Space Materials

[DimaB77]

This blog was created in response to a heated discussion of an article. In it, one of the users (degr), expressed the opinion - it is necessary to use the termium, as it should be in the number of tons of any user.

According to steam statistics, only 3.6% of players have launched the first rocket. The first! Steam! Rocket!

Less than half of them made it to the petroleum-powered rocket and were able to bring anything from space. How many players were able to make the thermium and apply it correctly, we don't know. Maybe 0.1%. Probably less.

That's not good, and it's certainly not bad. It's just a game. And you shouldn't turn it into a kind of test or exam. You shouldn't puff your cheeks up like you have a Ph.D. in ONI.

The site is full of very complicated articles, the kind that I wouldn't even try to replicate on a real base. But any scheme should be done with the simplest materials in mind, where possible. Otherwise, there is a risk that you created it just for yourself, and it will be repeated by 0.001% or even less.

What do you think?

[degr]

5 minutes ago, DimaB77 said:

Otherwise, there is a risk that you created it just for yourself, and it will be repeated by 0.001% or even less.

I'm completely agree that it is not fair, when you repeat degr-o-build, and did not get achievement. Think it would be very smart if Klei add some kind of AI, which will compare patterns of your local builds with degr-o-build, and set amount of degr-o-points. Of course, you will never win in degr-o-rating, because degr will be always first one. But it is a big honor even try to do something similar.

[Steve8]

There are many games where half the people don't even have the most simple achievements you get right away. ONI is no exception. Only 60% have a bed and toilet for each dupe. Less than 50% got outside the starting biome. Only 25% used automation wires. And only 13% made it down to the oil biome. So it's not rockets themselves that are the problem.

As for rockets. In the base game space is a huge hurdle. That's true. In Spaced Out on the other hand they are much more accessible.

[DimaB77]

14 minutes ago, degr said:

I'm completely agree that it is not fair, when you repeat degr-o-build, and did not get achievement. Think it would be very smart if Klei add some kind of AI, which will compare patterns of your local builds with degr-o-build, and set amount of degr-o-points. Of course, you will never win in degr-o-rating, because degr will be always first one. But it is a big honor even try to do something similar.

I did not say that your opinion is wrong. My answer to a very frequent discussion is whether to use space materials or to do with conventional ones.

Are you talking about me, or about those who read you and build circuits from your notes? Put in a ranking of your circuits?

Spoiler

Either way, erase it. It's disgraceful.

 

[blueberry pi]

I got to petroleum rockets *looks back at, what?, 40 colonies before* got myself a oily asteroid with fullerene in the 2000 Km mark, launched my rocket with a cargo and what do i get, 2.98 Kg of fullerene, two rounds of super coolant, the rest 0.98 only reminds me of the force of gravity 9.8 m/s2.

liquid oxygen is forming, the cooling loop it's half filled, research is almost done, one rocket, changed many times got me to this point, there is already a shield of bunker tiles in space, no solar, no space scanner, only eye, a switch and the door.

space is hard, it's a long wait and can be harsh.

 

all times the most simple solutions that work are the best ones, getting rare resources, not so simple.

[sakura_sk]

5 hours ago, DimaB77 said:

only 3.6% of players

Right.. statistics...

3.6% out of which players? The ones that purchased the game? That would be something over 72.000 people (just counting the 2mil copies since 2019). The current count of players in game is around 10.000 (on average though..)

Should we assume that everyone currently playing the game has already launched a rocket?  

No, we shouldn't. But that's what "statistics" would tell you I guess...

 

As for space materials : They just make your play time easier. Insulated pipes and tiles that don't allow changing of temperature(mostly), proper vertical liquid lock and non overheating buildings(unless you play with magma).

[babba]

9 hours ago, Steve8 said:

There are many games where half the people don't even have the most simple achievements you get right away. ONI is no exception. Only 60% have a bed and toilet for each dupe. Less than 50% got outside the starting biome. Only 25% used automation wires. And only 13% made it down to the oil biome. So it's not rockets themselves that are the problem.

As for rockets. In the base game space is a huge hurdle. That's true. In Spaced Out on the other hand they are much more accessible.

280 beds in my colony ? Takes too much space in the big map. Need stackable micro beds to save m3² !

[JRup]

@babba should try cubicle hotel design principle:

 

[babba]

Locker Number 543

[DimaB77]

6 hours ago, sakura_sk said:

Right.. statistics...

3.6% out of which players?

Don't like the official statistics? OK. I'll give you my own, admin statistics...

According to website statistics, the most read articles are the easiest ones: getting oxygen, water, etc. No one wants a scheme for 100 turbines or 1000 voles.

