Regolith clearing

[DimaB77]

Several regolith clearing schemes

[gabberworld]

26 minutes ago, DimaB77 said:

Several regolith clearing schemes

yeah, i have similar setup build at bottom rocket, but no magma made because i use that heat for the steam turbines 

[DimaB77]

Yes, it is not the best and easiest use of regolith or rocket. But it fits for completeness (degr suggested an article about regolith).

And by the way, if any of the options I missed, hint.

[Tranoze]

2 hours ago, DimaB77 said:

And by the way, if any of the options I missed, hint.

All your current option are quite bad, robo miner are too stack and regolith deliver are too slow.
Use Automatic Dispenser to deliver regolith instead of conveyer rail, which limit 20kg per rail. Sweeper can deliver 1 tons each go.

You missed all of the efficient robo miner build, all your current robo miner waste tons of material.
Steel miner require only one miner per 16 tiles:

One robo miner per 8 tiles

[DimaB77]

1. On your first screenshot I do not see regolith clearing. At all. Gathering despenser... and then?
2. On your second screenshot I also do not see regolith clearing. Plus the dead zones above the robominer.
3. And in the third one, too.

Can you show the full diagrams, where the regolith will be cleaned NOT manually by dupes (that's too easy), but by auto-sweeper?

Also, in none of the screenshots I saw cooling. You don't think your buildings will overheat in a vacuum?

[degr]

auto sweeper put 1000kg of regolith in dispenser, and it throw it to the ground, where next auto-sweeper take it and pass forward. It is much faster then conveyor.

[DimaB77]

I understand exactly how they work. Moreover, I don't see the point of using them. It's easier to use a Storage Bin.

In your screenshot, just as wrong and in the screenshot of Tranoze, the same mistakes: auto-sweeper and despencers without cooling.

Also do not see what happens next with the regolith. Falling down? 20...40...100 tons of dupes will be carried by hand? Or will it be carried further by the conveyor rail to the cooling circuit or wherever on the base it is needed?

[NeoDeusMachina]

9 minutes ago, DimaB77 said:

I understand exactly how they work. Moreover, I don't see the point of using them. It's easier to use a Storage Bin.

In your screenshot, just as wrong and in the screenshot of Tranoze, the same mistakes: auto-sweeper and despencers without cooling.

Also do not see what happens next with the regolith. Falling down? 20...40...100 tons of dupes will be carried by hand? Or will it be carried further by the conveyor rail to the cooling circuit or wherever on the base it is needed?

Not sure about what they did, but I remember back when I played vanilla, it was a matter of getting thermium so they would not overheat at regolith temperature. Then, they would cool down naturally as new regolith would fall on top of the sweepers and "cool" them down to their temperature. 

That worked okay for the sweepers, not so much for the robo miners if they never touched regolith.

I could be wrong about this though, I haven't played vanilla since Spaced Out EA.

[degr]

8 minutes ago, DimaB77 said:

auto-sweeper and despencers without cooling.

autosweepers are cooled with regolith which fall down

8 minutes ago, DimaB77 said:

Also do not see what happens next with the regolith.

I convert it into meat

Spoiler

 

[DimaB77]

NeoDeusMachina. Quite right. A building filled with regolith will take its temperature. Steel is not suitable for this because the limit is 275C. Thermium is fine.

But I have a question? Why use thermium, expensive and unavailable at the beginning and middle of the game, if you can use steel or even copper/gold (3rd scheme)?

[NeoDeusMachina]

1 minute ago, DimaB77 said:

NeoDeusMachina. Quite right. A building filled with regolith will take its temperature. Steel is not suitable for this because the limit is 275C. Thermium is fine.

But I have a question? Why use thermium, expensive and unavailable at the beginning and middle of the game, if you can use steel or even copper/gold (3rd scheme)?

I am really not the right person to answer that question - I didn't use solar in vanilla and only opened a few bunker doors near my rockets and research station. Result: I manually dug up regolith with dupes for a long time and rarely bothered building fancy space infrastructure, even less so before I had some thermium to work with. I didn't see the point of space mining too much in vanilla. It's like I didn't "need" the normal resources, only the rare ones and I didn't need those in huge amounts that would justify building crazy space stuff. I did it a few times, but rarely. 

[DimaB77]

21 minutes ago, degr said:

I convert it into meat

OK. Please deliver me regolith according to your method - WITHOUT conveyors
here 

here 

here 

14 minutes ago, NeoDeusMachina said:

I didn't use solar in vanilla and only opened a few bunker doors near my rockets

This is normal. I myself have long been content with collecting regolith that was already lying on the surface. But some schemes require feeding it constantly and in large quantities, which the dupes can't handle manually. That's what the article is about.

[degr]

1 minute ago, DimaB77 said:

OK. Please deliver me regolith according to your method - WITHOUT conveyors

Why I should do that? Different tasks can be done with different methods. Some tasks can not be done with some methods.

13 minutes ago, DimaB77 said:

Why use thermium

Why not? I have many tons

14 minutes ago, DimaB77 said:

expensive and unavailable at the beginning and middle of the game

Have no idea why you need to touch regolith at beginning and middle of the game. Leave it as is, you may return to it when you will have enough resources.

