Ideas for the Ocean

[LiamAshvinn001]

So I started playing Shipwrecked and it amazed me how tropical and exciting this was compared to DST's oceans and that got me thinking. Now obviously Klei cant do the same thing they did with Shipwrecked, cuz its better to spend time making new ideas instead of copy paste. Klei also has more restricions, they have a larger community and less time whereas they had like 6 months to make Shipwrecked even then Im sure it took longer and they were partnering with another company. However, there is some changes I think is worth for the oceans.

First, AMBIENCE. The current oceans arent good in terms of ambience, and its emptiness can be helped with some nice new atmosphere. DS SW did this really nicely, with different mobs swimming throughout the ocean and tons of different things to find, the same isnt impossible here. Heres an example: 

This is how a good ocean is. Its filled with exotic coral and fighting a cool enemy. The colouring is way more diverse and you can make out creatures swimming under it. Now heres DST's oceans.

The colour changes are less distinctive and theres barely anything. Now this is fine, the oceans are still in work, but... cmon.

So, first, it is ABSOLUTELY worth making shallow water and deep water distinctions. You can make new resources in specific areas and can make more ideas. I find the best designed oceans lets you see the distinction between water levels. Now the ocean colouring now should be the deep ocean colouring and a light blue version is the shallow water. Oceans should also have more brighter distinctions in the water.

 

Second, incentives. One of the most obvious things to fill an ocean is well content. However the ocean currently has almost no incentive to explore. You could argue Lunar Island and Pearl but theyre rewards are more for helping explore the ocean, and of course everyones favourite mob, Malbatross. The ocean should have more resources, not just seaweed. Incentives to explore the entire ocean. Heres some ideas I have, but its just some quick thoughts.

Fuel. Fuel is useful through out DST mid-game, lights, endos etc. What if the ocean has better fuel, that can refuel 25 percent of all items. That might sound too good but it could work something like SW, you have to craft a mining machine to get it. Hell maybe tar could fit into DST.

Farming. Ocean basing is always a nice way to add new stuff. Similiar to the Home Sea Home update I think ocean basing should be the next focus first, then all newer content will be more fun to explore, since youll already have a base designed around ocean exploration. First, if ocean basing is ever goin to be good, FARMING AND PLANTING IS REQUIRED. Twigs and Saplings are incrediblly useful and the fact you have no way to plant stuff in the ocean makes ocean basing immediately irrelevant. So here's an idea: there has to be something that let us farm on boats. ( Prefferably a new boat type maybe a boat with science machinery ) (Crops twigs AND grass) Second you also need incentive to do this since it costs a lot. First, farming crops shouldnt need to be watered. Hounds shouldnt spawn on ocean bases. Instead exploring enters the risk of new mobs chasing you. You should also be able to tie boats together, making it most fun.

 

The rest like new mobs and content is kind of already talked about but these are he first 2 points are what I think is holding the ocean back. So Klei if youre reading this please consider this, since I think its worth considering.

 

 

[GelatinousCube]

21 minutes ago, LiamAshvinn001 said:

and of course everyones favourite mob, Malbatross.

Do people really dislike Malbatross or something? I really like him. I like the design, the noises he makes and the fight itself. In fact I think hes one of the cooler looking bosses. 

[Waoling]

Sea foot, it a ocean parasite that grow on your foot, it happen when you fell into deep ocean too many time, to get it off you need parasite scapper.

[LiamAshvinn001]

56 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

Do people really dislike Malbatross or something? I really like him. I like the design, the noises he makes and the fight itself. In fact I think hes one of the cooler looking bosses. 

Most of the time its a joke but yeah some people REALLY hate that guy.

43 minutes ago, Waoling said:

Sea foot, it a ocean parasite that grow on your foot, it happen when you fell into deep ocean too many time, to get it off you need parasite scapper.

It could be an interesting consequence for not making a boat, tho making a whole item to remove it might be too much. Maybe a new item, sea scrapper. You could use it to remove Sea Foots and harvest some of the new resources in-game. Maybe they could also sometimes spawn in shallow water, further incentivising boats.

