[Game Update] - 515595

[Duck986]

No community requested tweaks?

[Chubbylicious]

1 hour ago, HugoM said:

Changes

• Wortox Soul Hop with the Map has had its range reduced by 20%.
  • This puts it in line with the expected range a player experiences when teleporting manually.
• Wortox Souls now only heal hurt players and have more diminishing returns when healing groups of hurt players.

 

I'm so sorry, but I can't agree with those changes. And it's not just because I'm a Wortox main, it's because you're chosing to appease the players who DON'T PLAY as Wortox instead of us, the people who actually enjoy the character.

I know the first post got a huge controversy, but as you can see, there's 1 hour that this update was released and none of the people who were posting complaints are here now. BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT WORTOX. ALL THEY CARE IS TO THEIR TRINITY TO BE INTACT.

And just to put a end to this comment, Wanda being able to teleport to ANY PLACE OF THE MAP while all she has is clocks... but Wortox, THE SOUL HOPPING DEMON, who travels through DIMENSIONS isn't... Well, I don't need to say much to express how this doesn't fit into the lore.

Again, I'm sorry that I'm kind of ranting in this comment. However, Wx rework was incredibly broken and he didn't receive huge nerfs, Wolfang was buffed a lot of times during his, Wanda's release... I can't understand why Wortox can't be """""broken"""" too.

[Duck986]

14 minutes ago, Chubbylicious said:

none of the people who were posting complaints are here now

I'm here, nice to meet you again.

If you don't visit forums often - I understood that my complaints about teleports were a mistake and I apologized about them in the initial Wicker rework beta post.

14 minutes ago, Chubbylicious said:

Wolfang was buffed a lot of times during his

yep, I would definitely call a speed boost loss (and holy hell forumites complained about this) and need to AFK for several seconds instead of just stuffing your stomach a buff.

I still don't like Wolfgang rework. Not as much as I did when it was just released tho. Plus I found Wanda more interesting to use my skill on.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Duck986

[Chubbylicious]

2 minutes ago, Duck986 said:

I'm here, nice to meet you again.

yep, I would definitely call a speed boost loss (and holy hell forumites complained about this) and need to AFK for several seconds instead of just stuffing your stomach a buff.

I still don't like Wolfgang rework. Not as much as I did when it was just released tho. Plus I found Wanda more interesting to use my skill on.

I will answer this in a single message... because I'm not very good at making posts in forum (this is still kinda of complex)
Anyway, nice to meet you too!
Well... To start, Wolf having a speed boost didn't make sense to his character. Like, at all. He get's his strenght back in LESS time than Wortox to collect all his souls. If we had to compare these two, let's imagine playing Wolfgang, but if you were AFK and reached the mightness limit, you would lose half of your might and some of your sanity. And now you can also gain mightness from chopping trees and doing other activities. I can't say a lot about his rework, I never found him very interesting to begin with, so it's just kind of meh (?).

Wanda's clock, after your build it, you'll just have to put a purple gem into it's socket, which is pretty cheap if I'm bein sincere. After using the purple gem for the portal, for the shadow machine and maybe to change characters, it gets kind of useless in your base. You could argue about the """difficulty""" of getting the tusk tooth, but after you get one for you... well, thwy'll just stockpile in your base anyway. This is why most players don't get back to the tusks after getting their full loot.
 

And as yourself said, you play Wanda now. She is a broken character, there's no way to deny it. So why are people so bothered to have another character, who is very team reliant to play at his maximum, to be """broken""""/fun too?

I can't understand, and I feel so bothered because it comes from a place of much love from me.

Ah, also, sorry for my english mistakes, I'm not a native speaker D:
(And thanks for answering! I'm certain that this will be a fun chat  )

[maxwell_winters]

11 minutes ago, Chubbylicious said:

However, Wx rework was incredibly broken and he didn't receive huge nerfs. 

Lower stats, increased damage from wetness, losing charge from freezing. They would have needed bigger nerfs only if they could equip all the circuits at once. 

