[Game Update] - 498339

[Toros]

I thought the mightiness loss on hit was a fun mechanic that needed tuning, but I have to agree that Wolfgang in his current state didn’t need the downside when compared to other combat characters.

Wanda already does the “kite well or else while fighting in melee” niche, and Wolfgang doesn’t have a close to her utility.

Wendy has beefalo synergy and aoe damage, which Wolf doesn’t have.

Wigfrid has cheap armor, better defense, and group buffs.

Wolf is in a good spot as a combat generalist with some strength related out of combat utility.  Losing mightiness on hit had anti-synergy with negating marble slowdown.

[lionking102]

I'm fine with Wolfgang both, Wolfgang loosing mightyness or not when getting hit. But I don't really like the much higher passive drain. That doesn't add any challenge or downside and is just a bit annoying when doing stuff in the base. 

[Spino43]

36 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Thats something all these buffs/nerfs to Wolfgang isn’t going to fix.. they need to make changes elsewhere (such as my above suggested Beefalo not being able to carry heavy stuff for you until fully tamed with groomed fur)

That would be an awful change. A lot of people just want to use Beefalo to move the suspicious pieces and the moon altars, and never bother with beefalos again.

Forcing people to waste at least 15 days just to be able to move statues isn't fun, especially if they don't like Beefalos.

[GLERMZ]

3 hours ago, ScottHansen said:

Wolfgang

• Upon reviewing the motivation behind losing might when getting hit, we have decided that it was not achieving its purpose, and when comparing him to other characters it was deemed unnecessary. Therefore, it has been removed. 
• The rate the Woflgang passively loses might has been increased. 

 

As someone who was completely disappointed with the first re-work of Wolfgang, this beta made me actually enjoy Wolfgang again. Even considering that the loss of Mightness was too punishable in some moments, I do think that this was a really nice approach and idea that the team came up with. 
Removing this all together and just giving more passive mightiness loss goes back to the problems that the first re-work of Wolfgang had, I actually enjoy a lot being able to stay Mighty for quite some time before using gembell, if I wasn't doing any tasks, and I enjoyed actually having to be careful not lose mightiness while fighting, I think that was more engaging than a simple passive debuff. 
I think a better approach would have been taking half of MIghtness loss if wearing armor, and still, be what it was if you get caught without one. This would help those who have more trouble kitting while still making it punishable instead of just braindead press F.

TLDR: I think the devs Nailed the first concept in this beta.

3 hours ago, ScottHansen said:

• Fixed a bug that allowed you to attack across the void with melee weapons that have a range longer than normal.

 

Why was this a needed change? And why now? If it's because it was too strong for Wanda why not make some of the gaps that were cheesable, especially in the Robots setpieces, be 1 full tile wide instead of half a tile? I would understand this more than not being able to hit across a gap that my weapon can clearly reach, while a Bishop can still snipe me from the same gap. 
I can get aboard of the theme that the Ruins are supposed to be walled like they were in the DS beta, but then it would make sense that everything would work like that, us, Lazy Explorer, npcs, etc which I'm totally up for it.
I just think this was a none issue and feels a bit weird to be noted as a Bug when it felt very much intended. Cheesable yes, but understandable. 
 

3 hours ago, ScottHansen said:

• Fixed a bug where disconnecting from the server or going to a different world would prevent hounds waves/depth worm waves from spawning.
  • While we always want feedback about our game, we recognise that this isn’t everyone's favourite mechanic, and as such if you don’t like hound waves or depth worm waves, you can always change their spawning properties in the world settings for your world.