[Waoling]

More type of sail, oar and boat type, new ocean ore and 3 new ocean gem, like White Pearl, Black Pearl, and Grey Aragonite, lunar barnacle it grow on your ship when you left it near lunar shore for too long, they lower the maximum health of your ship and it slow you down when you you walk on it, you can get it off by using sea scrapper, and two Winona machine one that turn ocean water to fresh water that double as automatic water pump and another that turn water into ice that double as ice flingo-mactic.

[Empa505]

I do believe the ocean needs more stuff, but i don't want it to be filled to the grim of content. (Thats a problem i have with one unnamed mod) At the end of the day ocean is suppose to be... the ocean so i somewhat understand it being empty. 

if you think what was the last dst content update we got, waterlogged that added more ocean stuff, so i think their gonna add more ocean content in  the coming updates.

(I know terraria crossover happened, but thats a crossover so thats why im not counting it in this, sorry)

Also i feel like there is a problem in comparing SW oceans to DST oceans, since they have different takes on ocean. SW is suppose to be tropical and that's why its so colorful, and DST is suppose to be more of a colder ocean/Nordic themed one.

[Beeremy the III]

Adding more content to the ocean is the obvious answer.

In terms of content, I'd like to see a glacier island, which gets bigger in winter, but shrinks in summer. A stronger deerclops could be fought here, with better rewards.

Another ocean biome that could be added is a submerged rainforest, with giant frogs and mosquitoes, as well as lilypads that would be like a boat that you could plant crops in.

On the topic of boats, just make smaller boats that go faster. Going fast in the current ocean will have you slamming your boat into sea stacks at every possible interval, amplified with how slow turning the boat is. I'm not advocating for shipwrecked type boats, though those are a good idea, but smaller versions of the pancake boats that have, at the very least, a much better time turning.

 

[Cheggf]

15 hours ago, LiamAshvinn001 said:

Heres an example: 

 

The only thing in this screenshot that isn't in DST is the floaty boaty knight, since DST has normal clockworks. DST already has rocks, seaweed, and fish.

[Theukon-dos]

Atmosphere wise, I think the ocean is fine enough as-is. Yeah, it's a bit empty, but IMO it has enough stuff in it that you have to actually pay attention, and the things that are in the ocean are pretty cool. The Waterlogged biome might very well be my favorite biome in the game.

 

As for your suggestions though... Wouldn't really help.

 

Fuel could be nice, depending on how it works. More specifically, a non-perishable and effective alternative too light bulbs would be rather appreciated.

But being able to live at the ocean? No, that wouldn't do it.

 

The issue with Ocean Content at the moment is that, while there's quite a bit out there, very little of it helps on the mainland. So if you're not one who goes sailing for the sake of Sailing, really all you're missing out on are Salt Boxes and Knobbly Nuts. (I don't count Lunar Island, sense most people find that by looking at the mainland instead of sailing around for it.) 

[Spep]

I think there is a bigger problem with the ocean than just being empty, but also being extremely costly in terms of time spent to actually get something done, in the time you can get one knobbly nut, or get enough salt for a box, you could also get a whole inventory of logs, or absolutely anything other than staring at empty ocean harder than a sniper through their scope to prevent ramming into a sea stack.

it really does not help that the ocean looks more like a blue carpet than a body of water half the time.

I would love to see some kind of randomly generated ocean currents, some changes to how the ocean looks in general, and for turning to actually be tolerable beyond paddling like a madman or having to use the anchor every 30 seconds, like a wheel upgrade dropped from crab king or something.

Anyway yeah just make the opportunity cost of going sailing not so far in the negatives it isn't even funny and make the ocean feel less like carpet, i think we are on the right track after that.

