Move the F#### reset button

[fimmatek]

I believe that a reason why it's like that is that normally it takes quite long to learn the game and get to the point where you have a base that you don't want to lose, and by that time you already died and reset several worlds, so the button is familiar for you and you don't click it thinking it revives you. Just my two cents.

However, I agree that the icon for reviving with a meat effigy should be more noticeable. But I think the reset button is fine, maybe it should say regenerate instead, but other than that it's fine.

Btw, I also don't think having back-ups is cheating, more so since (in worst case) even mods can corrupt your save files, or if your computer or drivers breaks down.

[SkepticnotCynic]

Also the delete button is dangerously easy to misclick when trying to go to your cluster folder. 

Yes there is a confirmation/warning popup, yes I still managed to panic and misclick again and delete a world. Yes I'm a doofus.

But I now I backup and hope the delete button is moved into the world settings screen rather than when you want to choose a world to play  .

[Yuuko]

I agree there should be some kind of reset world confirmation.  Its a QOL update, so not high priority, but a valid request.  I know I've clicked the reset world button on reflex as its really presented as "the" option on death without realizing I had a meat effigy ready to go. (sry, I'm blonde, out of sight out of mind)

I also think they should include a pillar of light on revive similar to what you get when you log into a world / enter / exit caves.  In my recent world my sittuation was where I either wait all night next to a touch stone and run out of time resetting the world, or revive and die to darkness.  Instead I just relog to get a pillar of light and revive.  Since relogging is always an option, why not shortcut it?

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

3 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I also think they should include a pillar of light on revive similar to what you get when you log into a world / enter / exit caves.

+1 to that. I'm usually the kind of player who accepts a mechanic and tries to adapt to it. I would support this suggestion though.

Yes, building 4 firepits next to the 4 touchstones is pretty cheap, but who does this on pubs? Veterans just pass, cause they don't need a touchstone and newbies don't have the resources for spare. So people reviving there have to either wait out the night, or it can deem a cave touchstone unusable, because you can't pick a torch or a lamp lying there next to it when it's completely dark.

[xxXolot]

I think if you have meat effigy tuned to use, there could be a pop-up window when you hit the reset button after dying, says something like, “You could revive with Meat Effigy. Reset the world anyway?” With option of “Use Meat Effigy”, “Reset the world” and “Cancel”.

I once had friend built effigy, but they never saw the button when they actually died, and since I rarely use effigy myself I never knew where the button is lol

I personally think building an Effigy is for “revive”, and not “make a revive button show up”, so if it’s not intuitive to revive with Effigy when one died, then the UI has space for improvement.

 

[Cheggf]

9 hours ago, WainingWabbits said:

May i ask, are you trolling ? or are you serious ? 

That's what I'd like to ask you. You see a countdown that says "World will reset in: <s>" and a button right after that that says "Reset Now", you click that button, and then are surprised when the world resets upon you clicking the button. You think the meat effigy button is "hidden" despite it being where your stats are, somewhere you should be looking anyways, and it being the only HUD element other than the reset timer & world clock.

I've never accidentally reset a world, and none of my dozen friends I play with have ever accidentally reset a world either. This is completely, 100%, unequivocally, on you.

[BezKa]

26 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

That's what I'd like to ask you. You see a countdown that says "World will reset in: <s>" and a button right after that that says "Reset Now", you click that button, and then are surprised when the world resets upon you clicking the button. You think the meat effigy button is "hidden" despite it being where your stats are, somewhere you should be looking anyways, and it being the only HUD element other than the reset timer & world clock.

I've never accidentally reset a world, and none of my dozen friends I play with have ever accidentally reset a world either. This is completely, 100%, unequivocally, on you.

Are you a robot? Multiple people just showed up and said they had an incident. It's very nice that you or your friends have enough luck that it never happened to you. It happens to others though and is worth at least talking about. 

[Cheggf]

54 minutes ago, BezKa said:

Are you a robot? Multiple people just showed up and said they had an incident. It's very nice that you or your friends have enough luck that it never happened to you. It happens to others though and is worth at least talking about. 

Yeah, it's "luck" that we don't instantly click buttons we know will reset the world. If anyone's a robot it'd be "See button, therefore click button" players.

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

That's what I'd like to ask you. You see a countdown that says "World will reset in: <s>" and a button right after that that says "Reset Now", you click that button, and then are surprised when the world resets upon you clicking the button. You think the meat effigy button is "hidden" despite it being where your stats are, somewhere you should be looking anyways, and it being the only HUD element other than the reset timer & world clock.

I've never accidentally reset a world, and none of my dozen friends I play with have ever accidentally reset a world either. This is completely, 100%, unequivocally, on you.