 

I knew this day would eventually be here, and i always prepared my bases in the events of happenning within any of the patches of the past years, so this comes with no surprise. I still wish fire hounds would get re-worked. Why not make them exactly like the Ice Hounds? If we kill one we start to glow red, if we kill the second one in a short time, before cooling off, we burst on fire. Not only would this actually be a bigger threat to the player and do more damage, would still have the fire element, it would work exactly like the Ice Hound but a fire variant, instead of just being a bunch of fire puddles that just ruin a lot of the endgame. Even doing safe hound kill zones, because of the way the fire ones work now, you have to make them bigger just to take into account how far a fire can spread and how random it can be placed.
This idea was from @chaosmonkey

Since we most likely not getting a fire hound re-work, can we at least have a setting to disable the fire hounds specifically? I like hounds, I don't mind the waves at all, I just don't want to have to deal and think around a mechanic that only griefs enveirmont. Would be a nice option to have  

---

As for the rest of the patch, phenomenal work, can't wait for the rest of the actions being able to be done while the crafting menu is open. New icons look so much better, and some of the other bug fixes and tweaks are pretty awesome.

Keep up the good work,
Regards,

Glermz

Edited March 10, 2022 by GLERMZ

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, Spino43 said:

That would be an awful change. A lot of people just want to use Beefalo to move the suspicious pieces and the moon altars, and never bother with beefalos again.

Forcing people to waste at least 15 days just to be able to move statues isn't fun, especially if they don't like Beefalos.

Have you ever tried to put a saddle on a horse you haven’t bonded with in real life or an emergency equipment bag on a stray dog? A Beefalo isn’t going to just let you throw some absurdly heavy thing on its back unless it TRUSTS YOU First.

Its like trying to get on a Wild Horse in Red Dead Redemption 2.. go ahead Try it let me know what happens.

This change would give Wolfgang the early game edge in moving heavy stuff while later he can become outclassed by a tamed befriended fuzzy pal.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, ScottHansen said:

While we always want feedback about our game, we recognise that this isn’t everyone's favourite mechanic, and as such if you don’t like hound waves or depth worm waves, you can always change their spawning properties in the world settings for your world.

would be nice if there were a setting to only diseable fire hounds. i really enjoy hound waves, even the old ones but being in a very long megabase world or in others world made difficult to fight fire hounds without destroying something, you were forced to make safe zones and to be really carefully while fighting them which add an artificial difficulty since the players which are more into the "survival" aspect of the game just dont care about certain non renewable resources because worlds get reset often which made fire hounds easier than ice ones but for people who plan on having a very long term world they were a nightmere. I literally expend a lot of minutes fighting them just trying to killing them without setting things on fire, is kinda silly to dont take the opportunity of hitting them because "ups if i hit them here that <insert non renewable plant> will set on fire, better i keep running>

having a setting for fire hounds wont make the hound waves easier, actually hardder since they would spawn only regular ones (150hp instead of just 100hp plus fire that made other hounds scary) and will add a lot of quality for our lives in the game

or atleast make fire hounds only appear in summer, is silly to need fire protection outside of summer

 

pd. i would love if pinchin' winch isnt activate by pressing 'space', makes picking stuff in the ocean so tedious

[Spino43]

13 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Have you ever tried to put a saddle on a horse you haven’t bonded with in real life or an emergency equipment bag on a stray dog? A Beefalo isn’t going to just let you throw some absurdly heavy thing on its back unless it TRUSTS YOU First.

Its like trying to get on a Wild Horse in Red Dead Redemption 2.. go ahead Try it let me know what happens.

This change would give Wolfgang the early game edge in moving heavy stuff while later he can become outclassed by a tamed befriended fuzzy pal.

No. But beefalos in game basically follow you everywhere once you bond with it via Beef bell. You can kill an entire herd of Beefalo by just bond with one and lure it out, kill it, and repeat the process. Real life horses/dogs don't just follow you mindlessly after you ring a bell.

This change will also affect every character heavily except Walter and Wolfgang, which means they will be forced to tame a Beefalo, which a lot of players actually don't want to, not everyone goes taming Beefalo on day 1. I personally never go Beefalo taming as I simply don't like it. Honestly they will just switch to Walter/Wolgang rather than trying to tame a beefalo.

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Spino43

[UbiAnomaly]

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Have you ever tried to put a saddle on a horse you haven’t bonded with in real life or an emergency equipment bag on a stray dog? A Beefalo isn’t going to just let you throw some absurdly heavy thing on its back unless it TRUSTS YOU First.