Under one of the articles a user writes, "Describe what you need AT. I have been playing for a long time, never had them".  In another article I explained why mafic tile is better than granite. Under each article on reddit you'll find comments like, "Great article. But I didn't get it."

The fact that there are gathered here 10 ... 20 people who know the mechanics of the game thoroughly, does not mean anything. It's a drop in the ocean. There are thousands, tens of thousands of people in the game who can never get a thermium, etc.

Nevertheless, they enjoy the game and their little victories. To ignore them is silly. Thinking you're smarter than others is even worse.

[sakura_sk]

8 minutes ago, DimaB77 said:

No one wants a scheme for 100 turbines or 1000 voles.

I would say you are just assuming but maybe that's how many people who want to do that would search answers in wiki.

13 minutes ago, DimaB77 said:

The fact that there are gathered here 10 ... 20 people who know the mechanics of the game thoroughly, does not mean anything. It's a drop in the ocean.

You are dropping external links to a forum where there were hundreds of discussions over the years and extended articles about everything (most probably) and 10-20 of those people still frequent the forum. Yes, its a drop in the ocean and you decided to poke it.

19 minutes ago, DimaB77 said:

Nevertheless, they enjoy the game and their little victories. To ignore them is silly. Thinking you're smarter than others is even worse.

I don't think anyone in the forums is ignoring new players (if that is what you are saying). Although between 2 and 2000 hours of play, yes, of course there is  gap. Not "getting smarter" but understanding the game mechanics better for sure. If two people, one that played 2 hours and the other 2000, would answer your post, the first one would understand nothing (most probably) discussing how this and that was built and the second one would discuss how there are a million other things you could do. You expect only the first one to answer but not the second one?

44 minutes ago, DimaB77 said:

Don't like the official statistics?

I don't like generalisations

[babba]

2 hours ago, DimaB77 said:

...

There are thousands, tens of thousands of people in the game who can never get a thermium, etc.

As a little note on Thermium - As example I never had Thermium because I restarted fresh again and again to play new dlc stuff in survival mode.

Playing extensively with the focus on often building 1 solid mega base first, in survival mode, every time i came to +1000 cycles I decided to snatch up and play a new update...As core game elements of the old base games were long time missing for me in the new base game ( the dlc ).

Another example, I haven`t launched or built a steam rocket once - Although I played rockets for 100s of hours - My aim is always Petro rockets ( currently ). With all the fresh map play starts I never focused time on trying other rockets. I`m a Petro rocket expert ( I have 20 fuel refinery DJ`s, I prefer dupes doing manual industrial work than building an oil cooker ), with hundreds of stacked petro rocket launches, I still have no clue of the new rocket cargo system and still haven`t have not used several new rockets cargo components even once.

So many reasons why people do or don`t do certain things, one of my  reasons is for example the fps battle with 300 dupe mega size bases and lots of dupe operated industrial buildings. I do 0.1% automation ( I`m an automation noob - I adore the guy who built a cpu in the old base game ), never really came to automation with all the fresh game restarts and focused on other fun things first...which I like to do and play. My focus is more on city infrastructure building in the beginning of a save file.Once Klei has wrapped up the DLC1 and does not ( perhaps @Ipsquiggle) bork DLC1 save game with DLC2, then I would so love to do more and other things in my ONI "final save game mega base(s)".

The game content and its development history is complex, players have their reasons - Especial playing in survival mode. There is also lots of players which have only doodled around in the game for 1-40 hours in the game. That doesn`t mean they find the game bad or something serious wrong with the game - There is a zillion other good games to doodle and peek around on the market. For a game doodler the first rocket can be something which he never experiences, depending on the Doodler and Klei`s rocket implementation ease - Imagine yourself as a new player...You have got one million buttons and interfaces, can do a zillion things, it can be overwhelming and/or amazing for beginners of the game. Some Doodlers come back to a game title after weeks, months or years and may doodle around again in ONI or become ONI casuals or ONI hardcore players.

ONI is good value for the price IMHO, perfect for doodlers of good games. Of course easy game accessibility, usability, fps performance and understanding what things to do in the game is important for the masses, otherwise there often is no masses playing a game.

FUN fact: Although a mega big fan of of the fat reactor in the game and I`m dying since half a year to build one for the first time...and it is only a few clicks away to build and practically use for me ( since quite a while in my last save ), I`m still time focusing on other projects and zones in my latest big mac map dlc save. If I get in to reactors, it shall be Factorio Fukushima style and in "the final save" - I have the fear that "a final save" will never be long term compatible tough `` Man, I`m dying for my first reactor(s) !

@Gurgel @sakura_sk @JRup friendly invite to show off your game time to the world Guilty of invite pinging ! Dah !