 

1 hour ago, BezKa said:

Are you a robot? Multiple people just showed up and said they had an incident. It's very nice that you or your friends have enough luck that it never happened to you. It happens to others though and is worth at least talking about. 

Yes it's worth talking about.

Yes it's OP's fault.

Yes more people have problem with it.

No, OP wasn't surprised, he was frustrated.

No, it's not about luck. It's about reading buttons before you click them.

So yes, the lesson is to read those buttons.

 

Let it be a lesson for you OP. The lesson kinda ascends this game and can be applied IRL.
I don't want to slope this argument too much, but...
Do we want to live in a world where people just blindly click on stuff on their screens,
or do we want to read and think about stuff, before making rushed decisions?

 

8 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Yeah, it's "luck" that we don't instantly click buttons we know will reset the world. If anyone's a robot it'd be "See button, therefore click button" players.

Eh, not really. From what I've read on the internet, that's pretty much inherently a living being thing. Robot would think before doing stuff.

[BezKa]

44 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Yeah, it's "luck" that we don't instantly click buttons we know will reset the world. If anyone's a robot it'd be "See button, therefore click button" players.

Yes, it's luck that none of you were ever tired enough, or distracted enough. It's luck that you and your group are coincidentally people who had never had an accident like this. 

41 minutes ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

Do we want to live in a world where people just blindly click on stuff on their screens,
or do we want to read and think about stuff, before making rushed decisions?

How poetic. Because every waking hour we have to be hyperfocused on every single task and can't afford one second to just play a game and not be worried about screwing something up. 

I think the "learning a lesson" part was over the moment OP or anyone else deleted their world by mistake. The same lesson can be learned by clicking the button and being reminded that you almost made this mistake. Nobody needs to preach it here as if someone still didn't understand what happened after writing a post about it. 

I'm all about the game being harsh and unforgiving, but this isn't part of the game. It's an option between the gameplay, and should not have this kind of risk attached to it. 

[marioespinho]

13 hours ago, WainingWabbits said:

Move the F#### reset button

 

 

11 hours ago, WainingWabbits said:

you can argue all you want that is "my fault" but you cannot deny that this is bad a design and something should be done about it

 

11 hours ago, WainingWabbits said:

Yeah, something like that, i  was expecting the revive button there like in any other game, i read the first letters "re......" and i was expecting "revive" or "ressurect", so i hit that button like whack-a-mole and here i am

Let me see if i got this straight, you read 2 letters, assume that it says something and proceed to click it. It doesn't actually say what you thought it did, so it restarts the world. And your logical course of action is to come curse on the forums on how KLEI should do something about it?

I can't even be sure if you are serious or just trolling with this. If you are actually serious, i suggest that, next time, in this game or any other game, you actually re.............ad the damn words to prevent these kind of things from happening.

Also, keeping backups are only "cheating" ( not really, but ok ) if you use them. You know what else they are good for? Crashes, bugs, accidents and people who don't like to read entire words.

[Notecja]

Honestly I simply don't mind warning and reset button is always somewhere between tempting and "forbidden button". That special feeling "oh just don't click it!".

If it saves some frustration from people why not.

[WainingWabbits]

8 hours ago, marioespinho said:

 

 

Let me see if i got this straight, you read 2 letters, assume that it says something and proceed to click it. It doesn't actually say what you thought it did, so it restarts the world. And your logical course of action is to come curse on the forums on how KLEI should do something about it?

I can't even be sure if you are serious or just trolling with this. If you are actually serious, i suggest that, next time, in this game or any other game, you actually re.............ad the damn words to prevent these kind of things from happening.

Also, keeping backups are only "cheating" ( not really, but ok ) if you use them. You know what else they are good for? Crashes, bugs, accidents and people who don't like to read entire words.

I'm a programmer myself, and i'm pretty familiar with UI / Game design, and that button being there like that in it's current state, is bad design.. an UI has to be intuitive, because the human brain forms reflexes based on patterns so it doesn't have to read or process everything fully all the time, that is why all common buttons are placed in similar patterns across all devices and interfaces, in our case the UI is actually counter intuitive.. in every game you play, when you die the first option that comes up is to resurrect/revive, in DST on the other hand, the first option that comes up is to delete your world, that's like making a car and switching the gas/brake pedals between them.. 

 

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

1 hour ago, WainingWabbits said:

I'm a programmer myself, and i'm pretty familiar with UI / Game design, and that button being there like that in it's current state, is bad design.. an UI has to be intuitive, because the human brain forms reflexes based on patterns so it doesn't have to read or process everything fully all the time, that is why all common buttons are placed in similar patterns across all devices and interfaces, in our case the UI is actually counter intuitive.. in every game you play, when you die the first option that comes up is to resurrect/revive, in DST on the other hand, the first option that comes up is to delete your world, that's like making a car and switching the gas/brake pedals between them.. 

