Ocean Content Concepts

[Cassielu]

A sea cave suitable for nesting for large creatures, such as Quraken or Biigfoot.

It's a submerged merm city so great that its exposed roofs and towers form a unique biome.

You can walk on the roof and enter the building through the tower.

[HumanBean150]

1 minute ago, Cassielu said:

A sea cave suitable for nesting for large creatures, such as Quraken or Biigfoot.

It's a submerged merm city so great that its exposed roofs and towers form a unique biome.

You can walk on the roof and enter the building through the tower.

I love this idea!

I especially like the concept of the merms being pseudo-mermaids or sea creatures.

also, this would be an excuse for them to swim, which should make a lot of Wurt players happy.

[MikoFanboy]

 

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

The ocean has the potential to be interesting BECAUSE it has different mechanics than the land. Otherwise, it would just be re-skinned land.

Every idea I’ve suggested goes completely against this, a gigantic stationary Sea Turtle Island that Periodically raises above and lowers into the the water forcing You to have to run to something on this island that is going to float instead of Sink with it would be new and not just more “re-skinned land”

Going to an Arctic freezing temperate zone where the land is a frozen over block of ice where players, enemies, food items knocked out of trees, etc all slide about on the slippery Ice would be NEW.

Having a new jungle biome where the player can “climb” tree vines up to higher locations and “leap” between tree vine to tree vine like you can in MAX Curse of Brotherhood would be NEW and not just reskinned land. In fact the “leap between vine to vine animation is already in the game when hopping onto or off a boat..

Diving underwater and being able to swim about fighting aquatic mobs like that one cool Mod shows promise for would be NEW not just reskinned land.

A brand new desert biome in a distant land where the ground is made of quick sand and you slowly sink into it the longer you stand still having to break free of the sand like being Frozen by Deerclops would be “NEW”

Thats your problem, that’s everyone’s problem- Aside from a change in ground color and maybe the mobs that spawn in that area- there’s no difference between the Beefalo Savannah and “insert any other land area here”

Huge changes are coming to this game franchise someday, do not ask me how I know, I can just feel it in my bones.. and it may not come with DST… but it will certainly lay the foundation down for its future.

Being constrained and limited to staying on a stationary wooden boat platform can only have so many “New Ideas” before it starts feeling like copy and paste of what’s already been done.

So yes New and interesting LANDS > Staying on the Boat that can only do so much.

40 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

A sea cave suitable for nesting for large creatures, such as Quraken or Biigfoot.

It's a submerged merm city so great that its exposed roofs and towers form a unique biome.

You can walk on the roof and enter the building through the tower.

Getting off the boat at all- automatically turns it into new Land content- Otherwise.. cool concept.

[MikoFanboy]

  

8 hours ago, Hornete said:

It amazes me that instead of thinking "Oh, how can we improve the combat on sea to still be unique in it's own way but feel much better?" you automatically default to "Oh lets just make it exactly like land in everyway"

For once we have a boss whose combat is like no boss we've seen before, where instead of attacking the player directly, it attacks the vehicle the player is on. I of course, am talking about the Crab King. Now, this guy sucks! But he's got a good concept going! I really like the idea of a boss that doesn't directly attack the player, so let's improve on that concept! Why make him to be like any other boss we've seen before, that's pretty boring isn't it

ok, so how can we improve the combat on sea with the cookie boat?

both the combat on that coockie boat and the combat on SW boat exist

one don't work very well and one does, so isn't it more logical to go with the one that work?

7 hours ago, HumanBean150 said:

I think that the dislike for the ocean features comes from people using them exclusively as a means to get to the resources that the oceans provide. 

 

7 hours ago, HumanBean150 said:

The oceans are designed around living there for a while: that's why the boats are big and can have structures placed on them, that's why there are so many food sources in the ocean, and why there is renewability for a lot of important resources in the ocean.

so what? I have to use it to live at the ocean for a while yet not suppose to use it to get to the resources that the oceans provide?

so I have to debug spawn the resources to live? 

I do like the way it allow us to build a mini base that can move around in the ocean BUT my problem is that the game want it to do more, it want the boat to enter combat while it's design does not work well with the combat

for ocean exploring, if the biome is designed around the cookie boat, every thing must be place far away to allow the boat to move and it can't be fully decorated with more detail stuff 

6 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

Ocean in dont starve together already has mechanics that are adapted to their boats, now tell me

that's exactly the problem everything being designed around the boat when it is the boat that need to be designed for the ocean

6 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

How are cookie cutters gonna work with sw boats

give it more attack move? 