[LiamAshvinn001]

23 hours ago, Empa505 said:

I do believe the ocean needs more stuff, but i don't want it to be filled to the grim of content. (Thats a problem i have with one unnamed mod) At the end of the day ocean is suppose to be... the ocean so i somewhat understand it being empty. 

if you think what was the last dst content update we got, waterlogged that added more ocean stuff, so i think their gonna add more ocean content in  the coming updates.

(I know terraria crossover happened, but thats a crossover so thats why im not counting it in this, sorry)

Also i feel like there is a problem in comparing SW oceans to DST oceans, since they have different takes on ocean. SW is suppose to be tropical and that's why its so colorful, and DST is suppose to be more of a colder ocean/Nordic themed one.

True, though I just find SW oceans to be more immersive then DST oceans.

 

9 hours ago, Cheggf said:

The only thing in this screenshot that isn't in DST is the floaty boaty knight, since DST has normal clockworks. DST already has rocks, seaweed, and fish.

Im comparing the visuals when I said that. It just looks more immersive, and not cuz of different themes. You can have a cold ocean theme it just could have more visual flare.

 

6 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Atmosphere wise, I think the ocean is fine enough as-is. Yeah, it's a bit empty, but IMO it has enough stuff in it that you have to actually pay attention, and the things that are in the ocean are pretty cool. The Waterlogged biome might very well be my favorite biome in the game.

 

As for your suggestions though... Wouldn't really help.

 

Fuel could be nice, depending on how it works. More specifically, a non-perishable and effective alternative too light bulbs would be rather appreciated.

But being able to live at the ocean? No, that wouldn't do it.

 

The issue with Ocean Content at the moment is that, while there's quite a bit out there, very little of it helps on the mainland. So if you're not one who goes sailing for the sake of Sailing, really all you're missing out on are Salt Boxes and Knobbly Nuts. (I don't count Lunar Island, sense most people find that by looking at the mainland instead of sailing around for it.) 

My suggestions were more of spitballing ideas. Im not the only one who loves the idea of ocean basing being a viable alternative than other places.

[Waoling]

Woodleg.

[Empa505]

1 hour ago, LiamAshvinn001 said:

though I just find SW oceans to be more immersive then DST oceans.

Yeah i feel you. But i think there is big diffrence in the oceans. When sw came out the ocean was there from the start. (of course it was) Vs. Dst, where the ocean was added much laiter in the games life. 

So i think we just need to patient, Klei is't a tripple A studio that can do big updates all the time. I think its already super amazing what they can do right now. 

[LiamAshvinn001]

22 minutes ago, Empa505 said:

Yeah i feel you. But i think there is big diffrence in the oceans. When sw came out the ocean was there from the start. (of course it was) Vs. Dst, where the ocean was added much laiter in the games life. 

So i think we just need to patient, Klei is't a tripple A studio that can do big updates all the time. I think its already super amazing what they can do right now. 

True, I cant wait to see what they add next, probably take some time before they focus back on the ocean, they said theyre working on something else for now. They said at the start this year is mainly setting the stage content, makes me really interested to see where they go

[Mike23Ua]

I have the dreadful feeling that dst not just the ocean but dst in general is so lacking in content because it has to support multiple players at once.

If this is true: then it explains why the ocean and many biomes in the game are mostly empty bare wastelands as opposed to say the single player expansions SW and Hamlet which always felt brimming with constant life to me.

Even Klei themselves show signs of wanting to do “more” with DST such as for example making a ton of cute themed cats for a useless Mini-Game in the Trade Inn that are themed with colors of each biome.

If this were DS solo I bet a million bucks Klei’s next step would had been to add them to the games actual biomes and give them a similar function to Hamlets Pogs.

However, The game being multiplayer may also mean that they can’t “do” that.. and it is a very unfortunate thing if true- because BOTH the Ocean and the very empty biomes should be brimming with life.

One of the things I’ve talked about in the past when discussing Shipwrecked is that in that game there are under the map creature spawners these can not ever be destroyed by the player so the mobs always Respawn giving the area life.

In DST however.. if you kill a Hound Den or (Prior to the Year of the Catcoon Event) a Catcoon Den- those things are destroyed forever and that location within the game becomes void of content.

