[Game Update] - 530195

[edulopes]

7 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Seeing this a lot so I feel it's worth mentioning:

Duelists are specialized for boss-killing, not mobbing. They might be worse than Abby against spiders but they're leagues better than the rest against the likes of Deerclops, Dragonfly, and Celestial Champion. If you compare duelists to other minions solely on their mobbing potential, they will seem worse.

 

merms are better, abby increaces damage for all players (both for bosses
bernie is worse for bosses
wicker bees are really usable as fodder against bosses
winonas catapults are better for everything
 

2 minutes ago, SullyD said:

Winona's Catapult

1 trusty tape, 15 rocks, 3 twigs to build one.
damage = 42.5 (1.25 AoE radius) 

42.5*18 = 765

BALANCED !!! XD

i did forget about that part thanks, i am having so much to think to argument with some people that catapults sliped from my mind

[Arthas Durotan]

Honestly, mobs focusing on Maxwell should be dropped. It just makes the fights unnecessarily cumbersome and hell of an annoyance. 

You are already busy with nightmare creatures even if you use 5 fighters. Now you have to deal with boss/mobs, nc and finding a breather to heal, cast spells, build light or fight back.

 

Fighters are bad against groups because everything aggro on you. Scare trap or pillars doesn't work well because NC starts attacking as well.

Bad against bosses because it's going to chase you and you are going to lose sanity either casting spells or because of insanity aura and NC will start attacking. Making even the most easy fights even more difficult.

Imo either Maxwell aggro should be removed or fighters needs to come with taunt aura.

[mr.wilson.BR]

18 minutes ago, edulopes said:

I also really like this idea and would further encourage fighting alongside his minions (although even as of now the extra dps is good enough imo that if it didn't change i wouldn't mind)

the problem now is the best DPS is locked behind not figthing
MEANWILE WANDA , WOLF And wig hold F and goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Dude chill, this isn't exactly a competition and they don't need to have comparable dps *because they don't need to* it's just part of his arsenal now and he gets more benefit if he chooses to fight with his minions even though it's not necessary (like think about it they're nearly free fighters that you can just resummon if you don't wish to engage yourself, eventually they either end up killing their target or at least take a good chunk of their hp away so you can finish it yourself)

Maxwell now also has minions that are essentially free and can be made on the fly without having to keep tools to craft them, not only it's convenient since if you really wanted to you can completely abandon tools just because of this but they also help you collect stuff if they aren't doing anything else, there's also the shadow storage which is a personal favorite of mine, either free 12 inventory slots if you're solo or a shared inventory with other maxwells or anyone if you make the magician's box (it makes item trading from very far away really convenient and comes in handy very often

So like i said before i believe the character is fine, in the very least he's a lot more interesting to play than he was before 

[z3rox12]

9 hours ago, V2C said:

• Increased range and improved Shadow Duelist attack speed scaling checks for whether Maxwell is nearby and in combat.
• Greatly increased range for Shadow Duelist damage scaling based on Maxwell’s equipped items.

Can't we just delete this mechanic, it kind of sucks. Rather buff/encourage/reward aggresive players to attack by giving Maxwell a damage boost within the lines of: "when a duelist attacks a creature leaves a mark that detonates when a player attacks said creature dealing extra damage and/or healing".

Also the summoning animation is way too long and would be great if we could cancel the cast.

[edulopes]

4 minutes ago, mr.wilson.BR said:

Dude chill, this isn't exactly a competition and they don't need to have comparable dps *because they don't need to* it's just part of his arsenal now and he gets more benefit if he chooses to fight with his minions even though it's not necessary (like think about it they're nearly free fighters that you can just resummon if you don't wish to engage yourself, eventually they either end up killing their target or at least take a good chunk of their hp away so you can finish it yourself)

Maxwell now also has minions that are essentially free and can be made on the fly without having to keep tools to craft them, not only it's convenient since if you really wanted to you can completely abandon tools just because of this but they also help you collect stuff if they aren't doing anything else, there's also the shadow storage which is a personal favorite of mine, either free 12 inventory slots if you're solo or a shared inventory with other maxwells or anyone if you make the magician's box (it makes item trading from very far away really convenient and comes in handy very often

So like i said before i believe the character is fine, in the very least he's a lot more interesting to play than he was before 

IF it is not an competition, just read the topics of many people, most peopole want to compare and do him worse than them and worse than before rework, i am tarnished after this update, his image is destroyed, i waited more than 10 years to see everything crumble

 

personal favorite of mine, either free 12 inventory slots if you're solo or a shared inventory with other maxwells or anyone if you make the magician's box (it makes item trading from very far away really convenient and comes in handy very often
for me it could be made for any caracter that would have the same power, heck give root chest for wormwood i would use it as maxwell the same, i dont think talking about his shared inverntory is just because you dont need maxwell to use it