6 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

how are the sea weeds projectiles gonna work,

how does it not work?! bishop Sealnado Floaty Boaty Knight exsit, learn from that (and improve the IA of course)

6 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

how is the malbatross fight gonna work

Tigershark and Sealnado exsit, learn from that

6 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

how even the crab king fight gonna work

keep the add gem mechanic but redesign the boss fight, I don't have to mention that he is the worst boss in the game right now, right? so a redesign is a need anyway

quacken exsit, learn from that

the key word is learn from that, not copy that 

6 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

how are you supposed to use a pinch n winch,

my idea are up there, we keep both type of boat and expand on what they good as, so pinch n winch can still be used

 

[Dextops]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Every idea I’ve suggested goes completely against this, a gigantic stationary Sea Turtle Island that Periodically raises above and lowers into the the water forcing You to have to run to something on this island that is going to float instead of Sink with it would be new and not just more “re-skinned land”

Going to an Arctic freezing temperate zone where the land is a frozen over block of ice where players, enemies, food items knocked out of trees, etc all slide about on the slippery Ice would be NEW.

Having a new jungle biome where the player can “climb” tree vines up to higher locations and “leap” between tree vine to tree vine like you can in MAX Curse of Brotherhood would be NEW and not just reskinned land. In fact the “leap between vine to vine animation is already in the game when hopping onto or off a boat..

i think the problem with all of these suggestions is that they could all just be done on the mainland (other than the ice berg) instead of being out on the ocean

[QuQuasar]

I like the already-suggested idea of a smol!Boat for weaving your way between salt stacks. Salt is an amazing resource, and the fact that it isn't widely used despite having the ability to reverse spoilage speaks volumes about how much of a grind it is to collect.

Sea fishing. Has the opposite problem: the mechanics might be fun, but the reward is little more than a very inefficient and time consuming way to get food. A few idea's:

* Fish should drop variable amounts of fish meat based on weight. Obviously, this has been suggested before. Getting 2 drops for above-average fish and 3 for the heaviest would make fishing more rewarding and the weighted lure much more valuable.
* Give us some crafting recipes that use fish, to provide some non-food reasons to catch fish that aren't Ice Bream or Sunfish.
    * Fish hat. 4 small fish + kelp. Immunizes you to sanity loss from wetness.
    * Fish suit. 4 large fish + Rope. Armour that has infinite durability, but spoils. Like the ham bat, the protection provided is proportional to freshness.
    * Fish farm. 2 vegefish + rocks + manure. A small farm structure you can build on a boat. Grows a single normal vegetable if you plant a seed, or a single giant vegetable if you plant a vegefish.
    * Fish effigy. 4 large fish + 4 beard hair + 4 boards. Prevents you from dropping items and losing max health when you drown, but breaks when doing so.
* Some more useful fish types would be appreciated.
   * Scary fish. Found in very deep water. Drains sanity while in your inventory, but gives a sanity boost when murdered.
   
Boat upgrades. The boat's fragility and expense encourages a very cautious approach to boating. For me it's dangerous to have more than a single sail open when exploring in unknown waters. So... upgrades.

* Boat armour. Straightforward. Increases max health and reduces the chance of leaks.
* Boattering Ram. A contraption that points in the direction of travel and breaks sea stacks without damaging the boat.
* Boat shield. Prevents the rockjaw and strider spiders from boarding your boat.

Teamwork. Boats are already pretty cool for multiple players, but I think I've got an idea to make it even better: a crows nest. Installed on a mast, climbing up into it it would cause the camera out to pull out further than default. Clicking on things while in the crows nest will cause their character to point them out to other players, who would see an icon and arrow on the edge of their screen so they can steer around it or weigh anchor before it comes into sight for the.

Also, players in the crows nest would definitely need to do the sailing emote from Shipwrecked whenever the boat is moving. This is probably the most important part of this suggestion.

[Mike23Ua]

4 minutes ago, Dextops said:

i think the problem with all of these suggestions is that they could all just be done on the mainland (other than the ice berg) instead of being out on the ocean

The intention is to give people places to sail to so they actually spend more time out at sea.. check the above Charlie’s fortress image I posted- players will need to traverse while on the boat through hostile Water biomes with ocean mobs, to eventually reach the area of the fortress that IS Accessible by boat.

The TL:DR- Make boating Content work WITH New Land Biomes instead of doing update after update that only adds new Boat content stuff.

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Every idea I’ve suggested goes completely against this.....