32 minutes ago, DimaB77 said:

It's easier to use a Storage Bin.

if you have less then 9 leaps, and if you play with "no manual use mode" it's almost true, because it not easier, it's just more cheap (granite vs thermium).

[DimaB77]

15 minutes ago, degr said:

Why not? I have many tons

You forced (and it's a good thing) me to write a separate blog. It will be ready soon.

[Tranoze]

4 hours ago, DimaB77 said:

1. On your first screenshot I do not see regolith clearing. At all. Gathering despenser... and then?
2. On your second screenshot I also do not see regolith clearing. Plus the dead zones above the robominer.
3. And in the third one, too.

Can you show the full diagrams, where the regolith will be cleaned NOT manually by dupes (that's too easy), but by auto-sweeper?

Also, in none of the screenshots I saw cooling. You don't think your buildings will overheat in a vacuum?

I do not build them in sand box, the clearing is just a screenshot of how i build miner, i will build cleaning system after i get on hold of enough niobium. My current world dont have glimmering plannet so i dont plan to turn all my tungsten to thermium, so im fine with 575 over heat when i get enough niobium.
The death zone is the deal i take for halve the robo miner needed. You dont loose that much power, since all my solar panel are 4~5 tile of light thank to death zone.

Complex cooling for miner and sweeper are not needed, as one droplet of crude oil + 400~800 kg of background building is enough for them to run for 400~800 cycles and by that point, you should have access to space material to start replace them all.

3 hours ago, DimaB77 said:

In your screenshot, just as wrong and in the screenshot of Tranoze, the same mistakes: auto-sweeper and despencers without cooling.

I only use them after i obtain niobium, Despencers dont even have over heat temperature so they dont need cooling.

And your mistake is build conveyer loader which count as heavy machinery so they reduce quality of scan, so using them is a bad move.

How i use them after drop you ask? Here, i drop them right on top of my steam chamber so they can take the heat. You can also build conveyer loader there, which wont reduce space scanner quality.


Unlike sandbox building, survival building took much longer than just build it in space.
One thing you should know is: 
You dont have to deliver regolith away for your solar system to work, first, just make a working solar system that can MINE REGOLITH.

After done mining them, you can start working on cleaning them when you have enough materials.

3 hours ago, DimaB77 said:

I understand exactly how they work. Moreover, I don't see the point of using them. It's easier to use a Storage Bin.

If you saying it easier to use a storage bin then you totally wrong. Despencer drop item 1 tile aways from it prevent current sweeper from picking it, so you can make super large conveyer system with the same priorities, if you want to deliver them via storage bin, you only have 9 priorities to switch from.

4 hours ago, degr said:

auto sweeper put 1000kg of regolith in dispenser, and it throw it to the ground, where next auto-sweeper take it and pass forward. It is much faster then conveyor.

Robominer can mine even when bunker door open? If so i think i could improve mine design little bit.

[degr]

56 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Robominer can mine even when bunker door open?

No, it can't. I have no solar panels.

Think it is best solution if you need light (but with mesh tiles):

If you build it close enough to bunker doors, regolith above miner will be dropped below with "explosion wave" from meteors.

[DimaB77]

45 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

when i get enough niobium.

Why niobium when you can also build much earlier without it?

47 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

The death zone is the deal

The death zone is not scary. The question was that we could do without it.

48 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

one droplet of crude oil + 400~800 kg of background building

Where did you put it? On top of the Airflow tile?

50 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

to start replace them all

Why change when you can build at once and for all time?

57 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

And your mistake is build conveyer loader which count as heavy machinery so they reduce quality of scan

What mistake? I am writing directly and clearly: "Beneath the circuit may be solar panels, but not the scanner."

1 hour ago, Tranoze said:

i drop them right on top of my steam chamber

And can you show how regolith can be delivered to the other side of the map, using the dispenser? Or would a loader be required?

1 hour ago, Tranoze said:

One thing you should know is: 

I figured out a long time ago how to destroy the regolith so it wouldn't interfere with the solar panels. It is described in the first scheme.

The question is how to get it to the farm Mobs, to the regolith melting scheme, etc. How to cool it, or on the contrary, keep it warm. These questions I have tried to answer in this article.

1 hour ago, Tranoze said:

Despencer drop item 1 tile aways from it prevent current sweeper

Good point. Priorities may not be enough.

---

In general, I have tried to show all possible options for harvesting regolith: with or without saving it, with the expenditure of energy or with obtaining it, simple and more complex. The choice is up to the players.

23 minutes ago, degr said:

Think it is best solution if you need light (but with mesh tiles):

I have seen this solution and even built a circuit on it. It is not the best solution:

• Airflow Tile interfere with the scanner
• There are blind spots.

This is a simple solution, but there is an even simpler one.

[degr]

This is perfect design, but for unknown to me reasons drill not work through opened airlocks and bunker doors

 

So, it not work, but hope it would be fixed somewhen. So, think you may add drywall and dump steam.

[DimaB77]

 

28 minutes ago, degr said:

but for unknown to me reasons drill not work through opened airlocks and bunker doors

This is a known bug. I don't remember where, but I read about it.

