DaZoul Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Seems like Ancient Herald has more to do with this stuff than I first presumed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirToastyToes Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 Found these two quotes in the files and confirmed that Wagstaff says them if you're with him in a moonstorm when the Champion is defeated (Before phasing out and teleporting to the site where the Champion dies for his little cutscene) Two things: - Wagstaff knew the Champion would be sent to stop us ("Can only mean one thing" means he was accounting for this exact situation) - He knew we would defeat it for him and give him easy access to all that dank moon energy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinknAllie Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 I haven't seen anyone talk about this yet but Wormwood's line for the Enlighted Crown is a bit strange. He usually says "Night ball" when something even remotely relates the the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlVoid Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 1 hour ago, LinknAllie said: I haven't seen anyone talk about this yet but Wormwood's line for the Enlighted Crown is a bit strange. He usually says "Night ball" when something even remotely relates the the moon. I made a theory that "Them" might include the moon.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebberMain Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 23 hours ago, HowlVoid said: I made a theory that "Them" might include the moon.... Maybe he is talking about the whispers Alter/Moon seems to produce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlVoid Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 7 minutes ago, WebberMain said: Maybe he is talking about the whispers Alter/Moon seems to produce He refers to it as Them which is the term used for the hidden entity. The drop is a moon item To me it implies alter is one of them. At this point alter/the moon are interchangeable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeglefire Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 I can't help but notice, if you rearrange the letters in "Alter" to form a new word, you get "Real t", and then adding in the two letters "i" and "y" you get: "Reality". Like "Enlightenment = reality" vs the upcoming battle against "Nightmares = dreams and fantasy". I think I'm in the rabbit hole too deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebberMain Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 10 hours ago, HowlVoid said: He refers to it as Them which is the term used for the hidden entity. The drop is a moon item To me it implies alter is one of them. At this point alter/the moon are interchangeable to me. Nope,if this would be the case,the T would be capital,thus Them.The devs pay attention to the T when they want to imply Them.I believe this is intentional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeezSorry Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 I feel as if this is the beginning of the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeklo Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 16 hours ago, WebberMain said: Nope,if this would be the case,the T would be capital,thus Them.The devs pay attention to the T when they want to imply Them.I believe this is intentional. I was going to correct Howl on this as well, but Wormwood makes it a bit tricky. I don't disagree necessarily, but do wanna point out: A - Wormwood's capitalization is weird in general. B - Unlike most who refer to 'Them' (ie. Maxwell, Fuelweaver, etc) Wormwood probably isn't actually familiar with 'Them'. So he may be referring to 'Them' without realizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlVoid Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 On 4/28/2021 at 5:50 PM, Zeklo said: I was going to correct Howl on this as well, but Wormwood makes it a bit tricky. I don't disagree necessarily, but do wanna point out: A - Wormwood's capitalization is weird in general. B - Unlike most who refer to 'Them' (ie. Maxwell, Fuelweaver, etc) Wormwood probably isn't actually familiar with 'Them'. So he may be referring to 'Them' without realizing. And now? Am I right? Or am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeklo Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 34 minutes ago, HowlVoid said: And now? Am I right? Or am I right? I don't think any information we currently have will answer that. The 'they' in question here is undoubtedly the Moon. The characters have been hearing it since assembling the Celestial Pillars & the Gestalts. That's easy enough to piece together. We still lack confirmation on who 'They' (capital) are, so there's no factual conclusion yet. Are 'They' Metheus? Alter? Both? Neither? Maybe we'll get a confirmed answer next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebberMain Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 4 hours ago, Zeklo said: I don't think any information we currently have will answer that. The 'they' in question here is undoubtedly the Moon. The characters have been hearing it since assembling the Celestial Pillars & the Gestalts. That's easy enough to piece together. We still lack confirmation on who 'They' (capital) are, so there's no factual conclusion yet. Are 'They' Metheus? Alter? Both? Neither? Maybe we'll get a confirmed answer next week. Metheus being Them?A pawn being the player?I don´t really think so.We are Charlies pawns,and she is Their pawn(if Metheus possesed Charlie of course).I so badly need the next update to be shadow (Them) focused. #teamshadows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minespatch Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 I get the feeling that Charlie isn't a villain, just one of many antagonists. Who knows what Klei is planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GelatinousCube Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 1 minute ago, minespatch said: I get the feeling that Charlie isn't a villain, just one of many antagonists. Who knows what Klei is planning. Really hope we save her from the throne eventually (and unlock her as a player) and a new antagonist takes over - Them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebberMain Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said: Really hope we save her from the throne eventually (and unlock her as a player) and a new antagonist takes over - Them. The shadows or the moon?The term Them seems confusing as of lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minespatch Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, WebberMain said: The shadows or the moon?The term Them seems confusing as of lately Please Klei, maybe just drop a hard definition for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GelatinousCube Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 9 minutes ago, WebberMain said: The shadows or the moon?The term Them seems confusing as of lately Whoever Them is! I have no clue who Them are at the moment.. I had always thought it was some group of powerful entities that exist across multiple worlds (Forge, Gorge, Constant etc) that were the cause of the Ancients downfall, Pugna's downfall and the cause of the Gorge