[Game Update] - 529998

[PuffinBy]

Awesome balancing changes! And I have a few feedbacks collected from other forums.

Duelists:

1. They are now a bit weak against a group of enemies, since the damage buff form shadow gears only works while Maxwell is fighting the same target. In this case, when dealing with groups of hounds/bees/spiders etc. duelists often won't receive buff even when Maxwell himself is fighting already. The Tweak I have in mind is adding a middle state for the shadow gear buff, where duelists get half of the buff when Maxwell is fighting but not the same target.

2. Duelists should try to target the same opponent with Maxwell more often. Not like they must always share the same target but there could be a chance for duelists to prioritize Maxwell's current target when they are looking for one. (This can also prevent Maxwell cheating a combat state like, for example, attacking a planted lureplant nearby. And can keep duelists from attacking Klaus' deer.)

3. As some already said ahead. It would be amazing to take bone helmet and armor into account for the damage buff.

Servants:

Besides lanterns, it would be very handy if they do not pick up some other light/heat sources which players might intentionally drop, i.e., lightbulbs glowberries and heatrocks.

 

Edit: turns out I'm wrong with the first thing, damage is only relevant to your gear not target.

Edited November 6, 2022 by PuffinBy

[Mysterious box]

12 hours ago, Ohan said:

How did they get made even better with participation when they were already shredding everything with previous patch’s numbers at barely any cost? 

they have comparable health to loyal merm guards against high damage opponents and deal more damage but instead of spawning from location bound expensive huts and needing a living king, max spawns with a full codex that can summon 20 duelists anywhere before it needs to be refilled with only 4 fuel. 

And the cage can still indefinitely immobilise anything at the crazy low cost of 1/5 fuel and 15 sanity? 

Its a better version of overcoming arachnophobia except o.a. costs 33 sanity per read, spawns nightmares when sanity is insufficient, needs bookcase to unlock, materials to crafts, 5 uses per book and cant even slow down boss lunge moves. 

Like whats going on? 

The end result of people saying balance doesn't matter and it's ok for survivors to have overlapping perks.

[Harambe]

Maybe make it that bone armor and helm count as shadow gear for the duelist buffs for more late game options. Also, it would be a nice nerf to make it that you need 3 items for the max DMG buff (helm, armor and sword, instead of just armor and sword).

[Cloakingsumo198]

13 minutes ago, Harambe said:

Maybe make it that bone armor and helm count as shadow gear for the duelist buffs for more late game options. Also, it would be a nice nerf to make it that you need 3 items for the max DMG buff (helm, armor and sword, instead of just armor and sword).

Doesn't the magicians hat also buff?

[Just-guy]

24 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Doesn't the magicians hat also buff?

Yes.

18 hours ago, Electroely said:

The duelists deal 20 damage without any boosts now, and the following gear boosts their damage:

- Magician's Top Hat adds +10 damage
- Night Armor adds +20 damage
- Dark Sword adds +10 damage

[-Variant]

13 hours ago, King Maxwell said:

Can we have changes in shadow sneak? It still looks very lackluster to me, I don't see situations where I would use it.

It's pretty useful as a farm since it alters mobs drops!

Edited November 6, 2022 by -Variant

[Parusoid]

4 minutes ago, -Variant said:

It's pretty useful as a farm since it alters mobs drops!

what does it do exactly? is it aoe damage?

Quote

Damage absorption gradually becomes less effective for Duelists that aren’t being attacked, and resets once they are hit.

anyone got exact numbers for this?

[-Variant]

2 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

what does it do exactly? is it aoe damage?

It instantly changes them into their shadow form. (Works on bunnymen and Monkeys, too.) And it alters their drops. Extra loot!

[Parusoid]

5 minutes ago, -Variant said:

It instantly changes them into their shadow form. (Works on bunnymen and Monkeys, too.) And it alters their drops. Extra loot!

does it do anythign to other mobs?

[-Variant]

6 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

does it do anythign to other mobs?

Aside from the ones I listed, it scares other mobs (Like a ghost haunting them) for about... 10 seconds I think.
Seems small but its decent for get-aways.

[POOH_LY]

I really like these changes. Now it feels like there are some synergies between Maxwell and the minions. 

It would be nice to have a new type of minions, The Guards, (they could be holding a spear or something, I dunno, to make them visually different from the Duelists.) They work the same way as Duelists without the lunge attack, but make them have infinite duration and follow you around (to guard you). Also, they will take the aggro when they land a hit on the mob. Because of this, maybe they should always have full damage reduction ability and some small regen. To make them not OP, I think you could limit the cap to 2 or something. (So, it's just like the old Duelists but a bit better.)

[-Variant]

46 minutes ago, POOH_LY said:

but make them have infinite duration and follow you around (to guard you).

This sounds really similar to the Bee Guards Maxwell can summon with Wickers book, while that's a bit obtuse I think it might be a good enough solution in case following mimics aren't added.

[Archswifter]

14 hours ago, Jorsef said:

Damage decay with distance is so bad, in many cases maxwell can not personally join the fight because of his low health.

He just kept running to avoid damage, and he's losing more damage now.

And the damage to the servants is now higher, and he can't recover HP, leading to easy death when facing some cases.

So now the situation is servants are very easy to die, and I have to run around to summon servants, but servants cause very little damage.

Not really??
Like, you're meant to engage in a fight at least somewhat, hence why proximity thing works well enough if you just want to sit back a bit, just wear the right gear and they have decent damage.
The Dark Sword & Night armor combo for their damage boost along with you helping out will be way more than enough given their cost is still the same, you don't even have to wear the top hat for this one even unless you want an extra 10 damage if you want to preserve your Night Armor durability.

