Should Meatballs, Pierogi and other recipes be nerfed?

[Parusoid]

3 minutes ago, AllFunNGamez said:

Also how do I quote a single sentence instead of the whole thing someone says?

Think you can just edit the quoted reply when you are writing your post but also you can select part of the text in someone's post and a "quote selection" thingy will pop up

[Hornete]

4 minutes ago, AllFunNGamez said:

No I understand the Value in the potatoes my point was that what is the point if you don't even need to worry about growing them knowing you have an easy recipe for something that gives you 62.5 hunger in your back pocket? 

Well, potatoes are more helpful for the other two stats instead of just hunger, as I said it fulfills quite a lot of health, and while it doesnt fulfill sanity directly there are some very nice crockpot dishes that use potatoes (Potato puree, potato soufflee, potato tornados).

Sure I could use meatballs instead but I'll only really fulfill hunger with them, and pierogis take a bit more maintenance/work than potatoes imo so I wouldn't like to use pierogis(Honestly, I can't remember the last time I ate pierogi, I tend to use healing items/other healing foods like surf n turf and so on).

[AllFunNGamez]

Just now, Parusoid said:

Think you can just edit the quote when you are writing your post but also you can select part of the text in someones post and and a "quote selection" will pop up

Ah thank you so much!

[Nettalie]

1 minute ago, AllFunNGamez said:

No I understand the Value in the potatoes my point was that what is the point if you don't even need to worry about growing them knowing you have an easy recipe for something that gives you 62.5 hunger in your back pocket? 

Please do not get me wrong I know my point is not valid I am just saying how sometimes it could be easier to survive on the simplest recipes without ever wanting to step foot towards the more complicated stuff. 

Well, but that is exactly the thing. Growing large potatoes is not all that complex at the end of the day, it just requires a tiny amount of watering and tending if you grow them with tomatoes. Which also gives you additional benefit from the tomatoes alone.

Tending can be simplified by using music instruments like a one man band or something as simple as a beefalo horn, while watering is as easy as watering a tile twice at the beginning of each growth stage if you wanna be absolutely sure. And at that point the plants do all the rest. 

It sounds more complicated than sticking meat and filler into a pot, but you gotta remember that you also have to grab the meat and filler in the first place, which can definitely end up being more work for the return you get out of it. Especially considering that once you have the big crops, they will definitely last you a really long while.

[AllFunNGamez]

Just now, Nettalie said:

Well, but that is exactly the thing. Growing large potatoes is not all that complex at the end of the day, it just requires a tiny amount of watering and tending if you grow them with tomatoes. Which also gives you additional benefit from the tomatoes alone.

Tending can be simplified by using music instruments like a one man band or something as simple as a beefalo horn, while watering is as easy as watering a tile twice at the beginning of each growth stage if you wanna be absolutely sure. And at that point the plants do all the rest. 

It sounds more complicated than sticking meat and filler into a pot, but you gotta remember that you also have to grab the meat and filler in the first place, which can definitely end up being more work for the return you get out of it. Especially considering that once you have the big crops, they will definitely last you a really long while.

hmmm Okay I honestly see your point now. I guess its more the opposite of what I am doing instead of cooking all day I could be growing the food and tending to it for a better end result. See this is what I like a nice discussion on the forums superb  .

 

[bruhmoment23]

No, instead buff the more worthless foods.

[Nettalie]

7 minutes ago, bruhmoment23 said:

No, instead buff the more worthless foods.

To be fair, there are only really a handful of foods that are truly worthless by either being not enough benefit or a bit too niche compared to a lot of others.

Most of the crockpot dishes are fairly well balanced in that regard if you ask me, with just a few outliers that sadly underdeliver.

[HowlVoid]

37 minutes ago, AllFunNGamez said:

When I say only Meatballs I am not saying JUST meatballs I guess I should say Majority.... Taking things I say literally might be the problem here. I have tried other recipes I am just saying that if Meatballs were to get nerfed we could end up with a further exploration of recipes without having that crutch of always knowing there is an easier recipe I mean tell me If I am wrong here.

I think you are limiting yourself actually. 

Meatballs are not the backpocket recipe you want to have. Most experienced players have already found a more comfortable recipes to rely on. 

What you are experiencing is a "crutch" but it mostly due to lack of knowledge. I have been there, thinking meatballs was the best recipe to fill my hunger, then I thought it was bacon and eggs, but that's not the case.

Raw honey is my comfort food. 8 honey hives is all I've ever needed. They feed me year around and even tend to rot because I have so much. Other players use other things.

Honey ham is better than meatballs.

1 honey, 1 meat/monster meat, 2 morsel. The honey will already be at base, the meat is the one you have been using for meatballs, now instead of ice you'll collect morsels. A scarecrow, a feather hat and a boomerang and you're good to go. You'll also get far better hp, 30. Don't want to get boomerangs? Invest in a bunny+spider farm.