...

TL, DR much of it, just skimmed through...

...

...Being constrained and limited to staying on a stationary wooden boat platform can only have so many “New Ideas” before it starts feeling like copy and paste of what’s already been done.

I wasn't even replying to your comment. I was making an argument against shipwrecked boats. Why do you have to be so self-involved?

I'm not even against more islands and more island mechanics. Or against any other stuff you said - your ideas are pretty cool, (although, the programming of most of them would be incredibly involved, so they are never going to happen probably). But why did you reply to me with this? It has nothing to do with the older simpler sailing mechanics of shipwrecked.

[HumanBean150]

started talking about islands, but it got a bit lengthy. The short version is:

Islands should be ways to incorporate interesting biomes that don't work with the mainland. It would be interesting to have each island have an issue which requires preparation off of the island.

I don't think personally that islands should be considered in any discussion of ocean features: both to keep the ocean unique in its gameplay and to give it interesting things to do while at sea, and also to be able to expand on the islands without being limited by the oceans.

[Mike23Ua]

3 hours ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

I wasn't even replying to your comment. I was making an argument against shipwrecked boats. Why do you have to be so self-involved?

I'm not even against more islands and more island mechanics. Or against any other stuff you said - your ideas are pretty cool, (although, the programming of most of them would be incredibly involved, so they are never going to happen probably). But why did you reply to me with this? It has nothing to do with the older simpler sailing mechanics of shipwrecked.

Simple misunderstanding I guess, sorry- I thought you all wanted more content that could only be interacted with on the surface of the boat cookie- and it’s fine to have a LITTLE of that, but ultimately designing everything with the intention you the player will be on this wooden platform leaves only a limited number of things they can do.

I DEFIANTLY do NOT Want back the Shipwrecked boats- the only exceptions would be Allowing Wurt to Swim and if Walani was added to the game.

However- because I’ve been playing ALOT of Wurt lately I’ve noticed where world Gen completely screws her over- for some reason: (other then Wigfrids useless fireproof scroll) no other characters kit requires ocean resources.. & Wurts Royal Tapestry craft requires 20- not 10 or 5 But 20 Kelp.. and that results in ALOT of sailing around- I actually had to fully build a boat and sail around with the sole purpose of collecting 20 Kelp before they all spoiled.. it’s annoying, but what’s even MORE annoying is world Gen spawn tiny streams you can’t fit the boat cookie into, with Kelp just out of reach.. It’s in times like this that we want to Scream and pull our hair out in Frustration the Seafishing rod can’t fish this out- the Unimplemented Trawl net would’ve helped here but it was scrapped for whatever reason.. And people think getting tiny Rafts to row down these little streams would break the current boating mechanics- It wouldn’t… these “tiny rafts” would get destroyed trying to do anything the large boat is designed for.
 

[MikoFanboy]

48 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

 

irrelevant question but.. why does the walking cane skin look like that :v the glowing light should be behind the gem

 

[Mike23Ua]

9 minutes ago, MikoFanboy said:

irrelevant question but.. why does the walking cane skin look like that :v the glowing light should be behind the gem

 

It’s a bug on the Xbox One version of the game that’s been there for a very long time, we have all reported it in the bug tracker but.. it doesn’t seem to be important enough maybe someday though!

ima borrow the image and re-bug report. Thanks!

[goblinball]

15 hours ago, MikoFanboy said:

that's exactly the problem everything being designed around the boat when it is the boat that need to be designed for the ocean

I don’t understand this take tbh. The world is an extension of the character and should be designed to act as a playground perfectly for your character, or in this case, boat. Character controls go first, then you design the world around your character. Plus, I think the current cookie boats are designed for the ocean, and I’d say they are designed pretty well.

 

15 hours ago, MikoFanboy said:

the key word is learn from that, not copy that 

I like how you didn’t actually answer anyone’s questions and just said “do what SW does!!!!” When the whole problem is that these encounters don’t do what SW does.

[Hornete]

15 hours ago, MikoFanboy said:

ok, so how can we improve the combat on sea with the cookie boat?

both the combat on that coockie boat and the combat on SW boat exist

one don't work very well and one does, so isn't it more logical to go with the one that work?

You don't even sound you like even gave a thought on how DST boat combat could be improved, you just went straight away to "ok add SW boats" in not even more than 3 sentences.

Please, I insist that you try to be a bit more creative, game design is a tough task! I can understand if it's hard for you to think of how DST boats can be improved, it's why so much content can be cut from the game, because some things are just problematic and don't work. There's so many questions you need to answer for yourself when creating new content and thinking about how it can work. So again, I can completely understand if it's very tough for you to think of something.