Edited November 8, 2022 by edulopes

[Wenhelxing]

If klei is looking at this post, just remember that you guys created the lore and character of william carter, and you've given us the anticipation of a great rework that revives the former shadow king. Keep to that summoner origin as you continue fixing him, and I've made many replies on other posts as well regarding how to improve him

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 minutes ago, SullyD said:

Winona's Catapult

1 trusty tape, 15 rocks, 3 twigs to build one.
damage = 42.5 (1.25 AoE radius) 

42.5*18 = 765

BALANCED !!! XD

18 catapults = 18 trusty tapes(18 silk+54 grass), 270 rocks(6.75 stacks), 54 twigs + 2 GEMerator (2 tapes, 4 boards, doodads and gems everytime you want to use them). They can be destroyed, are stationary and is the only useful perk she has along with crafting faster

maxwell, which can gather pretty much every basic resource faster and has crowd controll spells, can summon 6 duelist for a little more than a single piece of NF

totally a fair comparison

[edulopes]

6 minutes ago, mr.wilson.BR said:

Dude chill, this isn't exactly a competition and they don't need to have comparable dps *because they don't need to* it's just part of his arsenal now and he gets more benefit if he chooses to fight with his minions even though it's not necessary (like think about it they're nearly free fighters that you can just resummon if you don't wish to engage yourself, eventually they either end up killing their target or at least take a good chunk of their hp away so you can finish it yourself)

Maxwell now also has minions that are essentially free and can be made on the fly without having to keep tools to craft them, not only it's convenient since if you really wanted to you can completely abandon tools just because of this but they also help you collect stuff if they aren't doing anything else, there's also the shadow storage which is a personal favorite of mine, either free 12 inventory slots if you're solo or a shared inventory with other maxwells or anyone if you make the magician's box (it makes item trading from very far away really convenient and comes in handy very often

So like i said before i believe the character is fine, in the very least he's a lot more interesting to play than he was before 

and his clones arent forever, so you waste more fuel in the spot than before, making them worse in regard of fly, it is not convinient is just worse all around

making the king of shadows become an mere farmer, that's bad for his image on it's own

[ArubaroBeefalo]

12 minutes ago, Arthas Durotan said:

Honestly, mobs focusing on Maxwell should be dropped. It just makes the fights unnecessarily cumbersome and hell of an annoyance. 

You are already busy with nightmare creatures even if you use 5 fighters. Now you have to deal with boss/mobs, nc and finding a breather to heal, cast spells, build light or fight back.

 

Fighters are bad against groups because everything aggro on you. Scare trap or pillars doesn't work well because NC starts attacking as well.

Bad against bosses because it's going to chase you and you are going to lose sanity either casting spells or because of insanity aura and NC will start attacking. Making even the most easy fights even more difficult.

Imo either Maxwell aggro should be removed or fighters needs to come with taunt aura.

the cage and snare helps with that

imo maxwell is becoming a very interesting character that needs practise which is a rare thing in this game with holding F wolfgangs and wigfrids, fire farms, etc

[edulopes]

let this role for woodie or wurt

now that maxwell farming is nerfed from pre rework, his figth clones arent worth it the net loss in gather pottential, personally i will rewind my world to pre beta, until next hotfix

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the cage and snare helps with that

imo maxwell is becoming a very interesting character that needs practise which is a rare thing in this game with holding F wolfgangs and wigfrids, fire farms, etc

the problem is he is more risk than reward, his risks arent worth the hasttle to figth with them, and you cant figth toguether to get maximum damage that is lame

and the stun that you get by using codex umbra is abnoxious

[Wenhelxing]

but the whole point shouldn't be making him a skill based character like wes, its supposed to make those playing him have a better time, while attracting more players to play as him. If you want to make him play like a summoner in the forge(juggle spells constantly while being attacked, then you are making it hard for regular gameplay. Dst is not dark souls

Edited November 8, 2022 by Wenhelxing

[SullyD]

8 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

18 catapults = 18 trusty tapes(18 silk+54 grass), 270 rocks(6.75 stacks), 54 twigs + 2 GEMerator (2 tapes, 4 boards, doodads and gems everytime you want to use them). They can be destroyed, are stationary and is the only useful perk she has along with crafting faster

maxwell, which can gather pretty much every basic resource faster and has crowd controll spells, can summon 6 duelist for a little more than a single piece of NF

totally a fair comparison

Wow really? you talk like you need end game item to build this things xD
You only need to build it once, 
it has a high range,
lasts forever, only needs a few gems

 765 DPS
What do you want to argue?

[Arthas Durotan]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the cage and snare helps with that

imo maxwell is becoming a very interesting character that needs practise which is a rare thing in this game with holding F wolfgangs and wigfrids, fire farms, etc

In theory, yes. 