 

Beefalo are not horses, and aren't even based off of them : )

The change you suggested is awful and unnecessary, if only for the reason that it makes the shadow pieces and lunar island season long investments.

[SomebodyRandom]

12 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Have you ever tried to put a saddle on a horse you haven’t bonded with in real life or an emergency equipment bag on a stray dog? A Beefalo isn’t going to just let you throw some absurdly heavy thing on its back unless it TRUSTS YOU First.

Its like trying to get on a Wild Horse in Red Dead Redemption 2.. go ahead Try it let me know what happens.

This change would give Wolfgang the early game edge in moving heavy stuff while later he can become outclassed by a tamed befriended fuzzy pal.

Ah yes, let's make Wolfgang into a switch character because "unrealistic" and "Wolfgang should be unique and alternatives bad"

[Mike23Ua]

5 minutes ago, UbiAnomaly said:

Beefalo are not horses, and aren't even based off of them : )

The change you suggested is awful and unnecessary, if only for the reason that it makes the shadow pieces and lunar island season long investments.

This thread is highlighting beta patch notes and in those patch notes it details changes still being made to Wolfgang, therefore I am to assume that Klei wants him as a character in a good spot.

Your Alternative heavy item lifting is a Boat with a Pinch Winch (and we all know the long process required to get your hands on one of these) so why on earth can Beefalo by pass them? Why on earth can Beefalo out do Wolfgang and something he is supposed to do?

Ill tell you why because people can slap a saddle on a Beefalos Back as early as day 1 and then do all the heavy statue carrying.

This makes Wolfgang AND moving stuff with the Boat Winch completely irrelevant options..

But if you actually had to put just as much effort into using Beefalo as you do a Boat & Pinch Winch then Beefalo are no longer the ONLY Option.

Hopefully someone working at Klei will understand what I’m trying to say because I have a horrible way with words.

[zarklord_klei]

40 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

Cause by the logic in the bullet point, the same reasoning would apply, just disable wildfires. I know that a lot has since been added to the game since that statement (ie. the settings QoL), but I'm personally not a fan of setting the trend of "just disable it" since it's not really an interesting solution to me that addresses the core issue of the problem.

The difference is a lot of people were effectively using that bug as a way to turn hounds off, without actually turning hounds off, IE. if they don't like the hounds mechanic(and they were using that bug as a way to turn it off, without it actually being off), turn it off, if you want to offer suggestions to improve the mechanic, then please do, we want to improve the hound wave mechanic, and we felt fixing bugs and cleaning up how it works to be consistent was the first step.

[UbiAnomaly]

44 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This makes Wolfgang AND moving stuff with the Boat Winch completely irrelevant options..

The pinching winch lets you pull things out of the ocean, not carry statues around. You can just drop statues on boats, no winch required.

Wolfgang's statue perk is more of a convenience thing than a perk that is supposed to be viable. It makes sense that there is a better alternative, especially since most people would just switch to Walter to move anything if this was implemented.

Edited March 10, 2022 by UbiAnomaly

[. . .]

3 hours ago, ScottHansen said:

Fixed a bug that allowed you to attack across the void with melee weapons that have a range longer than normal.

@ScottHansen Can you guys please revert this change? It's broken a bunch of mods which utilize the void now like sweet house, bridges, tropical experience, and others because you can't attack at all on the void anymore :/

 

[zarklord_klei]

4 minutes ago, . . . said:

@ScottHansen Can you guys please revert this change? It's broken a bunch of mods which utilize the void now like sweet house, bridges, tropical experience, and others because you can't attack at all on the void anymore :/

 

There is a fix coming any mod that got affected by this, it will be in the next hotfix.

[shiguld]

1 hour ago, Koomin said:

Hopefully the mightiness loss was significantly ramped up, like 2x or something, otherwise Wolfgang is now just going to be back to being massively better than the rest of the cast after the pile of buffs in this QOL.  The loss on hit concept was really cool and resulted in an interesting character with upsides and downsides.  

I think a better choice than increasing might loss which will be annoying to most is to add in a different downside.