[Arcwell]

4 minutes ago, Archswifter said:

Like, you're meant to engage in a fight at least somewhat, hence why proximity thing works well enough if you just want to sit back a bit, just wear the right gear and they have decent damage.

Patch notes are misleading.
Damage drops to 20 regardless of your gear beyond a certain range (roughly a 2 tile radius).
It's also based on distance to the duelist as opposed to the enemy, so the range is more like a 0.5 tile radius on larger enemies when duelists are flanking.

It's a great idea but the current implementation could use some tweaking.

[Cheggf]

53 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Patch notes are misleading.
Damage drops to 20 regardless of your gear beyond a certain range (roughly a 2 tile radius).
It's also based on distance to the duelist as opposed to the enemy, so the range is more like a 0.5 tile radius on larger enemies when duelists are flanking.

It's a great idea but the current implementation could use some tweaking.

What do you mean tile? Like a pitchfork tile? Because the duelists do a ton of damage, if it's upwards of half a pitchfork tile of range to the enemy that's good uptime on the buff.

If you do mean pitchfork tiles I would think lowering the range to 1 tile but basing it on the duelist's target instead of the duelist would be an improvement. Make it more consistent.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Cheggf

[Arcwell]

10 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

What do you mean tile? Like a pitchfork tile? Because the duelists do a ton of damage, if it's upwards of half a pitchfork tile of range to the enemy that's good uptime on the buff.

If you do mean pitchfork tiles I would think lowering the range to 1 tile but basing it on the duelist's target instead of the duelist would be an improvement. Make it more consistent.

Like a pitchfork tile.

Here's a visual example: Left is far enough to trigger damage falloff while right is close enough to not trigger damage falloff.
(Note: Duelist is behind AG on the left image. Neither were lunge attacks.)

Edited November 7, 2022 by Arcwell

[JesseB_Klei]

10 hours ago, PuffinBy said:

lightbulbs glowberries and heatrocks.

I have added these to the exceptions list are there more items you are noticing being exceptionally annoying for the Servants, Polly Rogers, and the Lazy Forager to pick up?

[YouKnowWho]

I've noticed that the text tends to get obscured by the lower two buttons. You can still read it, of course, but it doesn't look very good.

Could it be made to appear under the highlighted spell instead? 

[-Variant]

1 hour ago, JesseB_Klei said:

are there more items you are noticing being exceptionally annoying for the Servants, Polly Rogers, and the Lazy Forager to pick up?

If I may, I compiled a list. It has both general use items I don't think should be picked up, and some items I know are commonly used as decor that I feel wouldn't be too intrusive on gameplay is set to be ignored.
 

Spoiler

-Irreplaceables.  (?)
-Portal idols.
-Flares.
-Abi's flower.
-Hatching Eggs.
-Walter ammo.
-Rabbit/Bird trap. (They're bugged with this right now.)
-Warly cookware.

--------- Decor items if those are to be counted. ---------
-Cawnival items. [?] 
-Bush hat.
-Mourning Glory.
-Red Lantern. 
-Floating boat lanterns.
-Mouse toys.

And generally items that one might need to leave on the ground, and/or pick up in dire situations.

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by -Variant

[Cassielu]

2 hours ago, JesseB_Klei said:

I have added these to the exceptions list are there more items you are noticing being exceptionally annoying for the Servants, Polly Rogers, and the Lazy Forager to pick up?

Here my list:

Item with function: Shell Bell, alll kind of Balloons, Normal tree, Bernie, Mouse toy (YOTC), Mooneye with gem, Things like Beefalo Bell and Lavae Teeth, Shadow Thurible with fuel and Floating Lantern(YOTX), Traps.

Decorative purposes, If the flowers get it, they are also worth it: Ferns ( maybe including spawn by forest skeleton ), Succulents, the Moon Tree Flowers that naturally spawn on Lunar Island,

Those parts of the static layout that trigger or lose special effects by being picked up:  Ice and Fire Staff in the Hound Trap, Bath Bomb on Lunar Island

Also red firecrackers, because shadow servant will try to pick up the red firecrackers, but once they get close to it, they will be scared away by it, which will trap them in an eternal try. Its also an item that needs to be put on the ground to function.

BTW, can the shadow servants help us harvest the Drying Rack? It would be a good job for them.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Cassielu

[Jestymun]

1 hour ago, JesseB_Klei said:

I have added these to the exceptions list are there more items you are noticing being exceptionally annoying for the Servants, Polly Rogers, and the Lazy Forager to pick up?

They probably shouldn't pick up life giving amulets

[Arthas Durotan]

7 minutes ago, Jestymun said:

They probably shouldn't pick up life giving amulets

Imagine shadows picking up amulets to became real you lol

[JesseB_Klei]

Thank you for the lists and considerations everyone here is a brief overview of the list of items that are currently added to not be picked up by these things which may change before the next hotfix to add or remove some of these. There were already some suggested that are currently not targeted to being picked up due to how negatively it impacts the player if it does.

Spoiler

 

[Master_NiX]

I haven't tested yet, but I hope shadows won't be able to pick up flowers.

[ThymeSpirit]

2 hours ago, JesseB_Klei said:

Thank you for the lists and considerations everyone here is a brief overview of the list of items that are currently added to not be picked up by these things which may change before the next hotfix to add or remove some of these. There were already some suggested that are currently not targeted to being picked up due to how negatively it impacts the player if it does.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I would add tools, weapons and armor to this list. Maybe even every item that doesn't stack, because the player rarely wants more than a couple of them, and in the case they do, it's easier to pick up manually because the inventory slots are limited.

Edited November 7, 2022 by ThymeSpirit