 

It makes sense for roguelike games. (At least singleplayer DS was roguelike. Not sure, if you can still put DST into that category.)

I'm a programmer myself and have a little bit of background on UI/UX too. And I don't think this is bad design. It's... well... good enough IMO.
Bad design would be, if the button was bright and was begging to be clicked; or the text on it would be confusing; or if there was no context as to what the button does. Still, from UI/UX perspective the confirmation popup would improve it tremendously.

10 hours ago, BezKa said:

How poetic. Because every waking hour we have to be hyperfocused on every single task and can't afford one second to just play a game and not be worried about screwing something up. 

Not hyperfocused. Focused is enough. And not every waking hour, only when a decision is to be made.

10 hours ago, BezKa said:

I think the "learning a lesson" part was over the moment OP or anyone else deleted their world by mistake. The same lesson can be learned by clicking the button and being reminded that you almost made this mistake.

I was trying to be optimistic. Like: "Yes, your world got deleted... BUT you will now be more careful with reading popup actions. And when more important decision than deleting a DST world (like deleting some important photos or files) comes before you, you might not make the mistake again."

10 hours ago, BezKa said:

Nobody needs to preach it here as if someone still didn't understand what happened after writing a post about it. 

Yeah, i guess you're right with this one. I am a bit too preachy. Sorry.

10 hours ago, BezKa said:

I'm all about the game being harsh and unforgiving, but this isn't part of the game. It's an option between the gameplay, and should not have this kind of risk attached to it. 

I agree. Though i don't think that it requires a harsh response like "Move the F#### reset button". I understand there were emotions after it happened and that OP wanted attention, so he made the title that he made and it worked. But I would appreciate less offense.
(To be fair, OP's responses were much more collected afterwards, so the title is the only thing i have a problem with.)

[BezKa]

40 minutes ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

Snip

Sorry about my posts' aggressiveness. Cheggf made me mad and it's been a long day. 

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

To summarize my opinion:

Look, It is a good suggestion, to improve this thing. I just don't want to put too much pressure on the developers for making the ideal product. Making games is a competetive field, so if your UI/UX isn't good enough, it might be one of the deciding factors for people to write negative reviews or to not reccomend the game to their friends. And while giving developers feedback on what you don't like is great for them and us alike, they are not responsible for every single thing the user does. OP had all the tools and informations on his screen and had 2 minutes to make a choice.

Users should not feel entitled for perfect product and creators should not be required to deliver it. That's the free market's job to decide what's worth it and what's not. And while i don't @ you @BezKa, i do feel like OP was behaving entitled in the title and a little bit in the following post as well.

TL;DR: I agree with OP, I just don't like the tone he communicated it with.

26 minutes ago, BezKa said:

Sorry about my posts' aggressiveness. Cheggf made me mad and it's been a long day. 

I did not feel any aggresiveness from your side. (might be because i imagined that i was debating with a pony, but i don't know).

[Mday]

I feel like the reset button is no longer needed. First you still have effigy, second you have another reset button on the game menu.

[Notecja]

1 hour ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

(might be because i imagined that i was debating with a pony, but i don't know).

You too? 

[NSAiswatchingus]

I'm sorry for your loss, but really anything under 1000 days isn't a huge loss. You can easily get back to the 300 days and you'll be far better at the game next time around. Whatever you had before isn't as good as what you could build now. 

 

I personally don't like that the Rollback and Regenerate world buttons are right next to each other on console. Can we get some space between those or a confirm prompt? At this point, the greatest threat to my world is my own stupidity. 

[GelatinousCube]

4 minutes ago, NSAiswatchingus said:

 

I personally don't like that the Rollback and Regenerate world buttons are right next to each other on console. Can we get some space between those or a confirm prompt? At this point, the greatest threat to my world is my own stupidity. 

I can't give this enough props, these two buttons should not be next to each other at all! They need to be moved as well as a confirm prompt added to regen world. 

[marioespinho]

6 hours ago, WainingWabbits said:

I'm a programmer myself, and i'm pretty familiar with UI / Game design, and that button being there like that in it's current state, is bad design.. an UI has to be intuitive, because the human brain forms reflexes based on patterns so it doesn't have to read or process everything fully all the time, that is why all common buttons are placed in similar patterns across all devices and interfaces, in our case the UI is actually counter intuitive.. in every game you play, when you die the first option that comes up is to resurrect/revive, in DST on the other hand, the first option that comes up is to delete your world, that's like making a car and switching the gas/brake pedals between them.. 

