duelists are in a very good spot right now balance-wise.

.

his gameplay was made to be too exaustive, you have to do much to have less  bonus than using wolfgang or wanda or wigfrid, not even couting warly food

[Arcwell]

1 minute ago, edulopes said:

now they dont tank, dont do an decent damage, at this point is better play other caracter comparing to its former self on last update

They tank well enough to be effective and still have very strong DPS:

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

My only problem with the current update is the shadow tiers are needlessly complex and contradictory at the higher levels. Shadow thurible and bone helm are usually suboptimal compared to the alternatives, making me question why they're there.

It's because they're the highest tier shadow gear for their slots and people said that he should have more of a caster playstyle and they wanted more options than just the nightmare set so they made a compromise you either use the thurible as a caster or a dark sword as a fighter it makes more sense than it initially seems but I do think people who use the thurible and bone helm will likely use a beefalo.