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2021 Roadmap Character Refresh Discussion


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When the 2021 Roadmap came out, it indroduced a lot of things, and a couple things that caught my eye were, A: The new DLC character coming this year, but that's a whole new can of worms. and B: The 3 character refreshes. And thats where I'm getting at, since IDK when the next thing will happen, I'm opening up this discussion: Who do you think will be reworked first, why, and what are some things you'd want to see in said rework?

You can go leave comments now, but I am super happy that one of my topics reached 2 pages, I know this isn't like Youtube where that earns me money, but it's nice to know that people are finding my topics.

- Dragolantis

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Webber will probably be reworked first since it's the one people cry the most about. I'm just hoping for some Wolfgang refresh. Not because he needs it but because he has nothing iconic to his character and brings zero lore to the table. Maxwell found the Codex Umbra after the whole circus incident yet all they gave Wolfgang since the game came out was "hehe he likes potatos"

Wendy already had her pet yet they still gave her 9999 potions AND a building you put flowers on. Give the poor man an AOE circus hammer or something.

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The characters most in need of it- Wes, Wilson, Wolfgang.

But the ones probably getting reworked- Webber, Wickerbottom & Wagstaff.

Unless they’re planning to count Wagstaff as the BNC.. either way- he’s been requested a lot so I realistically can’t see Klei NOT putting him in the game in some way or another.

Even though he’s OP as all Heck & would be incredibly broken for DST..

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I think Wormwood actually needs one ngl. I doubt it, but hear me out. Wormwood is a character that has a few useful unique crafts, can plant seeds anywhere but loses sanity when plants are hurt/picked, takes more fire damage and can't gain health from food. Sounds balanced right? Wrong. The farming overhaul completely makes his ability to plant seeds anywhere useless because farms are now useful and easier to obtain. Anybody with a little bit of competence can make an alc at day 1 or 2 and considering a thingamajig takes 2 boards 1 rope and 4 flint, you can get 36 spots for seeds by day 1-2 as well. And considering how I think Wormwoods wild crops can't be watered, his wild crops are useless. Which really makes his only upside his green thumb tab that gives him an AOE tooth trap, a thorns chestplate from minecraft, and living logs at the cost of valuable health, and that's not even covering the fact that you either have to have owned Hamlet, PAY MONEY to get one of his chests or for skins to get the spools necessary to unlock him or grind for 20 years to get the spools. And after all that, you tell me if wormwood is balanced.

Now I just wanted to rant on how wormwood is essentially useless and I shouldn't have wasted my spools on him, I doubt he'll get an update bc he was ported over from hamlet and just by showing up in DST alone could be considered giving him a refresh. But wormwood is an interesting character concept and functions well in DS where they still have the old farms, but with the farming overhaul he went from a character I was excited to buy and play, to a useless lump of living logs, AOE traps, and thorns chest armor that I wouldn't be seen playing as. I kno I commented on my own post, but I feel like it needs to be done.

Hope I didn't piss too many ppl off - Dragolantis

@Mike23Ua  I agree with most of your thoughts on who will be added/reworked except for 2: Wilson is the default character and IDT they'll ever rework him as he's the basis that most characters are compared to. He's the control variable in this experiment. The only thing I could understand if they reworked him would be to give him a portable Sci Station (I found the idea from someone else and I really liked it), which would make him a good choice for ppl learning the game, as not only does he provide built in insulation to help new ppl with winter, but if he came with a portable sci station? it would introduce new ppl to the idea of prototyping and could be useful to existing players as they could use it while out and about without having to gravitate towards a base.

The other thing I do not agree with is Wagstaff being added. His perk of seeing hidden dangers was kinda given to wurt, and we already have someone to build PERMANENT STRUCTURES OF CONVENIENCE, Winonna, add that to the fact I'm pretty sure u need Hamlet to get him, and we already have wormwood, he really isn't needed, Ik we have a character from SW already, warly in DST, but I feel if they were to add an existing character from one of the DLC I'd say Walani would be nice, Woodlegs would go insane in the first couple days, and even if he were to be able to build a modified version of his boat, it's really hard to have a nomadic sea playstyle in DST, and I seriously doubt you could make a sea base out there. Wilbur's perks are kinda nonexistent other than his running, bc splumonkies don't give a frick about him and he'd become another challenge character. Walani could keep her surfboard which would be really great for early ocean exploring, and her ability to quickly dry is also really good during spring where it rains a lot. She'd be a good pick for lunar rushers and ppl starting in spring.

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i wish the next ones will be weeber and wx. They have a lot of potential to be fun characters but right now weeber is a good character but almost a monster wilson which is sad since he has potential to be more and wx because his gears perk is bad in a multiplayer environment and being a robot could bring a lot of crazy fun things

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1 hour ago, Dragolantis said:

The farming overhaul completely makes his ability to plant seeds anywhere useless because farms are now useful and easier to obtain.

Huh?