20 minutes ago, Chubbylicious said:

 Wanda's release

Wanda is not a broken OP pay to win character. She's the advanced character that rewards experienced players for their skills, kiting, inventory management. I noticed that fighting with her require way more attention than with any other character. You can't just make a full stack of pierogies and eat them at every opportunity, tanking is not an option. You have to be careful about her age, clock cooldown and alarming clock fuel. Not to mention you need her to be at 35 HP to reach the fullest potential. 

[ADM]

2 minutes ago, Chubbylicious said:

Well... To start, Wolf having a speed boost didn't make sense to his character. Like, at all.

I'm totally unrelated to the topic here, since I pretty much love how Wortox has been improved since the start of the beta and I think the smoll nerf isn't so affecting but I still like to see what you think of it.

But anyhow, I still don't understand why people say that "Wolfgang speed boost wasn't fitting his build", "make no sense" and etc, aren't athletes prone to be likely faster and enduring than others ? Assuming Wolfgang did have speed boost in the past kinda confirmed that it made sense so saying it became illogical as they do cancel that perk seems to me rather irrational.

I think it was more of a balance decision so it's totally different but as we can see today with the WX-78 refresh just after and Wortox tweaks having easily accessible mobility is a pretty good pro. So yeah to this day I'm still confused of the decision despite I don't find much interest into the character too.

[JesseB_Klei]

1 hour ago, Anthony_L3hr said:

Is the map snapping intentional when soul hopping without the map? Because it really disorients me when hopping shorter distances.

No this will be fixed in the next hotfix sorry.

[chincer]

i dont mind the mass soul hop nerf if the cost of hopping is reasonable, wortox should at the very least be able to go from one side of the map to the other with 20 souls, it takes time to get that many souls

[Duck986]

3 hours ago, Chubbylicious said:

Well... To start, Wolf having a speed boost didn't make sense to his character. Like, at all. He get's his strenght back in LESS time than Wortox to collect all his souls.

Wolfgang's gimmick revolves around muscular strength, while Wortox's one around souls. I understand Wolf-mains complaints, but he doesn't require much skill unlike Wortox. Before you can just eat some meatballs and voila, your speed is just after charged WX's ones. Now it's just raw, constant power.

While Wortox can normally eat mostly souls in exchange for sanity, and all the physical food gives 1/2 of its stats, which can be rather challenging for a new player. And as I said in this topic, you get a deserved reward for overcoming this challenge, in my opinion.

Quote

And now you can also gain mightness from chopping trees and doing other activities. I can't say a lot about his rework, I never found him very interesting to begin with, so it's just kind of meh (?).

After one of the QoLs he started to lose this mightiness very, very fast if you don't have a dumbbell equipped, that's why these activities were necessary.

Quote

Wanda's clock, after your build it, you'll just have to put a purple gem into it's socket, which is pretty cheap if I'm bein sincere. After using the purple gem for the portal, for the shadow machine and maybe to change characters, it gets kind of useless in your base. You could argue about the """difficulty""" of getting the tusk tooth, but after you get one for you... well, thwy'll just stockpile in your base anyway. This is why most players don't get back to the tusks after getting their full loot.

I agree, purple gems are cheap and getting a tusk is very simple, but - to make a good teleport system, you need a lot of tusks and a lot of thulecite pieces (2.6667 of whole thuli, for comparison). There's mostly 1 MacTusk hut in the world, and they respawn every 2.5 days (so you can kill them 6 times if your timings are perfect). Tusk drop rate is 50%, so you get 3 on average. -1 for cane if you're playing solo (-x more for every x players in your world, -y for Lazy Explorers if you use 100% of them and not 95% + 20% of Deconstruction Staff). You see what I mean? Wanda needs to count on Triple Mactusk biome if she doesn't want this to be stretched out for 500 days.

Quote

And as yourself said, you play Wanda now. She is a broken character, there's no way to deny it. So why are people so bothered to have another character, who is very team reliant to play at his maximum, to be """broken""""/fun too?