world's calamity (Is the Gnaw one of Them?) and are also the main driving primordial forces behind these twisted worlds. They somehow influence whoever is on the Nightmare Throne. Now though I have no clue if Alter is one of them or what they are. Eagerly awaiting more lore tidbits that give us a bit more of an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebberMain Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Just now, GelatinousCube said: Whoever Them is! I have no clue who Them are at the moment.. I had always thought it was some group of powerful entities that exist across multiple worlds (Forge, Gorge, Constant etc) that were the cause of the Ancients downfall, Pugna's downfall and the cause of the Gorge world's calamity (Is the Gnaw one of Them?) and are also the main driving primordial forces behind these twisted worlds. They somehow influence whoever is on the Nightmare Throne. Now though I have no clue if Alter is one of them or what they are. Eagerly awaiting more lore tidbits that give us a bit more of an idea. I always assumed Them are Shadows,"The Moon" is Alter and gnaw is just that gigantic wormhole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plagezeichen Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 I think They are both shadow and moon, so They is litterally meant as a plural. In the same sense, in greek mythology there are two Metheuses, Epimetheus, "god" of hindsight and Prometheus, "god" of foresight so it may just be that both Metheuses are Them or more cofusingly worded Metheus are Them (or at least part of Them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GelatinousCube Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, WebberMain said: I always assumed Them are Shadows,"The Moon" is Alter and gnaw is just that gigantic wormhole I've never agreed with the Them = Shadow creatures idea. Shadow Creatures to me are the twisted remnants of the ancients after their civilisation fell and their souls (or whatever) were corrupted/tainted by nightmare fuel or Them. There is just so much importance and emphasis placed on Them and their influence within the constant so I feel like it would be weird for them to just be the shadow creatures we kill on the regular. At the moment I am thinking that Alter and Gnaw are both members of Them and they are just giant nasty entities that feed off/influence the worlds they inhabit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebberMain Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said: I've never agreed with the Them = Shadow creatures idea. Shadow Creatures to me are the twisted remnants of the ancients after their civilisation fell and their souls (or whatever) were corrupted/tainted by nightmare fuel or Them. There is just so much importance and emphasis placed on Them and their influence within the constant so I feel like it would be weird for them to just be the shadow creatures we kill on the regular. At the moment I am thinking that Alter and Gnaw are both members of Them and they are just giant nasty entities that feed off/influence the worlds they inhabit. Sorry for the misunderstanding,i meant Shadows as the Shadow gods(The Eye from the gateway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeklo Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 1 hour ago, WebberMain said: Metheus being Them?A pawn being the player?I don´t really think so.We are Charlies pawns,and she is Their pawn(if Metheus possesed Charlie of course).I so badly need the next update to be shadow (Them) focused. #teamshadows The players are anyone's pawns really. Most characters don't know squat about the bigger picture. Wagstaff used us pretty well in this update. I'm not so sure on Charlie being "Their" pawn though. If I'm to guess, "They" have been out of the picture for a while. The shadowified Ancients (Shadow Creatures) and shadowified Ancient Throne (Nightmare Throne) have been running most of the show up until now. Skip to the present and now we got Charlie (potentially merged with the Ancient Torch Bearer) trying to reawakening these higher beings we know as "Them". That's how I see it at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebberMain Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, Zeklo said: The players are anyone's pawns really. Most characters don't know squat about the bigger picture. Wagstaff used us pretty well in this update. I'm not so sure on Charlie being "Their" pawn though. If I'm to guess, "They" have been out of the picture for a while. The shadowified Ancients (Shadow Creatures) and shadowified Ancient Throne (Nightmare Throne) have been running most of the show up until now. Skip to the present and now we got Charlie (potentially merged with the Ancient Torch Bearer) trying to reawakening these higher beings we know as "Them". That's how I see it at least. Why can´t we just get the answer straight from the source?@Mr.Skitts Tell us something about your masters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim S. Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Now that we know the "Moon" is fake, does the Sun harbor secrets too? Looking back, we were actually quite well-informed about the nature of the moon..("The cave provides sanctuary from the "moon's" prying eyes." - Maxwell, inspecting Moon Dial in Caves) (" "Moon" detritus." - Maxwell, inspecting Moon Glass) We don't have any suspicious remarks about the sun, as far as I'm aware.. If there is an Alter-like shadow force, I always thought it was inside of the earth, below the caves, judging from parallels between celestial fissures and nightmare lights+obelisks.. I thought it's stupid how the Ancients would escape from the moons "prying eyes" and travel underground, just to build a Gateway to the moon/the Eye and sap energy from it. Also i found it weird, how the murals depicted the Eye pitch-black with a thulecite-colored iris, if Alter is obviously white and they definitely had white paint. Unless of course Alter changes color when he's awake, but you get where I'm coming from. Spoiler Not quite Alters color-scheme Also it seemed weird how the claws of the depicted dark energy (even before the Gateways meltdown) were coming out of the ground, not from above So I assumed the Archive-Ancients were sapping Alter-Energy and Knowledge through the portal, but sealed it and turned away from lunar-worshipping when they realized the consequences of Alter waking up. Following that, I thought they repeated the same mistakes the elders made and sapped energy from another source, this time the weird dark Eye from inside the constants core (?). Afterwards everything came crashing down, the shadow-eye stayed awake (which is why shadows lurk everywhere and there's still an open eye above the king, even after the Gateway was destroyed). The sun doesn't fit in there at all. In no way. Even the Shadow Chesspieces get strong enough to materialize during the New Moon, not during the day. Maxwells quote "The... "moon"... has retreated for now." regarding New-Moon-Moondials explain the shadow figures rise in power. BUT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SUN SO WHY IS THERE A SUN IN THE METHEUS PUZZLE GATEWAY????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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