Wurt Poll

[Mysterious box]

Made a poll to see how people would feel about a upgrade to Wurts interactions with merms and the possibly of expanding the concept of building a merm kingdom give me your thoughts.

[Viktor234]

I'd like to see a reason for Wurt to actually care about the Merm King. Right now it's more effective to watch the Merm King die and to make a new king instead of keeping him alive with food.

[Sub-Maxwell]

I really love Wurt’s play style, but I’ve put a lot of thought into this topic myself.

My main problems with Wurt aren’t necessarily with merm interactions, but more about team interaction. The two things that come to mind are that I can‘t use trinkets with Pig King, which is how I tend to stock up on gold, and that Wurt’s craftables promote a solo-swamp playstyle.

The gold could be solved in two ways- bring the Shamlet mask over from Hamlet (which would help Webber, Wortox AND Wurt) or just make merm king give gold for trinkets. As for how to improve co-op, the Clever Disguise could be made infinite like the Bush Hat, which could allow for better immersion of other players into the merm playstyle. Fishermerms could benefit everyone by providing food for the team and more fish for Wurt to craft huts with. That said, being a pescatarian rather than a vegetarian could let her make surf and turf and seafood gumbo, which would open up a bit more options for cooking. Exclusive crafts would be nice, but I can’t think of a particular thing that would fit her playstyle that she doesn’t already have.

These are just some ideas, I’d be happy to hear any feedback other people have!

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

I'd like to see a reason for Wurt to actually care about the Merm King. Right now it's more effective to watch the Merm King die and to make a new king instead of keeping him alive with food.

and the presents system... fishing to get klept and rot...

[Sweaper]

Making merms pacifists for having a king is pretty hit and miss, good for closed servers if you have merms around the base, but bad when you want to use the merms to guard your food in the caves/swamp in pubs. Wish there was a way to control their aggro independently of just having a king or not.

[Mike23Ua]

I just want to be able to equip my Merm guards in heavy Hamlet style metal body armor and let them carry Halberds for me- How’s that for Merm evolution?

(on a side note: playing Hamlet and seeing how advanced the pigs have become... the Merm-Pig War is over with no contest.... Pigs Win.)

[Mysterious box]

13 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

Making merms pacifists for having a king is pretty hit and miss, good for closed servers if you have merms around the base, but bad when you want to use the merms to guard your food in the caves/swamp in pubs. Wish there was a way to control their aggro independently of just having a king or not.

I just wish they aggro'd on things that are clearly a threat with a king.

[NoscopeFelix]

1 hour ago, Viktor234 said:

I'd like to see a reason for Wurt to actually care about the Merm King. Right now it's more effective to watch the Merm King die and to make a new king instead of keeping him alive with food.

Maybe give the player like a tiny debuff for a while after the king died(like less attack and being slower maybe to make it a harsh impact) Or the king gives better and better rewards the longer he has been alive.

[Viktor234]

17 minutes ago, NoscopeFelix said:

Maybe give the player like a tiny debuff for a while after the king died(like less attack and being slower maybe to make it a harsh impact) Or the king gives better and better rewards the longer he has been alive.

Just anything that prevents the player from summoning Loyal Merm Guards by killing the Merm King and/or rewards Wurts who do actually care for their King. Besides that, other non-Wurt players should be punished less if their Wurt doesn't care for the King, especially to make it more comfortable for other players if their base is close to a Wurt base.

Using the Merm King as Fish and Frog Leg farm ain't that negative, considering that a Bunnyman farm feels like a way more effective food farm.

[Brubs]

Her interaction with merms are pretty decent. Merms could use some work though. Not being able to know when they are hungry without mods, merms being rather dull ( stepping into fire, not being able to return to their home) and them not defending Wurt when she gets hit are some QoL changes that would make sense.

Also personally i would like better interaction with fishes, but thats just for Wurt herself. Maybe fishing lasting even longer than now  in her inventory and some buffs while being at certain level of wetness. This would in my opinion help her develop more as a see navigator oriented character.

[Scrimbles]

Wurt has no substantial downside that makes her interesting to play, she doesn't need to rely on her merms, she doesn't have any synergy with crops (while being a vegetarian), and she doesn't have any depth to her main claim to fame, which is her "base building".

 

Merms are glorified pigs, debatably harder to get, and slightly more effective.

The improved resource collection, and some extra fighters are nice to have but is more of a slight convenience, especially when Wurt has zero problems with fighting, or resource collection. Her reason for building their houses come purely from having an abundance of late game resources.

 

Warrior Merms are a step up from bunny men, but they require the constant maintenance of the Merm King, who I believe has too high of a hunger drain, and considering Wurt has no improved way to farm resources (and has no vegetarian crockpot foods that fill large amounts of hunger efficiently), he's more of a late game commodity, by which time experienced players should already be in a position where they don't even need the extra help.

 

So her entire "base building" style is just glorified pigs, the only unique thing is she gets a stat boost from the Merm king, and Merms can mine rocks. The Merm kings rewards are largely pointless, by the time you are ready to start getting rewards from him you could probably just find the moon island and bring some seaweed stalks back to your base, and start gaining more from them than the Merm king could give you for fishing over a long period of time.