I haven't had meatballs as a dish in a long, long time. 

[Nettalie]

1 minute ago, HowlVoid said:

2 honey, 1 meat/monster meat, 1 morsel.

2 morsels, 1 big meat and 2 honey actually.
You need over 1.5 meat value and a single morsel only provides 0.5 sadly.

[AllFunNGamez]

2 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I think you are limiting yourself actually. 

Meatballs are not the backpocket recipe you want to have. Most experienced players have already found a more comfortable recipes to rely on. 

What you are experiencing is a "crutch" but it mostly due to lack of knowledge. I have been there, thinking meatballs was the best recipe to fill my hunger, then I thought it was bacon and eggs, but that's not the case.

Raw honey is my comfort food. 8 honey hives is all I've ever needed. They feed me year around and even tend to rot because I have so much. Other players use other things.

Honey ham is better than meatballs.

2 honey, 1 meat/monster meat, 1 morsel. The honey will already be at base, the meat is the one you have been using for meatballs, now instead of ice you'll collect morsels. A scarecrow, a feather hat and a boomerang and you're good to go. You'll also get far better hp, 30. Don't want to get boomerangs? Invest in a bunny+spider farm.

I haven't had meatballs as a dish in a long, long time. 

I have actually played DST for over 4000 hours but I am being honest when I say this I still rely on Meatballs and only give other recipes a chance when I have to. I do not play a lot of longer games of DST I prefer short round bursts of boss fighting and map regeneration for specific reasons. 

So I find that for accessibility Meatballs have become my main source of food however if we have the Honey and or the Eggs yeah bacon n eggs become my choice or Honey ham if we have some honey laying around. 

Back in our Megabase days when food is a plenty I still found myself relying on Meatballs for a quick snack unless we had a dedicated Chef in the Kitchen. But yeah I think a lot of this revolves around just not having the time and being more of an in a rush sorta thing so I feel like I have targeted meatballs everytime as my go to source. 

[HowlVoid]

2 minutes ago, Nettalie said:

2 morsels, 1 big meat and 2 honey actually.
You need over 1.5 meat value and a single morsel only provides 0.5 sadly.

Ah ok. I only eat raw honey. Thanks.

[Nettalie]

1 minute ago, HowlVoid said:

Ah ok. I only eat raw honey. Thanks.

Yeah me too. 
Well either that or farmed veggies.

Only reason I know this so well is because I theory crafted the hell out of which recipe (honey nuggets or ham) is better imo.

[Electroely]

I think there's a lot of options for good sources of food late-game. The addition of leafy meat (fish meat and wobsters, too) as a Crockpot ingredient has added a lot of new ways to easily make good hunger dishes that would have required regular meat in the past. Here's some of my favorite recipes, noting that leafy meat can be swapped for fish meat or a Wobster:

- 1 Monster Meat, 1 Leafy Meat, 2 honey: Honey Ham
- 1 Monster Meat, 1 Leafy Meat, 2 eggs: Bacon and Eggs
- 1 Monster Meat, 1 Leafy Meat, 2 morsels/bat wings or 1 big meat: Meaty Stew

I usually rely on crops for all my food-related needs, but in the event I don't bother farming I always use these recipes since a spider farm is a necessity and a meat bulb farm isn't hard to set up and maintain.

The only scenario where I would be making meatballs late-game is if I'm being lazy and I have a bunch of Forget-Me-Lots I'm willing to use as filler.

[Tarciso]

Neither buff nor nerf. The game has enough recipes for you to choose your favorites or the ones that best suit your situation.

[HowlVoid]

8 minutes ago, AllFunNGamez said:

I have actually played DST for over 4000

Time played does not equal experience.

Quote

revolves around just not having the time and being more of an in a rush sorta thing so I feel like I have targeted meatballs everytime as my go to source. 

Raw honey requires 0 cooking time. You light the hive on fire, have a flingo freeze the bees and done. I collect 3 days worth of food in seconds. 

Meatballs are not efficient at all.

Edit its actually not 3 days, sorry. With 8 beehives I actually harvest enough for 6. Which is even more bonkers for just a few seconds.

[Nettalie]

Just now, HowlVoid said:

Time played does not equal experience.

Raw honey requires 0 cooking time. You light the hive on fire, have a flingo freeze the bees and done. I collect 3 days worth of food in seconds. 

Meatballs are not efficient at all.

I personally like harvesting all my honey in winter and bundling the rest I dont need. This requires a larger number of hives, but can be well worth it imo.

[AllFunNGamez]

1 minute ago, HowlVoid said:

Time played does not equal experience.

Oh no I was just saying I have seen other recipes did not want to make it out to seem like I just recently started playing DST.