I don't understand wdym by this sentence. Neither Wortox or Wanda are that team reliant - first has healing, second has Rift and Second Chance. In my opinion, both of them have appropriate rewards compared to challenges they provide.

About being broken... why tho? You have constant poisoning-like mechanic, have no benefits from any healing at all except Ageless watches (which do not stack, have a cooldown timer of 2 mins for each and regen only 20 HP (8 years)), and you need to have <=37.5 HP (>=65 years) to deal maximum damage with Alarming Clock. Moreover, this weapon actually has LESS DPS than mighty Wolfgang with a Dark Sword. By doing some simple calculations with a starting data of 68*2 dmg per ~0.5 seconds for Wolf and 142.8 dmg per ~0.67 seconds (because whip-like weapon) for Wanda, we get the result of 272 DPS for Wolf and 202.985 DPS for Wanda. And extended range doesn't make that much sense now because stun-like flinch for bosses was nerfed and loot stash doesn't have collision for Klaus now.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Duck986

[Bellium]

3 hours ago, HugoM said:

Wortox Soul Hop with the Map has had its range reduced by 20%.

Do you think along with this we could get some indicators on the map for how far a soul will take us? Just to make the feature a little more intuitive.

[Bazukem]

While I appreciate souls not being wasted on full hp players, I'm not too happy about the other changes. How significant will the diminish in returns be for healing groups of hurt players? (Not too much I hope).

As a Wortox main I may be biased but long term, Wanda makes Wortox's teleportation ability redundant in comparison, this change is very much appreciated. Why can't they both be equally good with their own respective nuance? While I see the point of having a drawback to the mechanic, a -20% range reduction is not it in my opinion. Wortox should be able to travel as intended before, it fits the lore considering he is able to quote unquote travel through dimensions... Nevertheless I am still super excited to see this reflected in the gameplay this way. Also does the -20% range reduction account for the fact that Wortox would be hopping twice with each soul hop? Thanks for the hard work Klei!

Edited July 16, 2022 by Bazukem
typo

[Evelo]

Could we maybe bump up the soul jump distance to 30%? I dont even play Wortox but the change from 100% to 20% seems a little extreme.

I misread! Thought it said "Reduced Soul Jump distance to 20%" not by 20%

Edited July 16, 2022 by Evelo

[Copyafriend]

6 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Could we maybe bump up the soul jump distance to 30%? I dont even play Wortox but the change from 100% to 20% seems a little extreme.

20% less so it’s still 80%

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

20% less so it’s still 80%

They really scared me for a sec I thought I was crazy for a sec there.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Mysterious box

[Evelo]

3 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

20% less so it’s still 80%

Ooooooh. Thank you thank you. Completely misread. Whoopsie!

[CarlZalph]

10 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Could we maybe bump up the soul jump distance to 30%? I dont even play Wortox but the change from 100% to 20% seems a little extreme.

A quick infographic on the distance change.

[bagherthegamer]

5 hours ago, HugoM said:

The Everything Encyclopedia bonus now gets properly saved

Heres an idea:

Let other charecters read this book and get all tier one or maybe even tier two science instantly. Its a small thing but i think it will be nice. 

[HowlVoid]

So, I know this is late so the devs will probably not read this but please revert the Wortox change.

If anyone in the cast deserves to move around the world via cheap teleportation, it's Wortox. 

I've been part of the nerf train in the past and it 100% comes from bias. It never comes from a place of understanding and wishing to bring a character balance. It comes people's own take on what each character should be "in their eyes" no matter the destruction it may bring. This is why I more readily encourage buffs, because if it comes to pass, it's less likely to inhibit on people's happiness. Which at the end of the day, I think video games should always strive to do (bring people happiness). Of course we don't wish to accept just any nonsense buff, and this isn't a nonsense buff. 

Unlike Wanda, Wortox can't bring multiple people with him. Unlike Wanda the price of the teleportations don't eventually dissapear completely. 