His plant anywhere ability, combined with his auto-tending perk while blooming, makes Wormwood ridiculously good at mass producing food. Wormwood can plant literally hundreds of seeds in about a day, leave them be and come back a few days later to collect hundreds of veggies and seeds. Combined with gift wraps or bundling wraps, Wormwood can single-handedly produce enough food with 2 days of work (the crops need no maintenance in between, so you can do whatever you want while they grow) to feed the average player for a few in-game years.

If anyone else wants to get anywhere near that level of output, they need to either create tons of permanent farm land and spend twice as much time (at a minimum) to till and plant the seeds OR they need to aim for giant crops, which still requires a hefty amount of space and time, as well as a (literal) crap-ton of fertilizer and constant maintenance. (Sure, you can do combos, but that means diluting your output with plants you don't actually want, solely to balance out the nutrients.)

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Wormwood is better than he’s ever been now, if they gave him any further perks he would go from challenge character to being “too” good.

No one bought Wormwood to insta-grow plants, at least I didn’t anyway.. I bought him for unique gameplay of food not healing him and picking plants/chopping trees harming his Sanity.

Wormwoods in a really REALLY good spot now, you should see my base as Wormwood, it’s covered in Lureplants: I don’t NEED any other type of traps Lureplants do the job effectively enough on their own but for added security you can make his green thumb crafts if you want.

Lureplants and Seaweed Barnacle both are peaceful to Wormwood so use them to your advantage.

his forced bloom movement speed buff is incredibly useful & his plant anywhere perks still work.. just throw a seed in the dirt without a garden rig-a-majig and as an added bonus a Wormwood in Bloom only needs to run around in circles in a field of crops to instantly tend to their needs.

Hes also completely immune to sanity drain effects from spring rainfall now.

He’s one of the last characters on the list I expect to see reworked.

Wilson on the other hand: has journeyed through 5 randomly generated worlds, took pity upon Maxwell freeing him from his imprisonment and taking his place.

DST picks up where that game left off: Wilson is sitting on the Throne when Charlie comes to free him from it.

Both Maxwell & Charlie gained strange new powers from their time occupying the nightmare throne, but Wilson who sat upon this same nightmare throne has learned nothing?

The age of using characters to determine how easy/hard or completely default our gameplay is going to be has come and gone... now with options like 

“NONE” for Insanity Creatures or “TONS” they manage to do that job more effectively then the character choices did.

So I say give Wilson the refresh he rightfully deserves, as the second of three people to take up the Nightmare thrones mantle give him a Rework that reflects on this.

Heck they can even lock it behind some really high tier craftables or something that require forgotten knowledge craft machine or whatever to create. 
 

but in my opinion it’s just not going to sit right with me at all if the one character who actually conquered all of the constants challenges Maxwell could throw at him remains to be complete boring & default.

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my feelings say this year reworks are

webber i alredy got ideas for him in another disscusion

wolfgang im not sure some sord to lift statues and the likes more easy

wicker more differend books 

and if im at this about feelings of a new character what they could be are

wagstaff because lore

warbucks because of a dream i had

and a new character that i was thinkin about because its goin to be a "dlc" character and all of them are none humans so i was thinkin and was like "wolfgang is all about attack but wigfried has both attack and defense what if there is an character that is all about defense?" so i came up whit something that would make most sense for defense only and i came up whit a knight i mean they wear heavy armor and all but then was thinkin the "none human" part and was more thinkin and was like "well knights hunt dragons dont they?" so i was thinkin about a lizard knight

well that was fun i soupose

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5 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

His craft definitely need some work. They are great on paper but lackluster in actual practice.  

the armor is very useful so players can get cactis and twigs from dessert (that grows in winter) without losing hp, the recipe is way cheaper since the rotten fish change

the compost was way too buffed

the traps are meh but has his uses

and crafting a living log for 20hp is great

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3 hours ago, Dragolantis said:

 

I'm really sorry to hear you think he is useless, because he isn't. Wormwood is one of the most self sufficient characters in the game. However, his perks and abilities are a little hidden if you don't know what to look for. His two biggest perks atm are:

1. His ease of healing outside of battle.

2. His ability to gain a speed buff at any time.

MUSHROOM PLANTER: A great item that can take care of his hunger and sanity issues no problem.

COMPOST BIN: Having 3 going at once will easily top off his hp.

BAT BAT: Pair this with a marble suit and you can easily kill beequeen for better healing item. Also, a few seed negate the sanity drain. Not used as a main weapon btw, switch to it when you need hp.

His only downside is the fact that he has no way to deal a little extra damage so big hp pool bosses can take a while. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the armor is very useful so players can get cactis and twigs from dessert (that grows in winter) without losing hp, the recipe is way cheaper since the rotten fish change

Cactus is not that useful to wormwood. I dont like that one of my crafts isnt too useful to myself. I get plenty of sanity grom planting mushrooms in my planters and sowing seeds. 

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the compost was way too buffed

Compost was terrible in boss battles due to the long animation. Any emergency healing was easily cut due to taking damage during the animation. 