Yes I know a stack of raw honey as Wolfgang is da best not that I play Wolfgang

[Theukon-dos]

I'd say the recipes you mentioned are in a... weird spot.

 

They're not quite as broken after Reap what you Sow, but they're still pretty broken.

 

The thing with Meatballs and Pierogi is that they're not nessesarily the most efficent foods, but they're insanely easy to cook.

 

Meatballs for example, if made with 3 cooked berries and 1 monster meat, than the raw ingredients would restore about 56 hunger, only 6 less than meatballs.

 

However, those two ingredients are *super* easy to get. That monster meat? just plop a spider den near your base. And those berries are fairly self explanatory. You just need to place a few berry bushes near your house. 

 

So, while you're not getting a very large bonus, the two ingredients are so easy to get that it just doesn't matter. You can also use ice for meatballs, which increases the net gain from about 6 to a whopping 43.

 

Anyways, Pierogi is the same deal. Just use a spider den for the meat and egg, and then use something like mushrooms, cactus, or stone fruit for the veggie, and you've got an easy 40 HP.

 

Compare these recipes to, say, Bacon and eggs or Fish sticks.

 

Bacon and Eggs require 2 meat and 2 eggs. Because it needs 2 meat, you need a regular large meat instead of just monster meat. And the two eggs also require feeding meat to a bird. So if you use 3 Monster Meat and 1 large meat, you're spending several times the amount of effort for 81 hunger, which is actually more than the raw ingredients will give you, albeit without the loss of sanity or hunger that eating the ingredients cooked would result in.

 

Likewise, while fish sticks are a great early-game healing option, fishing rods cost an active investment of silk and twigs, along with the time spent waiting for a fish to bite. And even if ocean fishing only takes seeds, then you still need to wait for the fish to bite, and then spend time reeling them in. I'm fully willing to bet I could kill 3-4 spiders in the time it takes to catch 1 fish. and that's not even mentioning the fact that you need to actually find the shoals first. The vegetables are also fairly easy, because again, all you need are mushrooms, cactus, or stone fruit.

 

TL;DR Meatballs and Pierogi may not be the best recipes, but they're so cheap and easy to make that it doesn't really matter.

 

54 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Those dishes are actually "traps". There are better food sources in the game. 

1. Honey. 1 time cost and automated 3/4 of the year. Can be used as healing, sanity and food. Very high spoilage time.

2. Kelp. Can be dried for sanity. Good veggie filler (.05) for things like vegetable stinger. And veggie burger. Wurt can can get away with only eating kelp.

3. lure plants. This takes some time but once you have a few, things like veggie burgers heal 30 hp and 33 sanity. All it cost is an onion which grow 3/4 out of the seasons. 

Automated food exists, so no, meatballs are not op.

Honey is good, I fully admit.

 

Kelp can be a hassle to set up, as you need to find Lunar inorder to get a good amount of stalks to transplant.

 

You can't get lureplants until spring, and even then you're looking at only 2-3 lureplants a year.

[WoodieMain45684]

I don't think a nerf to these recipes are necessary in vanilla as it has a more casual feel. I personally would delegate any recipe rebalancing to mods, or an "expert mode" if klei were to ever want to pick up something like that.

Mostly suggest the mod thing because it allows the community to actively debate the ingredients and benefits of a dish and change it and playtest it with different values faster than if klei were to release an update nerfing the dish.

The dishes are a bit over the top in my opinion, but mostly only in extreme cases like making monster meat and ice into 62.5 hunger or mushrooms and monster meat (an by extension, eggs) into 40 health.

I wouldn't say that the system that we have at the moment in UM is perfect by any means, but, because it's a mod, we can actively take criticism and adjust recipes waaaaay faster than if klei were to try and change it.

So yeah, I don't think klei should nerf the recipes, leave that stuff to hard mode mods like CTC, UM, FAF, etc. 

[AllFunNGamez]

3 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

I'd say the recipes you mentioned are in a... weird spot.

 

They're not quite as broken after Reap what you Sow, but they're still pretty broken.

 

I think exactly what you said is what I was trying to say except I missed it by a long shot. 

4 minutes ago, WoodieMain45684 said:

I don't think a nerf to these recipes are necessary in vanilla as it has a more casual feel. I personally would delegate any recipe rebalancing to mods, or an "expert mode" if klei were to ever want to pick up something like that.

Mostly suggest the mod thing because it allows the community to actively debate the ingredients and benefits of a dish and change it and playtest it with different values faster than if klei were to release an update nerfing the dish.

The dishes are a bit over the top in my opinion, but mostly only in extreme cases like making monster meat and ice into 62.5 hunger or mushrooms and monster meat (an by extension, eggs) into 40 health.