YotCC changed that though because NOW Catcoon Dens will regenerate Over-Time after being destroyed.

This is something Klei should consider with many other areas of the game, such as Leaky Shacks, Bee Hives & Swamp Tentacles.

The main reason Shipwreckeds Ocean works where as DSTs just feels boring is that there’s always something to see or do or fight, or avoid.

things like dodging ocean waves, fighting Jellyfish, avoiding getting speared to death by a Swordfish all of these things add up to making the Waters of Shipwrecked feel like a believable place brimming with life and resources- Where as in DST it literally feels like a cleverly disguised loading screen to get from point A to point B with not much in between.

Another thing that further separates Shipwrecked from DST is that although there’s an ocean full of believable life, there are also LAND BIOMES scattered throughout SW’s Ocean broken apart into many Islands, and instead of only being able to build your boat out of a limited very strict set of resources as you do in DST- Shipwrecked let you choose a large variety of different vessel types made out of various materials.

Example: if you somehow found yourself on an island that had no trees for wood you could likely find Viney Bushes & Bamboo Bushes to create your next raft with.

Another equally important thing: while chopping/gathering those resources the player always had the chance they could spawn a hostile mob such as: chopping Bamboo bush spawning a snake from inside it.

These experiences made Shipwrecked feel “alive” and like a believable world brimming with wildlife and resources.

In DST, I sail through a very empty sea and maybe MAYBE if I’m extremely lucky.. (or unlucky depending on the circumstances..) A RockJaw Shark might spawn in between my trip from the mainland to collect salt where the cookie cutters dwell.

when Klei first announced Return of Them will be getting boats I was very excited and thought finally they were porting the best parts of what I loved about the shipwrecked expansion into DST, unfortunately.. in my own personal opinion instead what I got was a boat and an ocean that feels like it is very very much still in a Beta process.

I will remain hopeful that Klei’s “Bigger Content plans of 2023/2024” will address all of the above problems I have with the game  but first, we have to make it through the current roadmap of character reworks and carnival games.

[reallychina]

The most straightforward and easy to implement solution to make ocean better is to introduce the spyglass/superspyglass from sw and make pearl's bottles visible on map like treasure bottles are in SW.

 

crabking giving you mats for superspyglass would be only logical

[HansimUnglueck]

On 5/17/2022 at 9:44 AM, GelatinousCube said:

Do people really dislike Malbatross or something? I really like him. I like the design, the noises he makes and the fight itself. In fact I think hes one of the cooler looking bosses.

It's just not worth the time. The loot is mediocre at best and when Malbatross was introduced you sometimes had to look for it for about 20 days. Before the changes to boat physics the fight was just really, really annoying. All in all, one of the weakest boss designs.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I have the dreadful feeling that dst not just the ocean but dst in general is so lacking in content because it has to support multiple players at once.

Can you elaborate on that because to me that sentence does not make any sense.

13 hours ago, Spep said:

it really does not help that the ocean looks more like a blue carpet than a body of water half the time

That's mainly because of no direct movement of water. In comparison, SW has waves which might not be as huge as people perceive them to be but they play an essential role for the immersion of manouvering your boat/ship in an ocean. To go even further, the waves are just the visual representation of temperature, water and air entwining each other, something that depends highly on the season you're in and what you can actively change in SW with the Howling Conch or the Sail Stick. In DST Malbatross, Gnarwail, and the Gnarwail Horn can create waves but these have no other purpose than to punish the player and push boats. In addition, wind always blows from any direction to make the way one can manouver their boats in DST viable so we're most likely not getting any change at all ever. It's a lot less interactive in design, one could argue devoid of any ocean mechanics at all.

17 hours ago, Cheggf said:

The only thing in this screenshot that isn't in DST is the floaty boaty knight, since DST has normal clockworks. DST already has rocks, seaweed, and fish.