And despite what people constantly complain about, no healing is not Op. Like most video games (if not all) healing has a major drop off point, as the player collects better weapons, armor, and skill. People only look at the gross value of healing without considering how much that value fluctuates as the game progresses (usually downwards). 

So please consider making Wortox the happy teleporting imp everyone wants him to be.

Edited July 16, 2022 by HowlVoid

[Mike23Ua]

I play a lot of Wortox & I fully agree with these distance nerf, Wortox can have more souls then he knows what to do with by killing small mobs or even just capturing and killing small mobs or even just being near things when they die (like spider/Merm wars) or Abigail going ham on a group of mobs, Or Woodie Weremoose charging spiders or.. you get the idea.

His only tool in his kit is souls, which heals, gives sanity & now also gives short & long distance teleportation.

There is currently no consequences for carrying a stack of souls + small animals with intent to murder beyond the souls Threshold- Krampii do not spawn to kick him in the face for rejecting their kind when he isn’t doing naughty things- He’s just sort of a character with all Perks and no Downside.

Also we can’t accurately use the fact he soul hopped from the constant into Terraria and back as an excuse to teleport the entire map either, how do we know he didn’t have a limit on how far he could teleport and had to keep teleporting to finally get from one area to the other?

Its like Nightcrawler in the X-men movies.. he couldn’t teleport people ANYWHERE there was a limit to how far the teleportation took him/them.

Again I say this as someone who plays a lot of Wortox he’s one of my favorite survivors to play.

[Cloakingsumo198]

1 hour ago, CarlZalph said:

A quick infographic on the distance change.

Please revert let me teleport from one side to another with the max 20 souls

[Arvian]

6 hours ago, HugoM said:

Changes

• Wortox Soul Hop with the Map has had its range reduced by 20%

 

Oh no
    Firstly, I wanna say that Wortox is my favorite character and it's him makes me cling to this game. Actually speaking, after knowing Wortox would get buffed, I can't really fall asleep last night. Then today the new update hitted me like a stone right on my head.
    As Wortox's background mentioned, this little imp could go wherever he want. However, after the update yesterday we can find that Wortox still needs around 20 souls to jump from one side to the other side of the map. I know people would say it's kinda op but I just wanna mention that simply collecting 20 souls is not that easy for plays not as the host(The easiest way to get souls-Hitting Butterflies becomes not that easy because of the net delay and not everybody will locate near the wasphive) Furthermore, if you wanna go back home you have to collect another 20 souls which would also take you a long time. But luckily, before the update today, the high pay got the high return. And all the efforts the players have to take to reach a max map hop are still cost-effective. So I'm sorry Klei, I can't really accept that the maximum hop range will be reduced by 20%. Which means that if we wanna travel from one side to the other, we have to collect several more souls after the hop. It's a really unpleasing experience to any players and it's absolutely meaningless. Maybe you can add some other side effects to the map hop like losing sanity, hunger, ect. But the DISTANCE, as the core of the teleport system, shouldn't be reduced I think, at least it shouldn't be reduced that significantly. (By the way the 20% reduction of the range means the range of the whole circle area or the raduis of it, if its the raduis the whole area will be reduced by 36% I think...?) 

    Another thing I want to mention is that the cut of the range is not needed if you want to keep the balance. Only if the characters can fully show their own unique features could they be called a successful design. Like there's someone is good at battling and someone is good at planting. If their characteristics couldn't be fully displayed, I guess they would be forgotten one day. So please, give the RANGE back and try to add some side effects on other respects to make the balance. Please!
    It's my first time to comment on Klei platform and it's all and especially for Wortox. Wish you could think twice about the upcoming change. Thanks a lot!

[Faintly Macabre]

7 hours ago, HugoM said:

• Wortox Soul Hop with the Map has had its range reduced by 20%.
  • This puts it in line with the expected range a player experiences when teleporting manually.

 

This actually seems pretty reasonable to me. In case it's not clear to others reading ("teleporting manually" kind of tripped me up for a sec): the distance you can jump instantly on the map is now in line with the distance that you could get with the same number of souls if you just Soul Hopped there. That seems fair; you still save a good bit of time, and bypass considerations like whether or not there's traversable terrain in a straight line from your starting point to your destination.