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the traps are meh but has his uses

Traps are useless in comparison to a few bunnymen and a flingo. 

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and crafting a living log for 20hp is great

Having the halloween event on at any time and mushgnomes have made this more of a parlor trick than anything. Even I as wormwood make the lab so I dont have to keep losing hp.

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I had no clue that Wormwood auto tended to plants when in bloom, forgot that growth formula can force it, and didn't know that watering was unnecessary, you all proved some good points to counteract my argument I'm ngl, I thought he needed one bc I didn't know about these features. This actually makes me wanna play him again.

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1 minute ago, Dragolantis said:

I had no clue that Wormwood auto tended to plants when in bloom, forgot that growth formula can force it, and didn't know that watering was unnecessary, you all proved some good points to counteract my argument I'm ngl, I thought he needed one bc I didn't know about these features. This actually makes me wanna play him again.

i recommend you to read the rwys update, it changed a lot wormwood. He is way more fun and still being one of the best characters to play with people

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I also heard @HowlVoid Mention how compost bins produce easy health for wormwood, and i must agree, with 3 seeds and 3 cones, you can get 3 compost in 2 days if you don't keep filling it, and each compost giving wormwood 8 health over 8 seconds, and when you have 3 of these all churning out compost, like @HowlVoid said, health doesn't seem like an issue.

Also thank you @QuartzBeam for seeing my post I read your farming topic.

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I have a few ideas, some for who I WANT to be refreshed, and some that probably are

I love Wortox but maybe he could use a rework. I really don't know what they would change, but he's rather overpowered. Then again, there are always going to be characters that are stronger than others so maybe he's good.

A WX rework would be great, I love my boy but he's sort of.. just there. Maybe some sort of charging system? Instead of his overcharge he has a charge meter and if his charge meter gets low he acts more sluggish (Slower, less damage). Obviously his charge should last pretty long, maybe a charging station or just electrical doodads to recharge him? Also like how there is a sanity drain in caves he could have a sanity drain while on a boat, though this might be more of a buff than a nerf because of enlightenment, so maybe a different debuff for boats.

Wolfgang, honestly I'm pretty sure he needs a rework but I don't play as him and don't know anyone who does, so all I know of him is more food = stronger, faster, ect. and that might be all there is too him therefore why he needs a rework.

I think Wurt might have needed a tiny rework prior to Reap What You Sow, but just being able to grow crops in winter now gives her a big boost (also I'd love her no matter what with that new goat skin :wilson_love:)

Webber needs a rework in my opinion because pretty much everything he does, you can do later game just slightly differently. Want to make a spider war? Just make a pig war instead or murk a spider queen and, tadaa. Want to make a spider nest? Just wait for some far away to get to tier 3 and relocate them, also don't destroy nests before tier 3. He really just needs something that makes him Different. Wurt is a great example of this, with the merm houses, warrior merms, clever disguises, and especially the merm king! I think that a disguise that webber could make to trick spiders is a beautiful idea, though also they probably don't just want to copy and paste wurt onto spider boy.

Wicker is another character I don't know very much about as I don't play as her nor know anyone who does, but I'm pretty sure Reap What You Sow messed her up big time (badly) and they also split her applied horticulture into two seperate books which I personally think is dumb.

I love what they've done with the reworks so far, so no matter what they are I'm very excited to see them, along with that DLC character. Personally I'm hoping it's a new character, not one we've seen before. Love you Klei

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1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wormwood is better than he’s ever been now, if they gave him any further perks he would go from challenge character to being “too” good..

Wormwood was never ment to be a challenge character. This is a misconception derived from one of his downsides being "hard" to manage. He is extremely powerful in hamlet.

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I'm 90% sure the next one will be Webber because Webber stinks like loser and he can cry about it. My next guess would be WX because WX would stink like loser if he had pores, but he doesn't, so instead he's just a bland and boring character that doesn't really do much despite having such a high cost.

I really doubt the next character is going to be anyone other than Webber or WX. Wilson is Posterboy the Intentionally bland, Wolfgang is good & fun with it being controversial to even say he should be reworked (but I think he should), Wickerbottom is very powerful but kind of bland, Maxwell is very powerful & fun & kind of already got reworked.

My guess is it's going to be Webber, then WX, then Wickerbottom or maybe Wolfgang. 

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37 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Compost was terrible in boss battles due to the long animation. Any emergency healing was easily cut due to taking damage during the animation. 

Admittedly that was kind of doomed from the start. When you have a long windup animation and it heals 30 HP (and I think used to be 20 HP in Hamlet pre patch?), it severely cuts usefulness of using it as a healing item. It's why I always would strive for Wormwood to go for honey poultice. It also heals 30 HP and the animation is short enough to get some merit out of fights.

The reworked wrap contributes all 3 effects (initial heal, slow over time heal and speed), but it actually lost HP gain even if you factor in the overtime effect. The speed absolutely covers it though, which does make it pretty nice early on up until the midgame, when you likely are getting bottles to more easily proc the bloom.

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