I wouldn't say that the system that we have at the moment in UM is perfect by any means, but, because it's a mod, we can actively take criticism and adjust recipes waaaaay faster than if klei were to try and change it.

So yeah, I don't think klei should nerf the recipes, leave that stuff to hard mode mods like CTC, UM, FAF, etc. 

I understand Mods could solve this but at the end of the day then that is just another mod to be added onto a game that I already have 10 mods added onto already. 

I always like seeing content added to DST that does not require a mod lol.

When they finally added the quick drop into DST I think I spit out my water in my mouth I was so happy. Those little things like that take 0 to no effort to add into the base game that finally not having to require a mod anymore to have that functionality is so nice to see.

[HowlVoid]

 

3 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

 

Kelp can be a hassle to set up, as you need to find Lunar inorder to get a good amount of stalks to transplant.

Yes it is a more late game alternative. My point was that nerfing meatballs because they are cheap is strange when there are far cheeper food sources. 

3 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

You can't get lureplants until spring, and even then you're looking at only 2-3 lureplants a year.

They are just another example. Thing is you don't have to choose one or the other. Nothing stops you from having bee boxes, kelp, a few lureplants, stone bushes, bunny farms, spider farms, barnacles etc. When there is so much "instant" food why are we nerfing meatballs?

Especially since rwys introduced a new meta. Just eat raw pumpkins all year long. If we are just talking filling foods, there are better things out there.

[Cheggf]

Meatballs isn't even a particularly powerful recipe and frankly kind of sucks unless you're Wigfrid or Warly. Most ways you can make it don't add any notable amount of hunger and possibly even take some away. Pierogi is a good healing food but not really any stronger than other options such as potatoes.

1 hour ago, AllFunNGamez said:

For example Autumn (meatballs give normal hunger etc) Once winter hits foods such as Honey Ham and Other Themed Recipes give you more

Nerf the bad recipe, buff the good recipe that lasts 50% longer and restores 900% more health?

1 hour ago, AllFunNGamez said:

Also this is coming from someone who only eats meatballs in DST. 

So stop doing that if you don't like it. Meatballs basically needs to be made with ice (which can be used with much, much better things such as asparagazpacho & banana pops) in order for it to be worth it as a normal character, but if you're putting in all the effort to gather a bunch of ice and a bunch of monster meat you could have just put in the effort to get better food sources.

Bacon & eggs and honey ham both last a lot longer than meatballs (B&E twice as long) as well as restoring a lot more health (Honey ham 10x as much). Meaty stew is a lot more efficient hunger-wise than the rest, but is more of a situational recipe. There's plenty of farm crops that you can just eat raw like potatoes, pumpkins, and corn. Jerky & raw honey are also better than meatballs.

[AllFunNGamez]

2 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

So stop doing that if you don't like it. Meatballs basically needs to be made with ice (which can be used with much, much better things such as asparagazpacho & banana pops) in order for it to be worth it as a normal character, but if you're putting in all the effort to gather a bunch of ice and a bunch of monster meat you could have just put in the effort to get better food sources.

 

But Meatballs are so addicting they too easy to make and so good for you

[Friendly Grass]

It annoys me when ice and twigs are considered free or a negligible cost. Just because they’re easy to get does not make them free, and the cost can really add up if you’re thinking of a consistent, long term food source.

[Electroely]

15 minutes ago, Tarciso said:

Neither buff nor nerf. The game has enough recipes for you to choose your favorites or the ones that best suit your situation.

I think it would be good to buff some of the recipes that practically no one talks about ATM because of how negligible they are. Cooking as a whole isn't a single, centralized chunk of the game - it brings more options to many different parts of the game, such as hunting, farming and fishing.

The best example would be Fish Tacos - They're Corn's only "edible" crockpot recipe, but they're worse than Fishsticks in practically every. single. possible. way. You can take just about any Fish Tacos recipe and swap the corn for a twig and you'll get Fish sticks instead. Fish sticks give 40 hp as opposed to 20, same hunger and sanity, and spoil in 10 days as opposed to 6. The only advantage fish tacos have is a faster cook time, but that does make up for everything else. Pierogies and Barnacle Nigiri have a similar relationship, but at least Nigiri has the same stats as Pierogies so the faster cook time comes as "cook now, eat now" kind of perk. If I were to buff Fish Tacos, I'd give them 40 health and something between 15 and 33 sanity.

3 minutes ago, AllFunNGamez said:

But Meatballs are so addicting they too easy to make and so good for you

Relying on a strategy that has worked for you is fine, but I don't see it as any grounds to nerf it at all. You should really be able to try different options yourself rather than wait for the game to take away your preferred option. Plus, meatballs with their relatively low spoilage time make pretty bad food for going out of base compared to Bacon and Eggs or even Honey Ham.