[Ornge]

5 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

This actually seems pretty reasonable to me. In case it's not clear to others reading ("teleporting manually" kind of tripped me up for a sec): the distance you can jump instantly on the map is now in line with the distance that you could get with the same number of souls if you just Soul Hopped there. That seems fair; you still save a good bit of time, and bypass considerations like whether or not there's traversable terrain in a straight line from your starting point to your destination.

this does make the change seem a lot better. Especially when you take a look at that map. the 20% map reduction isn't as bad as it sounds considering you can still basically teleport from one end of the map to the other. It's not like you can't do that anymore it's just more in line with the distance you'd be able to travel using 20 souls manually

Edited July 16, 2022 by Ornge

[GelatinousCube]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

all Perks and no Downside.

He is a monster. Pigs, Bunnymen AND Catcoons all attack him on sight. Pig and Bunnyman farms are some of the best food setups you can create in the game. Bunnymen are also amazing against Beequeen and Pigs/Bunnymen can be used against other bosses or mobs as well as bodyguards. You can also hire Lumberjack Pigs to level forests for you. Catcoon pens are one of the only reliable ways to actual get butter on a somewhat regular basis. Wortox cannot do ANY of this.

He also only gets half the stats from all foods. Considering food is the number one source of healing (yes he has a very strong healing mechanic via souls so this is not that bad but still) and is obviously the number one source of hunger his soul mechanic takes getting used to.

He also gets punished for holding too many souls.

Newer players who struggle with going insane will also have a rough time with him as his sanity can be hard to manage.

Also if we're going to go down this route most characters downsides not only are no longer downsides once you are used to them but can even be used to your advantage in various ways.

Wanda has zero downsides once you get good with her, Wigfrid doesn't really have downsides once you get used to only meat and are skilled at crockpot meals and making the most out of food sources, Woodies curses are all super helpful and useful in various situatons so he doesn't really have real downsides (except Wicker griefing him and Moonstorm but thats another subject..), WX just has rain which once you have an Eyebrella is of more or less no consequence whatsoever, Wicker can't sleep or eat stale food (big whoop outside of Winters Feast) Wendy does less damage but if Abigail is also attacking the target it actually becomes a buff instead of less damage.. and so on and so forth. In reality there are like 3 or so characters that have real actual downsides. Warly, Wormwood and the Monster characters, and of course Wes but he is a challenge character.

Pretty much what I'm saying is that once you are used to a character and somewhat skilled at the game very few characters have real or meaningful downsides so saying he has no downsides (which he most definitely has as the Monster characters have a unique very real downside and weakness) doesn't really mean much...

Edited July 16, 2022 by GelatinousCube

[HowlVoid]

20 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

This actually seems pretty reasonable to me. In case it's not clear to others reading ("teleporting manually" kind of tripped me up for a sec): the distance you can jump instantly on the map is now in line with the distance that you could get with the same number of souls if you just Soul Hopped there. That seems fair; you still save a good bit of time, and bypass considerations like whether or not there's traversable terrain in a straight line from your starting point to your destination.

The distance you can travel manually is a game limitation. On paper it seems reasonable, but I don't see a reason why traveling longer distance should be measured by a imo trivial unit of measurement (trivial because it's only set by your screen size which just happened to be). 

It's only if Klei decides it be, but there's no telling the full power a soul can provide when performing a "hop" if such a limitations did not exist. So if Wortox isn't only teleporting to where he can "see" and souls provide more power than that, then it makes more sense for longer distances to be more cost effective. This is purely speculation, but it's within the realm of reason for longer distances to cost less to be reasonable also.

Edit: To add to the trivial unit of measurement argument, the distance Wortox can travel on console is a fixed distance and to a LESSER degree than what is possible on PC. So is Klei going to make teleporting on console even more expensive? Probably not, trivial numbers.

Edited July 16, 2022 by HowlVoid