You know what, i can't let this comment slide because it's comments like these that led us to this mess in the first place. Wolf is not massively better, it's arguable if he's even better than Wilson depending on your experience and his playstyle is much more tedious.

He has pretty glaring and anti-fun downsides if you play him enough.

1. Constant decay might mechanic - only 2 characters in the game have this upkeep minigame on top of the survival loop, wolf and wanda. Of the 2, wanda has much more utility and time saving mechanics outside of combat. Something long world players would notice is that it's very anti-fun to deal with decay mechanics because it eats up your game time doing boring tasks. Imagine if you're watching a video and every 8 minutes you have to watch an ad for 15 seconds before continuing. For wanda's case, at least the ad is short. For wolf, it's a little longer. OP indeed.

2. Resource sink and slot hog. Similar to wanda, wolf has to permanently sacrifice at least one inventory slot to hold an emergency dumbell. On top of this, he would consume boards/gems/rocks on top of regular food to maintain might, both problems wigfrid doesnt have to deal with. Although, other characters do have this feature too - ala wendy flower.

3. Wimpy nerf. You'd think that wimpy isnt a real downside, until you've played through the first 20 days with him. In the early game when you're out exploring and dont have gold bells, its just more efficient to stay wimpy, and even fight spiders as wimpy since it takes time to get to mighty. There are also situational threats that will delay your next pump so you might be caught wimpy during a hound wave or during a nightmare phase.

4. Sanity downside. Play him long enough and you'll definitely notice this. Try clearing the werepigs on a full moon without getting chonked by nightmare creatures. Try fully mining statues in the ruins without frequently being interrupted by nightmares. Try fighting spiders without going insane, and spawning a spider queen because you had to go deal with nightmares. Problems wigfrid doesnt even care about. 

The ultimate resource in the game is time, and wolfgangs perks dont save him nearly as much time as they cost him compared to other characters. If they did, you'd see his pick rate soar. So i think it is in fact false to say that he will be massively better than the rest of the cast post-qol, not by a longshot.

[Spino43]

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This thread is highlighting beta patch notes and in those patch notes it details changes still being made to Wolfgang, therefore I am to assume that Klei wants him as a character in a good spot.

I think the the bigger reason is to fix the mess that is Wolfgang's initial rework. It was too awful compared to old Wolfgang.

11 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why on earth can Beefalo out do Wolfgang and something he is supposed to do?

Wolfgang has always been about dishing out insane amount of damage. The statue moving perk isn't his primary perk, of course he is not gonna be able to do it better than a beefalo.

 

12 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

But if you actually had to put just as much effort into using Beefalo as you do a Boat & Pinch Winch then Beefalo are no longer the ONLY Option.

Again, why must players go through the 15-20 days taming process just to be allowed to move heavy stuffs?

[lionking102]

3 hours ago, Primalflower said:

please revert the statue size !!

 

So I checked it again and for me the size is fine and hasn't changes. Are you playing the latest beta with no mods? 

[Primalflower]

1 minute ago, lionking102 said:

So I checked it again and for me the size is fine and hasn't changes. Are you playing the latest beta with no mods? 

look at how they look compared to the non-beta.

[Capybara007]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

There’s going to be a lot of upset kids who play this game when they find out the hound wave/depth worm wave bug has been patched.. But: This game was never meant to be a peaceful base building simulator, it is advertised & sold as an uncompromising survival game.

that is incorrect, dst is a survival sandbox, not a survival only game

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

There are options to turn certain features that may annoy you off.. Utilize it.

if the majority of the playerbase tends to disable a mechanic then that mechanic is bad, is that simple.

besides that the game itself should be balanced around default settings, its ok that it lets you "build your own adventure" or whatever, but a begineer needs to see the content as it is, with no changes, to actually start making their own decisions on what enable or disable

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I also expect the Lureplant/stagehand exploits to be fixed at this rate- loving every second of it. <3 good job Klei

if you ever questioned yourself why people dislike you here its because this attitude of being happy that something you are never gonna use or do its gone