But you are going to use magic mid fight, because pre cast snare is not going to hold them off. Now your sanity is low and NC starts attacking as well making the fight more difficult. 

Sure you are going to kill them all but 2 Minutes genocide became 5 minutes of running around casting spells to keep the horde at bay then kiting and killing NC.

Then comes Wilson smacking the little bugs and leaving while smirking (nice rework lol)

[Mysterious box]

15 minutes ago, edulopes said:

merms are better, abby increaces damage for all players (both for bosses
bernie is worse for bosses
wicker bees are really usable as fodder against bosses
winonas catapults are better for everything
 

i did forget about that part thanks, i am having so much to think to argument with some people that catapults sliped from my mind

I mean each of those has their niches much like duelists for example catapults can't move each follower type has it's advantages and disadvantages and part of Maxwell's is getting aid from cc abilities.

 

27 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Seeing this a lot so I feel it's worth mentioning:

Duelists are specialized for boss-killing, not mobbing. They might be worse than Abby against spiders but they're leagues better than the rest against the likes of Deerclops, Dragonfly, and Celestial Champion. If you compare duelists to other minions solely on their mobbing potential, they will seem worse.

 

agreed and even then his cc helps them make decently fast work of hordes.

 

39 minutes ago, SullyD said:

This is the weirdest thing I've ever seen in a co-op game, I have the impression that it is a lot of people who do not accept that other characters are good in comparison with others, it's like a competition, everyone should be happy with Maxwell, but no, many people want to nerf him, as if this game was an e-sport worth 1kk dol. wtf...

And they talk about balancing? ********, Abigail can solo 20+ lv3 spider nests, dozens and dozens, hundreds of mobs without even having to move or ''EnGaGe in the fight" but Maxwell can't do the same because he is "too OP" ha ha ha.

Outside shadow prison on specific bosses I feel like most people were fine with the last patch version of Maxwell and I don't particularly see the need to make him Wendy 2.0 though when he has other abilities to use as well. 

[SullyD]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Outside shadow prison on specific bosses I feel like most people were fine with the last patch version of Maxwell and I don't particularly see the need to make him Wendy 2.0 though when he has other abilities to use as well. 

People who have not opened the game and have not tested it and are not going to play Maxwell, the opinion of the Wendy mains seems very valid. Thx

[Wenhelxing]

sarcasm

[Mysterious box]

Just now, SullyD said:

People who have not opened the game and have not tested it and are not going to play Maxwell, the opinion of the Wendy mains seems very valid. Thx

Bias is a scary thing I'm not a Wendy main in fact I'm someone who was very vocal about Wendy's refresh being a bad direction and I've done tons of testing try not to debate this based on personal feelings.

[SullyD]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Bias is a scary thing I'm not a Wendy main in fact I'm someone who was very vocal about Wendy's refresh being a bad direction and I've done tons of testing try not to debate this based on personal feelings.

Oh, and now Maxwell needs to be equipping end game items, SUPER FUN, at this point I have already closed the game.

[mr.wilson.BR]

15 minutes ago, edulopes said:

IF it is not an competition, just read the topics of many people, most peopole want to compare and do him worse than them and worse than before rework, i am tarnished after this update, his image is destroyed, i waited more than 10 years to see everything crumble

 

personal favorite of mine, either free 12 inventory slots if you're solo or a shared inventory with other maxwells or anyone if you make the magician's box (it makes item trading from very far away really convenient and comes in handy very often
for me it could be made for any caracter that would have the same power, heck give root chest for wormwood i would use it as maxwell the same, i dont think talking about his shared inverntory is just because you dont need maxwell to use it

Some people of the community does seem to make it a competition when it doesn't need to be and that's that i guess, can't say much on his image since i never really took much note of maxwell since i found his gameplay uninteresting

As for the shadow storage i did forget that it's also shared with shadow chester so anyone who has shadow chester also gets to have on the fly inventory trades if they desired, i think it's a nice workaround but outside of that there's synergies to having multiple maxwells, not only because you get to do your clone shenanigans but also because maxwells would have their own network of item trading which i not only find funny but also convenient for teamwork

15 minutes ago, edulopes said:

and his clones arent forever, so you waste more fuel in the spot than before, making them worse in regard of fly, it is not convinient is just worse all around

making the king of shadows become an mere farmer, that's bad for his image on it's own

And while true that his clones don't last forever it's not like they're terribly expensive either, besides with old maxwell you didn't want to have minions out all the time because then they'd be doing their tasks when you didn't want them to, i myself wasn't fond of this change at first until i played around with it for a bit and found it to be much more convenient now even if they're slightly more expensive than before

[Mysterious box]

Just now, SullyD said:

Oh, and now Maxwell needs to be equipping end game items, SUPER FUN, at this point I have already closed the game.