---

Despite the vacation season, and taking time away from my family, to review all the schemes. I eliminated the stupid and non-working schemes in this release. Refined the ones I liked. Tested my options.

Do you have a good scheme that I haven't listed? Very possibly. Post it here, in as much detail as possible, and I'll be sure to include it in the article, with attribution.

And to start a dialogue with the words: "Your schemes are ****" is not worth it.

upd. The asterisks are not mine

[Tranoze]

10 hours ago, DimaB77 said:

Why niobium when you can also build much earlier without it?

Why change when you can build at once and for all time?

You not even play the game and just mess with dev tool do you? Once you start using rocket and gather space material, you gotta use it in somewhere, and if all your farm and your build is "once and for all time", then rocket is for nothing then.

Space material can improve lots type of farm, which can reduce lag a lot. Example, for clearing regolith, without cooling loop, you can remove 1 aquatuner and lots of piping.

For people actually play the game, after building there scheme, they improve it, upgrade it, sometime replace it with something fun.

Noone have perfect materials to build perfect scheme from start, that the point of "PLAYING".

A good scheme is:
Functional. (I think you only focus on this.)
Easy to construct. (Include farming the materials needed, have pathing for dupe to walk to construct the scheme.)
Easy to upgrade. (include having enough space to build decor if you needed, room can be used on different scheme for the same function but with better materials, wiring are easy to switch) Most of your scheme for the same function use different room size, which will be a pain to switch scheme or upgrade it.
Easy to destroy. (Once you have enough material, resouce, it good to deconstruct some of the scheme to reduce late game lag.)
Easy to repair. (Things will have chance to break, either you want it or not. There might be bugs, glitch, allow unwanted stuff to go to the system, so someway to repair them in that case is always needed.)

[DimaB77]

3 hours ago, Tranoze said:

You not even play the game and just mess with dev tool do you?

You (if I'm not mistaken) write to me every time, "You don't play the game, just the sandbox!"
I passed that game. Speedrun, with a rocket on cycle 28. As a rule, by the 300th cycle already brought all the artifacts from space and built everything you need. Is that enough?

3 hours ago, Tranoze said:

A good scheme is:...

I agree with all of the above. But in the first place for me is the simplicity of construction. This includes a minimum of automation, and the absence of rare materials and compact and clear circuit.

I am not against the use of space materials. I actively use them where it is impossible to do without them. But I am categorically against their use where it is possible to build with conventional materials.

Regarding the thermium scheme. I will definitely add it, since it is so popular. But I shouldn't call it the best (imho).

[Tranoze]

51 minutes ago, DimaB77 said:

But in the first place for me is the simplicity of construction. This includes a minimum of automation, and the absence of rare materials and compact and clear circuit.

The point is you try make it too simplicity that you dont account other factors, plus you bring nothing new to the schemes, to somewhat all the scheme work exactly like how the game's machine describe how it will work, like what the point of "guide" if anyone start playing the game, read the description, and can build the exact same scheme, or even better scheme without it?

For it to be a guide, add some more mechanic not mentioned in the game description, something an experience player would know and new player wont know, make your site better by adding things that players would come to know, cuz right now, most of your site data already covered in in-game guide.

And make it efficient, not only in build clearance, but reduce the rare materials needed, not basic material needed. You dont need to cut off corner of every room. Steel are hard to farm early game, so reduce the amount of machinery using that material would help.

And put more basic concept on forum, not just one picture, so for people that read the concept here can start read more at your site if your concept is cool enough.

[DimaB77]

Who here likes the dispenser scheme???
Here are some dispensers for you. Just COPPER and water and nothing else!

Just because the circuit was able to be assembled without thermium, doesn't make it any better than the others. Regolith loss remains and cooling is needed.

For Tranoze

Spoiler

Finding a new idea for an article is not easy. Coming up with something that others haven't thought of is even harder. And then there are many hours of testing, describing, and taking screenshots. Then you have to reread everything, correct mistakes, make the text more understandable. Then translate into someone else's language, maintain two sites, answering questions (simple and not).

All of this takes 5 to 12 HOURS OF DAILY WORK. I can afford it, since I have a lot of free time. But all this I do alone, voluntarily and without pay.

To read after that,

1 hour ago, Tranoze said:

you bring nothing new

is not very pleasant. I think you said it in the heat of the moment. If not - God is your judge.

 

 

[NeoDeusMachina]

Why do you absolutely want to convince each other that your way is the better way? Is it possible that you have different approaches to your builds, different priorities, different preferences? Does it matter? I think you have both made your opinions clear to all readers on the forum. It's okay to have different opinions, how about "agree to disagree"? It is getting personal and not really about the game itself. Just a thought.

[Tranoze]

1 hour ago, DimaB77 said:

It would work great, for previous update. For current version for some reason robo miner on regolith somehow spawn regolith particle with some verlocity (increase the chance regolith drop to any setup by alot, if you run for 1~2 cycle they might not occur, but for large setup you could notice it straight away, previously they just drop stright down). I suggest we test some more with current game version.