 

So, she is a Vegetarian with increased stats for eating vegetables, which doesn't make that downside particularly damaging, and shes a base builder with glorified pigs. She has less interesting food options, and a reskin of what most other survivors can also get. No extra downsides or upsides that are substantial enough to set her apart.

 

I would say the best way to make Wurt's gameplay actually stand out would be to put a larger emphasis on the base building aspect, give her farming Merm's that help grow crops for herself and her community, give her fishing Merm's whose fish could be exchanged to Merms or the King for rewards and increased working efficiency, let her make compost piles to help the farming Merms. Let her buff up her fighting and gathering Merm's with different vegetarian foods and variations of fish, she has NO reason to go ocean fishing.

Base her entire character off of the mechanics of Oxygen Not Included, would be a great tie in. Base builders and RTS mechanics are something that aren't explored within other characters, and Merms are a good opportunity to allow this kind of gameplay without breaking the feel of the rest of the game.

And please, add some more interesting vegetarian dishes, Wurt's options are too stifled, I swear its almost better to just eat the raw/cooked ingredients over making any dishes.

 

All of these improvements are theoretically possible, and actually quite easy for someone with experience, and I would love to mod them in myself if I wasn't busy with Uncompromising Mode, and I know it would take a large chunk of my time as a rather inexperienced coder to make, but I believe even I could code the things I'm asking for, with maybe a slighty headache.

[thegreatJash]

I like Wurt the way she is. Could use some more interactions with Merm King imo.

[minespatch]

I'd like Wurt to have special conversations with merms. Just little dialogues.

Kind of like when Walter does his gopher guts song.

[GuyNamedChris]

It'd be nice if you could get better rewards from Merm King depending on what you trade with him, or depending how long he's been alive to kinda promote caring for him more instead of the regicidal Merm civilization that's currently much more efficient.
It'd also be nice if a single Merm King's buffs reach other server shards so we don't need multiple Kings for the Surface and the Caves.

And like @Sub-Maxwell said, make the Clever Disguise infinite maintainable. It's extremely annoying to have a Wurt come into a server, build up a small Merm civilization, and leave without any way for the other survivors to have a long lasting way to interact with the Merms since the disguise expires too soon. A Wurt player shouldn't have to be present all the time for that kind of team interaction.

Another thing that bothers me about Wurt is her wetness interaction. She's a merm, she loves water, her quotes say so. Why does she lose sanity in the rain and from holding wet items?

This rework mod by @Electroely hits on almost every aspect I think should be changed about Wurt. I'm kinda surprised it's not official.

[ShadowDuelist]

2 hours ago, Chris1448 said:

make the Clever Disguise infinite

I agree with everything said in this thread, but I'm not so sure about the clever disguise thing, or at least it requires a bit more in depth thought.

I understand the problem that comes after Wurts have been building but they are not around to take care of their King or the merms, but if the clever disguise becomes infinite, Wurt will become the new improved  Winona, basically the late game character you switch to once, craft the merm soldier houses, the king, a couple of clever disguises, and change back to any other character, and never return as Wurt. And since the merm army is mobile across the same shard, it would be much more profitable investing in it rather than the catapults.

A few ways I can think of to prevent this, and still make Wurt relevant, would be that maybe non wurt players have a limited max amount of merms they can hire at any given time (EG: 4 per player). And if they implement a way to make merms fishers or farmers, non Wurt players can't access these features. Same goes for special interactions of trading with the Merm king, or Wurt getting better stats herself and for the other merms, only if the king has lived long enough.

TL;DR: With an infinite clever disguise, there must be some kind of irreplaceable synergy if the combination of King-Wurt is present at the same time. A merm army without Wurt should be clearly not as powerful or efficient as if there was a Wurt alive in the world.

 

 

 

[Primalflower]

All i'd really change is the merm king's tributes. I wish he could give gold or something else thats useful, so I'd have a reason to keep him alive thats seperate from just the stat bonuses & merm guards. 

 

Merms that pick stuff up for you would also be great, but i don't know how that'd work out in actual gameplay. 

[GuyNamedChris]

47 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

TL;DR: With an infinite clever disguise, there must be some kind of irreplaceable synergy if the combination of King-Wurt is present at the same time. A merm army without Wurt should be clearly not as powerful or efficient as if there was a Wurt alive in the world.

Good point, but maybe it'd be better if it had a durability instead of a spoilage meter? I just hate the fact it can't be renewed in any way outside of bundles.
Without a disguise, no player other than Wurt can feed Merm King, and the buffed and passive Merms/Merm Guards go away within a matter of days! After that, the whole Merm town your Wurt built up is useless since all those Merms go right back to being hostile. That sucks.

Though there should definitely be something Wurt could do uniquely through interaction with the Merm King!
I don't have any great ideas, aside from better trading depending on the fish offered to the King...? Wurt should benefit more greatly from the Merm King, and the rest of the survivors should have a long lasting way to interact with Merms and the King while a Wurt player isn't around.