I guess you somehow missed the posts saying I wasn't a fan of that part huh.

[Wenhelxing]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Bias is a scary thing I'm not a Wendy main in fact I'm someone who was very vocal about Wendy's refresh being a bad direction and I've done tons of testing try not to debate this based on personal feelings.

Its about being fun, not nerfing the fyck out of a character

[arturako22]

First of all, I would like to comment on all the effort that the devs are putting into making a character that most people like and that what I am going to comment on is my attempt to improve the current gameplay.

I would also like to report that the Magician's Top Hat inventory cannot be accessed when mounted on a beefalo. Is this intentional or a bug?

9 hours ago, V2C said:

Additional Nightmare Fuel themed items that affect this damage scaling:

• Tier 1: All amulets
• Tier 2: Magician’s Top Hat, Dark Sword, Night Armor, Thulecite equipment
• Tier 3: Bone equipment (when fueled)
• Tier 4: Shadow Thurible (when fueled)

 

One issue I noticed while playing the world I created to survive using the new mechanics is that there is an excessive gear restriction in case you want to buff duelist damage during the previous patch. Although the addition of the new items relieves it, the fact that the bonuses are divided into tiers (I'm talking about tiers 1 and 3) still causes that feeling of restriction to continue to exist.

As for Shadow Thurible being tier 4, I haven't had time to test these changes so I won't comment much on this specific tier, but in case someone argues "You're sacrificing your damage to boost shadows" I'd like to remind you that beefalos exist, you can still deal dark sword damage and use Shadow Thurible, I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, it's just something to keep in mind.

[edulopes]

3 minutes ago, mr.wilson.BR said:

Some people of the community does seem to make it a competition when it doesn't need to be and that's that i guess, can't say much on his image since i never really took much note of maxwell since i found his gameplay uninteresting

this update made it boring again

 

3 minutes ago, mr.wilson.BR said:

As for the shadow storage i did forget that it's also shared with shadow chester so anyone who has shadow chester also gets to have on the fly inventory trades if they desired, i think it's a nice workaround but outside of that there's synergies to having multiple maxwells, not only because you get to do your clone shenanigans but also because maxwells would have their own network of item trading which i not only find funny but also convenient for teamwork

as i said any caracter can use it, so for me it could still be an wormwood thing and i would be able to use it, so t dont think is an good point to telling this as an Buff FOR maxwell, but a buff for any player, equal to making warly foods then placing him in the trash bin

 

5 minutes ago, mr.wilson.BR said:

And while true that his clones don't last forever it's not like they're terribly expensive either, besides with old maxwell you didn't want to have minions out all the time because then they'd be doing their tasks when you didn't want them to, i myself wasn't fond of this change at first until i played around with it for a bit and found it to be much more convenient now even if they're slightly more expensive than before

they arent just worth it, i was a fan of that maxwell part, was part of the skill needed to use him , but i liked the way that them followed you,  they are sligth expensive but more ufun to use because you have to keep using them over and over again, and how i said if you remove somone strength you should give in other side, they removed his goodhood on farm, you should compensate in this duellists

[SullyD]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I guess you somehow missed the posts saying I wasn't a fan of that part huh.

The problem is that people are reading the patch notes and don't open the game to test it, or they don't test it enough and think that Maxwell is a god.

They can't see how this mechanic of having LOW HP but being "forced" to engage in the fight makes NO SENSE.

Being "forced" to use specific items and END GAME items, to have a damage on the duelists is RIDICULOUS.

Can't anyone see the problem here of how tiring the gameplay will be ?
 

[Daniel14676]

Wow, this conversation is a mess. (Klei, I hope you notice the vocal minority, is still a minority. I'm not saying they don't have points, just that they are very vocal. Then again, that's kind of true for everyone here, considering most of the player base isn't participating, lol)

So I haven't tested this patch yet, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.

I like this update:

• He doesn't have a mono-build. And has some end-game items that can still upgrade him. (Using the Shadow Thurible is honestly a meme, I love it)
• HIs duelists, got nerfed a little bit from last hotfix, but that's fine, they are still very good. The fact that you take aggro, makes it so you can't AFK even if you can stay at greater range. (I do worry that this might be a little hard to learn about for new players, at least currently)
  • I will note, that mid game you have like 44ish base damage for you duelists, that's good. The fact you can't get his max potential mid game is a good thing. They tied that with a 1/3ish nerf to mid-game, which I think is fine. They are still good, even with the clucky casting time.

 

His gatherers are still incredibly strong and finely controlled (the farming potential is huge, and I love how lazy using them makes me feel), and he still has his pillar spell, which is awesome. (though will note his casting/summoning time is a little clucky, but maybe that is intentional).

Anyways, I'm looking forward to testing this hotfix for myself. (if my thoughts change, I will be back) 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Daniel14676