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

In fact: maybe Klei should patch it so players can only put statues on a Beefalo once it’s been 100% tamed.. at least THEN early game use of Wolfgang’s carrying statues perk would be Useful.

at first i told you that you suggestion was the opposite of fun, now that i have more time let me explain it to you

the ability to quickly mount a beefalo to gather the pieces and fight the boss is great for people that like doing things at a fast pace, this is why beefalo bells and YotB in general had such good reception, it made beefalos much more manageable, useful, and objectively, fun (if you dont find them fun you cant argue they were better before)

but apparently this is wrong, you cannot do shadow pieces day 1-21, the idea itself of limiting the player to a specific character for a goal they want to achieve its just bad both on paper and in practique

you always say you would like more customization and options over the game's performance, like that one time you requested to have an option of "build near dragonfly's arena? yes/no" 

but now with this suggestion you are doing the opposite, just making the players that want to play the game differently have to choose only one option, to play wolfgang.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

But if Wolfgang’s perk is intended to make Wolfgang useful, it fails when people just rush Beefalo.

that is like saying "winona's crafting perk is not that interesting, lets make ALL the other characters craft 3 times slower so winona is more interesting and useful"

 

[lionking102]

18 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

look at how they look compared to the non-beta.

I have to say that I have trouble spotting the difference. But maybe I'm just not good at this. One Screenshot is Beta, one is not-Beta

[Primalflower]

3 minutes ago, lionking102 said:

I have to say that I have trouble spotting the difference. But maybe I'm just not good at this. One Screenshot is Beta, one is not-Beta

 

I think i might be going crazy ... ? I remember putting the twins statue in a pinchin' winch and they looked ... normal .. ? ? i really could have sworn, like as much as I can muster through text, that it was different, but now im not sure.

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, lionking102 said:

I'm fine with Wolfgang both, Wolfgang loosing mightyness or not when getting hit. But I don't really like the much higher passive drain. That doesn't add any challenge or downside and is just a bit annoying when doing stuff in the base. 

Yeah after playing this update for a bit it's become clear that this new drain is weird. It's slow enough where it doesn't really affect him at all in combat or work since he gains way, way more than he loses so it's just like a nerf to his piggyback boon.

[chaosmonkey]

29 minutes ago, zarklord_klei said:

The difference is a lot of people were effectively using that bug as a way to turn hounds off, without actually turning hounds off, IE. if they don't like the hounds mechanic(and they were using that bug as a way to turn it off, without it actually being off), turn it off, if you want to offer suggestions to improve the mechanic, then please do, we want to improve the hound wave mechanic, and we felt fixing bugs and cleaning up how it works to be consistent was the first step.

I won't go into details about my idea to make fire hounds more like ice hounds since Glermz already covered it. I will mention though that the mechanic to "hide in the caves" until the hound wave passes is on point thematically -- the player hears hounds approaching and goes to hide instead of fighting them until they pass. It would be great if that part of the mechanic remained while disallowing simple server disconnects. This allows the player to plan for either a kill zone or nearby hiding place. I realize this might be difficult because they were the same underlying cause, but the hiding strategy is fun.

One other thing that I've seen discussed a bunch is having some way to influence the hound waves potentially via a mini boss, some sort of late game item, etc. that would potentially give the player control over when the hound waves spawn or preventing spawns all together by intentionally seeking out such a miniboss.

[JazzyGames]

How about adding other options to hide from hounds? Perhaps if you hide somewhere for long enough there's a chance that the hounds will just run off and despawn. Might add a cool creepy horror element to the workflow of survival.

Aside from that I would advocate for an option to turn off any mobs such as red hounds that can cause massive amounts of damage to builds in the late game. I like having to deal with hound waves every 4 days or so, and I would happily consider fighting them toe-to-toe more often if I wasn't constantly worried about fires.

[Cassielu]

I'm not sure why raincoats are removed from the "summer item" category when other rain gear is still a summer item. Is it because raincoats keep you warm? The warmth of clothes doesn't actually work when the world is hot, it doesn't make harder to cool down in summer.