For me, one of the problems right now with boat combat and just them in general is 1. Not enough leak repairing options (Currently you have to get a land exclusive item, that being stingers to ensure you have a way to repair leaks) It's oddly limiting even after two years of the ocean existing we've only gotten one more healing option, that being tree jam, which I do really like mid/late-game but I still feel we need lots more, just like how we have a lot of healing options for the players themselves! and 2. It can be hard to manuever a boat all by yourself, hence why I suggested we could get a new type of mob, or a new ability to existing mobs(pigmen, etc) where they can help you row or perform certain boat actions! Not only could this really help with bosses like Malbatross and especially Crab King, but it can be a really nice addition of flavor to the ocean if it's a brand new mob. 

So again, I really ask you to be just a bit more creative, think of how the current content can be improved. Boats were improved by so much in Waterlogged, that some of my friends use exclusively oars to sail around because of the controlability and buffed speeds, I think theyre a bit insane to use only oars, but they are really amazing in controllability so I can understand. Whether you like it or not, every piece of ocean content has been designed around the cookie boats. Not SW boats, but cookie boats. Klei is not going to waste essentially 2+ years of time designing content around cookie boats to then add SW boats. It's an extremely unreasonable thing to ask for. I'm not perfect, I don't have all the best ideas, but I think you can atleast try to think of how content can be improved in it's basic state instead of going to the extreme and asking for a completely different sailing mechanic in an ocean that has been designed completely around the cookie boats.

[TheMelonNinja]

I want bioluminescence and jellyfish from Shipwrecked because they made the waters look soooo pretty. Seriously, the ocean in Shipwrecked is downright gorgeous.

[Mantispidae]

Honestly I just want there to be less dead space and sea stacks 

With land biomes you get the benefit of a direct transition, you leave one biome you're in another already and can get the new resources. Ocean has a lot of "get to point to point" with lots of dead space where you maybe have kelp and some rocks, and it makes it feel a lot worse than it is just because any time you spend getting to one of the "zones" is pretty much dead time with no interest. Of course, this is mostly a result of it being a new thing they haven't filled out, but it makes the whole thing feel emptier than a rock biome.

Waterlogged biome is a great start (and a great pun) for something that feels a lot more like a proper biome, especially when compared to things like the salt or barnacle zones. The latter feel more like set pieces in the ocean while the waterlogged location actually almost feels like a proper thing. More of that would be great!

I think another thing is that these locations are VERY small compared to say, a birchnut forest, and to a degree thats fair because the ocean is pretty small compared to the mainland map. But it would be nice to see an ocean biome that actually spreads for more than a screen two, maybe like a big and small version so there is variety between locations. 

Lot of this is stuff that will get fixed over time but it stands out as a big downside of the ocean to me. Everything feels like a set piece with resources rather than environments, and the "non environment" parts are remarkably dull. Too much of "living on the ocean" is just looking for one of the good spots cause you already know the bulk of it is nothing. Maybe it needs something like the ballpin dolphin dens- something more consistent but not tied to a specific location the way things like grass gators and sea weeds are

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

22 minutes ago, Hornete said:

Boats were improved by so much in Waterlogged, that some of my friends use exclusively oars to sail around because of the controlability and buffed speeds, I think theyre a bit insane to use only oars, but they are really amazing in controllability so I can understand.

Yeah, that's what i do. The driftwod oars are enough for most tasks.

I went on a journey with another guy with him being on his own boat with 2 masts and he had problems keeping up with me. Granted, it's becouse he was alone on his boat and not very skilled at it yet, but still... All you need is 4 planks for boat and 1 driftwood.

And i don't even talk about the malbatross bill. Which, when it's almost broken, you can craft the better watering can and deconstruct it for brand new bill.

For me, if you are traveling alone, oars are the way to go. If there is a bigger crew on board, I'd go with steering wheel and masts.

[Mike23Ua]

How to improve boats- Allow the crafting of smaller boats “rafts” that can be moved with an Oar paddle like the large boat.

“Why give us rafts?” To fit down tiny streams boat cookies will not as was shown in my above video example where kelp was just out of her reach..

But “Won’t that defeat the entire purpose of the current boat & won’t that effect things that are designed for current boat?”