That comparison really falls flat because these stones you got in DST only support one lifeform, other that that they are devoid of any life and variation and serve no other purpose than to block your way or support said lifeform. Their loot falls into the ocean most of the time, so you don't even get a reward for mining them. There is no way to renew them so far outside of the Crab King fight and there is also no reason to do so. It's just a lot of skeleton rocks. Arguably, there are fish shoals which give you some engagement but OP is not the only person feeling this way. This whole composition doesn't invoke a feeling of ambience to a lot of people I know and have talked to. Coral rocks could be a first step into fighting this lack of cohesiveness, giving the ocean some very needed color refreshments.

[Hornete]

On 5/17/2022 at 3:44 AM, GelatinousCube said:

Do people really dislike Malbatross or something? I really like him. I like the design, the noises he makes and the fight itself. In fact I think hes one of the cooler looking bosses. 

Unironically one of my favourite boss fights for the sole fact they're designed like the RoG bosses instead of just another raid boss.

I miss the RoG boss design, they're bosses that actually interact with their environment instead of just being innate and waiting for the player to come "activate" them.

[lakhnish]

I think part of the problem is that the majority of the ocean is full of sea stacks.

They eat up a lot of real estate in the ocean, but even if they weren't there, what deep sea activities can Klei even add?

Most of the ocean activity is under water, no?

Regardless, I don't particularly mind the ocean being set on the back burner since we're getting the setting the stage updates this year, which is a very nice change of pace since half of the RoT updates didn't really affect the story for RoT.

[GelatinousCube]

2 hours ago, HansimUnglueck said:

It's just not worth the time. The loot is mediocre at best and when Malbatross was introduced you sometimes had to look for it for about 20 days. Before the changes to boat physics the fight was just really, really annoying. All in all, one of the weakest boss designs.

I agree on the loot to a degree however I do really like the watering can and the bill makes for an amazing paddle. 

Yeah she can also be hard to find but I have an area with four shoals close together in my main world so I guess I'm biased as it's never too hard to find her. 

The fight itself I really enjoy though both before and after the boat changes.

[Well-met]

I've said it often, but the ocean is mainly lacking setpieces.

Real survivor shipwrecks (not just a few planks), haunted dwellings, sunken lighthouses, watery graveyards, gnarwails vs sharks, pig or merm rafts, tentacles, rock formations that involve rock lobsters, icebergs, small walkable lands, maybe the implied tentacle monster, ect.

it's really a no brainer

[Hornete]

19 minutes ago, Well-met said:

I've said it often, but the ocean is mainly lacking setpieces.

Real survivor shipwrecks (not just a few planks), haunted dwellings, sunken lighthouses, watery graveyards, gnarwails vs sharks, pig or merm rafts, tentacles, rock formations that involve rock lobsters, icebergs, small walkable lands, maybe the implied tentacle monster, ect.

it's really a no brainer

I really wish worldgen in general would get a small update and add a bunch of setpieces to the mainland too.

Perhaps it's just me but it felt like set pieces were much more common in solo Don't Starve and those worlds always felt a little bit different each time to me, especially the caves with the failed survivor camps and all. Boons, trap set pieces(my favourite of them all), I really wanna see the devs just have fun for a future QoL update where they just create a bunch of new set pieces to freshen up the world and add some replayability to exploration.

[Just-guy]

Something the ocean could get is an expansion of the flora and fauna, right now most of them are only present in their specific biome and even more condensed that land biomes, which creates the big spaces of almost nothingness. 

There are a lot of things that can be added in those spaces to make the ocean feel more alive, maybe have scattered animals and plants that weren't present in Shipwrecked, like electrical eels, or even fantasy creatures, like sirens that use enlightenment.

[LiamAshvinn001]

16 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I have the dreadful feeling that dst not just the ocean but dst in general is so lacking in content because it has to support multiple players at once.

If this is true: then it explains why the ocean and many biomes in the game are mostly empty bare wastelands as opposed to say the single player expansions SW and Hamlet which always felt brimming with constant life to me.