 

That analogy doesn't make sense. Cars are meant to be the same across every brand/type. Games, on the other hand, each have their own rules/gimmicks and being a programmer doesn't make it so that your view of what's good or bad implemented is a standard for every game you play. And in this specific case it's easy to see how the problem isn't the "brain patterns" since almost everyone that answered here have not experienced the same problem you did.

If you want to rely on patterns to cut on reading time, fine. But don't blame it on the developers when you mess up because you didn't bother to read before clicking. And even if it could be better implemented, and since you are a programmer yourself, how would you like people to give feedback on your work by telling you to "MOVE THE F%$&ING button" ?

 

[Yuuko]

 

3 hours ago, marioespinho said:

That analogy doesn't make sense. Cars are meant to be the same across every brand/type. Games, on the other hand, each have their own rules/gimmicks and being a programmer doesn't make it so that your view of what's good or bad implemented is a standard for every game you play. And in this specific case it's easy to see how the problem isn't the "brain patterns" since almost everyone that answered here have not experienced the same problem you did.

If you want to rely on patterns to cut on reading time, fine. But don't blame it on the developers when you mess up because you didn't bother to read before clicking. And even if it could be better implemented, and since you are a programmer yourself, how would you like people to give feedback on your work by telling you to "MOVE THE F%$&ING button" ?

 

Car analogy not withstanding, it IS bad UX design.  When you design an interface you should put the most used, most relevant, and most desired options in the easiest view.  The button for resetting the world is in the right spot.  A new window, bright against the now drab and colorless screen pops up giving you an update on the state of the game (everyone is dead) and you get your options on how to deal with it.  Meanwhile hiding at the top, far away from the big new popup is an unassuming icon, dark colors against a dark backdrop, no text.

A few things about this and the number of complaints about it:

• Most people never play the game far enough to build a meat effigy, for these people resetting the world is likely the only outcome.  Until you can build meat effigies this complaint doesn't apply.  You could only weigh the feedback based on the population that gets passed this.
• Many people play with other people providing a buffer between death and restarting the world.  When you die in a multiplayer world you're likely coordinating telltale hearts, life giving amulets, ect in which case the existence of a meat effigy likely comes up.
• Experienced solo players may have made this mistake several times at the cusp of learning about meat effigies before using them to the point of expecting them to be available.  Maybe they didn't even realize they reset a world they had built an effigy in because they never noticed.
• Once you have built a reliance on meat effigies you have created your own unique impulse to check for them, but this does not invalidate criticism about the UX.  You may not even recall when you've overlooked a meat effigy.
• Many people have built a different reflex - they roll back the world...

I know I've reset worlds when I had a meat effigy built before I remembered I had it built.  Its tough because losing a long lasting solo world can already be a bit emotional, to realize after the world is gone that you had actually prepared against this but didn't realize it until its too late just reinforces the negative emotions that may be there.

Why are the after-death options not all in the same place?  Why do we not have a confirmation on resetting a world?  We have a confirmation on deleting a world, they are effectively the same decision.  If you could imagine possibly mistake clicking the delete button from the games menu, I don't see how you could imagine it any less frequent to click reset world with a meat effigy build...

[marioespinho]

@Shosuko

Resetting a world and deleting one are not the same thing at all... One of them can be reverted via rollbacks, the other one can't. Also, the revival options aren't all in the same place because they are not all a 1-click solution to revive.

Also, if you build effigies but can't remember having them built, it's more on your end than the UI's fault. When you are near death and forget you have a heal you don't have a flashing healing button. Or when you are close to starvation you don't get a pop-up window reminding you that you have food to eat. Same thing goes for everything else.

While i understand your point of view, OP's issue happened not because of the UI, but because he didn't even read what the button said before insta-clicking it. He also decided to play with no rollbacks enabled either. So even if the UI could be better implemented, i see this meltdown of a post as unnecessary and over the top for something that was A) his fault for not reading and B) his choice for not having any type of backup to prevent something like this.

Sure we could have an effigy button on the box too, but in OP's case it would still be a 50/50 chance of messing up since he didn't even read what the only available button said anyway.

 

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, marioespinho said:

@Shosuko

Resetting a world and deleting one are not the same thing at all... One of them can be reverted via rollbacks, the other one can't. Also, the revival options aren't all in the same place because they are not all a 1-click solution to revive.

fyi - you cannot roll back after a world is reset.  The OP didn't have rollbacks disabled, that's not even something you can do.  Deleting a world and resetting it are the same.  The only difference is one happens in game and starts a new world with the same settings.

Not all revival options are 1 click, but the meat effigy is... so...