No- because while on a raft your in a tinier platform with no room to place any structures, you can not fight at sea mobs on this raft (like RockJaw or Cookie cutters) It’s small and therefore should have less health then the current boat. It should ALSO Unlike current boats.. slowly take damage over time needing repairs (like they worked in Shipwrecked)

To Clarify in to a nice TL:DR- Shipwrecked Rafts but with CURRENT Rowing Mechanics.

A boat with 50 HP that a single cookie cutter will demolish… there are WAYS for both this large base thing and Smaller rafts to Co-exist.

Another thing that would greatly increase my enjoyment of “Boats” is if they would actually implement that unimplemented Sea Net that can be thrown out to catch and pull in things just out of reach..

”but wouldn’t this make adding smaller rafts to the game at all pointless?”

Not really no… because like with most things in this game- you start with an item intended to do a certain thing and then you get a better item that does that thing better. Torch<Lantern<Mining Hat, Science<Alchemy<Prestihatitator.

If Klei is worried people will attempt to use the little rafts to do things designed for the bigger boat.. simply make it not even an option-

Let for example Cookie Cutters eat your small raft the moment you go into the biome, but as many small streams with useful things I can’t reach in them that I’ve experienced-

We either need a small raft or a throwable fishing net.

Not having to Slowly paddle your large boat or raise/lower masts and drop/raise anchor to get just a little bit of lose resources scattered on the ocean would DRASTICALLY improve my enjoyment of the Ocean- because for now rowing that large slow moving boat or trying to operate Masts/Anchors to get something you could’ve just used a smaller raft or thrown a net out to “Fetch”

Frustrates me to pure hades and back again.

[Capybara007]

But how is that fun, mike

[firoborn]

The things we need from SW is the sealnados howling conch and the iron wind.

The latter can be a Steering Wheel upgrade so it only activates while you are on the wheel, like the oars that only move the boat while you are paddling the iron wind will only activate while you are steering.

[Mike23Ua]

52 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

But how is that fun, mike

It’s not for fun.. it’s for convenience.

No matter how hard you try you will never ever EVER be able to get the current boat into a stream that’s smaller then it- yet valuable resources you can currently only get WHILE ON THIS BOAT (unless the resource is close enough to land to interact with) spawn in these streams & can not be gathered at all.
I highly suggest you Rewatch this Clip-

 

If you need a “for fun” example why we need smaller rafts because- for all you know Klei could have plans to add an Archipelago world Gen setting to our worlds, which would THEN mean those smaller rafts you state we “do not need” would then become MANDATORY Requirements- in the occasion where the biome you spawn in doesn’t provide enough resources to build a fully decked out boat cookie.

You would use these smaller rafts until you could craft the bigger, faster moving Boat Cookie.

The Rafts- would function just like boat cookies do now requiring an OAR and to be rowed in the direction your wanting to go in.. but instead of needing 4 planks, you only need 2 wood and maybe 1 rope.

The rafts would be used for getting into small streams the boat cookie will never fit into without Mods.. and they would be so weak and slow (degrading over time even..) that you’ll want to build the larger boat when possible.

But the raft would be GREAT for small streams or gathering lose resources without needing to drop anchors turn sails etc.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

 

 

for that we have this item , so you can reach that few resources 

[Mike23Ua]

I should also mention that Klei Dev team has been making games for many many years, they aren’t noobs, they’re not making dumb decisions.. they KNOW what they are doing.. AND they intentionally designed the newest Water Logged Biome so you need to “Ram” the Boat into the tree.. A feature that most obviously a tiny little wooden raft would be completely incapable of even doing.

So there is room for both boat types to co-exist for the reasons I described above with small streams or Achipelago world settings- without one boat completely replacing the other.

As far as ocean content goes I want new and very interesting islands I can get off the boat & explore on foot, but on the way there- new things to encounter while out at sea.. like aquatic mobs or ocean resources, or things like Water Logged places designed with the intention you will sail past or through often on your way from Point A to Point B.

I would absolutely love a Klei spin on the famous “Bermuda Triangle”, just an area out in the sea that is slam full of mysteriously sunken ships a “Watery Grave” Biome if you want to call it that. With Erie green fog, ominous glow, weird sounds.. wrecked ships that have been covered in moss or kelp to indicate they’ve been out there for a very very long time:

Could have restless spirits spawn from ships lost at sea.. or even a brand new unique mob or two.. and of course- whatever’s causing all those ships to become mysteriously wrecked  

[Masked Koopa]

Ok but can they add smaller pancake boats? It’s kind of annoying that some bodies of water are just inaccessible.

 

(Also let wurt swim please)