Even Klei themselves show signs of wanting to do “more” with DST such as for example making a ton of cute themed cats for a useless Mini-Game in the Trade Inn that are themed with colors of each biome.

If this were DS solo I bet a million bucks Klei’s next step would had been to add them to the games actual biomes and give them a similar function to Hamlets Pogs.

However, The game being multiplayer may also mean that they can’t “do” that.. and it is a very unfortunate thing if true- because BOTH the Ocean and the very empty biomes should be brimming with life.

One of the things I’ve talked about in the past when discussing Shipwrecked is that in that game there are under the map creature spawners these can not ever be destroyed by the player so the mobs always Respawn giving the area life.

In DST however.. if you kill a Hound Den or (Prior to the Year of the Catcoon Event) a Catcoon Den- those things are destroyed forever and that location within the game becomes void of content.

YotCC changed that though because NOW Catcoon Dens will regenerate Over-Time after being destroyed.

This is something Klei should consider with many other areas of the game, such as Leaky Shacks, Bee Hives & Swamp Tentacles.

The main reason Shipwreckeds Ocean works where as DSTs just feels boring is that there’s always something to see or do or fight, or avoid.

things like dodging ocean waves, fighting Jellyfish, avoiding getting speared to death by a Swordfish all of these things add up to making the Waters of Shipwrecked feel like a believable place brimming with life and resources- Where as in DST it literally feels like a cleverly disguised loading screen to get from point A to point B with not much in between.

Another thing that further separates Shipwrecked from DST is that although there’s an ocean full of believable life, there are also LAND BIOMES scattered throughout SW’s Ocean broken apart into many Islands, and instead of only being able to build your boat out of a limited very strict set of resources as you do in DST- Shipwrecked let you choose a large variety of different vessel types made out of various materials.

Example: if you somehow found yourself on an island that had no trees for wood you could likely find Viney Bushes & Bamboo Bushes to create your next raft with.

Another equally important thing: while chopping/gathering those resources the player always had the chance they could spawn a hostile mob such as: chopping Bamboo bush spawning a snake from inside it.

These experiences made Shipwrecked feel “alive” and like a believable world brimming with wildlife and resources.

In DST, I sail through a very empty sea and maybe MAYBE if I’m extremely lucky.. (or unlucky depending on the circumstances..) A RockJaw Shark might spawn in between my trip from the mainland to collect salt where the cookie cutters dwell.

when Klei first announced Return of Them will be getting boats I was very excited and thought finally they were porting the best parts of what I loved about the shipwrecked expansion into DST, unfortunately.. in my own personal opinion instead what I got was a boat and an ocean that feels like it is very very much still in a Beta process.

I will remain hopeful that Klei’s “Bigger Content plans of 2023/2024” will address all of the above problems I have with the game  but first, we have to make it through the current roadmap of character reworks and carnival games.

Idk how multiplayer affects it. The reason Hamlet and Shipwrecked has more is because they had more time and resources. Now they have to update multiple games. Besides nowdays were getting better content like Waterlogged and WX's rework. Don't worry, Klei's focusing on polishing up stuff so definitely some ocean stuff getting updates. 

 

15 hours ago, Hornete said:

Unironically one of my favourite boss fights for the sole fact they're designed like the RoG bosses instead of just another raid boss.

I miss the RoG boss design, they're bosses that actually interact with their environment instead of just being innate and waiting for the player to come "activate" them.

True, its just the extra RNG can be annoying. 

 

11 hours ago, Just-guy said:

Something the ocean could get is an expansion of the flora and fauna, right now most of them are only present in their specific biome and even more condensed that land biomes, which creates the big spaces of almost nothingness. 

There are a lot of things that can be added in those spaces to make the ocean feel more alive, maybe have scattered animals and plants that weren't present in Shipwrecked, like electrical eels, or even fantasy creatures, like sirens that use enlightenment.

Some of this stuff sounds cool! Personally I want something like the Quacken. Tho it has to be more grim-toned, maybe new ocean setpieces as suggested earlier, that would be awesome!