TL;DR: I agree, survivors should have a way to maintain the Merm King while Wurt's not around, but Wurt should gain more benefit from Merms and the King in exchange. (i.e. better king trading, or getting to hire farmers/fishermerms like you suggested)

[Brubs]

4 hours ago, Chris1448 said:

It'd be nice if you could get better rewards from Merm King depending on what you trade with him, or depending how long he's been alive to kinda promote caring for him more instead of the regicidal Merm civilization that's currently much more efficient.

This would be great! Because honestly, right now is more fficient to just have one king starve to death because it takes a couple days and merms spawn faster than he takes to die, so theres literally no point in feeding the king at the moment.

I also agree with the other things mentioned:
*Better interaction between Wurt and Merms
*Go further with her wetness benefits
*Some QoL improvement for Merms

And those are the things i think are needed to be fixed asap. Just like Walter and Woby needed some attention i think its fair our girl receives the same treatment. But we have been asking for these changes for far too long and yet she keeps far from the radar

[sinisterrkid]

I love the suggestions and it would be great to see Wurt additions and tweaks. The tweaks would be the obvious and easy ones, like no sanity loss when wet and King's hunger going down slower. But I LOVE @Mysterious box 's idea of being able to spawn fisher merms (like in Shipwrecked) to fish for you, maybe once you give them food.

9 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I just wish they aggro'd on things that are clearly a threat with a king.

Also this

[MewUra]

On 6/27/2020 at 4:53 PM, Ogrecakes said:

Wurt has no substantial downside that makes her interesting to play, she doesn't need to rely on her merms, she doesn't have any synergy with crops (while being a vegetarian), and she doesn't have any depth to her main claim to fame, which is her "base building".

 

Merms are glorified pigs, debatably harder to get, and slightly more effective.

The improved resource collection, and some extra fighters are nice to have but is more of a slight convenience, especially when Wurt has zero problems with fighting, or resource collection. Her reason for building their houses come purely from having an abundance of late game resources.

 

Warrior Merms are a step up from bunny men, but they require the constant maintenance of the Merm King, who I believe has too high of a hunger drain, and considering Wurt has no improved way to farm resources (and has no vegetarian crockpot foods that fill large amounts of hunger efficiently), he's more of a late game commodity, by which time experienced players should already be in a position where they don't even need the extra help.

 

So her entire "base building" style is just glorified pigs, the only unique thing is she gets a stat boost from the Merm king, and Merms can mine rocks. The Merm kings rewards are largely pointless, by the time you are ready to start getting rewards from him you could probably just find the moon island and bring some seaweed stalks back to your base, and start gaining more from them than the Merm king could give you for fishing over a long period of time.

 

So, she is a Vegetarian with increased stats for eating vegetables, which doesn't make that downside particularly damaging, and shes a base builder with glorified pigs. She has less interesting food options, and a reskin of what most other survivors can also get. No extra downsides or upsides that are substantial enough to set her apart.

 

I would say the best way to make Wurt's gameplay actually stand out would be to put a larger emphasis on the base building aspect, give her farming Merm's that help grow crops for herself and her community, give her fishing Merm's whose fish could be exchanged to Merms or the King for rewards and increased working efficiency, let her make compost piles to help the farming Merms. Let her buff up her fighting and gathering Merm's with different vegetarian foods and variations of fish, she has NO reason to go ocean fishing.

Base her entire character off of the mechanics of Oxygen Not Included, would be a great tie in. Base builders and RTS mechanics are something that aren't explored within other characters, and Merms are a good opportunity to allow this kind of gameplay without breaking the feel of the rest of the game.

And please, add some more interesting vegetarian dishes, Wurt's options are too stifled, I swear its almost better to just eat the raw/cooked ingredients over making any dishes.

 

All of these improvements are theoretically possible, and actually quite easy for someone with experience, and I would love to mod them in myself if I wasn't busy with Uncompromising Mode, and I know it would take a large chunk of my time as a rather inexperienced coder to make, but I believe even I could code the things I'm asking for, with maybe a slighty headache.

Klei, please please please read this 

 

I really wanted Wurt to be able to build this structure, the Merm King even has a trident in his hand that they use to fish, he could teach the merms how to do, haha:

 

[Najaf]

On 6/27/2020 at 4:53 PM, Ogrecakes said:

I would say the best way to make Wurt's gameplay actually stand out would be to put a larger emphasis on the base building aspect, give her farming Merm's that help grow crops for herself and her community, give her fishing Merm's whose fish could be exchanged to Merms or the King for rewards and increased working efficiency, let her make compost piles to help the farming Merms. Let her buff up her fighting and gathering Merm's with different vegetarian foods and variations of fish, she has NO reason to go ocean fishing.

And please, add some more interesting vegetarian dishes, Wurt's options are too stifled, I swear its almost better to just eat the raw/cooked ingredients over making any dishes.

It would be so wonderful if it were implemented. I like her a lot, but it's impossible not to say that you feel a lack of synergy in her perks.

Please devs, give a little love to our innocent scale survivor.