[JRup]

37 minutes ago, babba said:

So many reasons why people do or don`t do certain things, one of my  reasons is for example the fps battle with 300 dupe mega size bases and lots of dupe operated industrial buildings. I do 0.1% automation ( I`m an automation noob - I adore the guy who built a cpu in the old base game ), never really came to automation with all the fresh game restarts and focused on other fun things first...

Keep the automation simple and it will save your bacon... Then if you start to get really into it, you start looking into studying logic and then it starts getting out of hand...

38 minutes ago, babba said:

frendly invite to show off your game time to the world

I've been slacking lately, but I just can't find inspiration lately ...

[crbd115]

10 hours ago, sakura_sk said:

Right.. statistics...

3.6% out of which players? The ones that purchased the game? That would be something over 72.000 people (just counting the 2mil copies since 2019). The current count of players in game is around 10.000 (on average though..)

Should we assume that everyone currently playing the game has already launched a rocket?  

No, we shouldn't. But that's what "statistics" would tell you I guess..

Yea and then theres the people who own the game and just haven't gotten around to playing it yet included in that number.

[NeoDeusMachina]

- and there are those who did the achievement but have purposefully or accidently turned on debug mode at some point in their game for whatever reason and the steam achievements did not register even if they actually did it. Happened to me before, happened to others I know. So truly, there isn't a lot we can say based on global steam achievement statistics.

[Lacero]

I'm a bit over 1000 hours and I've never had thermium.  I made super coolant once, but not very much as I remember.

[Hjoyn]

8 hours ago, DimaB77 said:

Nevertheless, they enjoy the game and their little victories. To ignore them is silly. Thinking you're smarter than others is even worse.

To ignore any portion of the playerbase is silly. That applies to everyone, equally. 

[Tranoze]

2 hours ago, Hjoyn said:

To ignore any portion of the playerbase is silly. That applies to everyone, equally. 

But first you need to define what playerbase is, who heard the game? who downloaded the game? who played the game atleast 1 minute? 1 hour? 10 hours? 100 hours?...
Some people just bought the game via bundle, steam sale.. ect, and dont play it, i dont consider them to be included in player base.
Some people start the game, play it for 30 secs, and think it not the right game for them, and never play it again, i also dont consider them to be in player base. It fine that there are people like and dont like the game, or see it fit them.

I agree that space material require way too much time to get, space mission last from 3 mins 20 sec to around 10 hours, 10 ***** in real life hours, for you to complete space mission. They shouldnt be too easy to be obtain by any mean, but lock them behind mindless timer is quite bad.

[Gurgel]

10 hours ago, babba said:

@Gurgel @sakura_sk @JRup friendly invite to show off your game time to the world Guilty of invite pinging ! Dah !

To be fair, I like to let the game run overnight once the base has longer-term survivability. So I probably was only 20-30% of that time actually paying attention to ONI.

That said, the DLC is shaping up very nicely IMO. Some people have valid, well-reasoned complaints and they are being addressed. The usual habitual complainers complain using the usual complaints, but what else is new? Some people think the universe has to conform to _their_ wishes, because, obviously, they have the truth, right? Well, those people usually understand far less than others, but countless games have been ruined by them screaming louder and devs being stupid enough to listen. I do not think there is any risk of that happening with ONI. A rather spectacular response by JoeW recently to somebody claiming to know "the right way" to do games (but that person really was just referring basically meaningless theory in a failed attempt to appear superior) made that amply clear:

 

[DimaB77]

I have nothing to brag about. Steam glitched and I downloaded a "different" version, although I bought the game. (but all my readers I'm urged to support the developers (they certainly deserve it) and publish news about discounts)

Therefore, my achievements = 0

[gabberworld]

On 7/16/2021 at 3:24 AM, JRup said:

@babba should try cubicle hotel design principle:

 

if talk about that, i was planned todo something like this with rocked capsules in dlc, but how gas is handled inside rocked , i skipped that idea

[babba]

1 hour ago, gabberworld said:

if talk about that, i was planned todo something like this with rocked capsules in dlc, but how gas is handled inside rocked , i skipped that idea

There was a thread about ideas of Cryo beds, those would be perfect to bed stack lots of dupes in a frozen state, inside rockets.

-273 Celsius inside the entire rocket would be great

[gabberworld]

15 minutes ago, babba said:

There was a thread about ideas of Cryo beds, those would be perfect to bed stack lots of dupes in a frozen state, inside rockets.

-273 Celsius inside the entire rocket would be great

we to have that in dlc, now we need the opportunity build those self to inside rocked and dupes can go inside

[gabberworld]

in Passengers movie one dupe release the other dupe and man she was mad when she found that out. there was not possible go sleep again. but they talked that you need the equipment for todo that, maybe new tool idea for dlc?