Disease, why?

[Pruinae]

Like, give me 1 good reason please. Thanks.

Edit: I might sound like I am trying to be funny, but I really want to hear why people think disease should exist as it is right now.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

to dont be confortable gathering the same plants since day 1 so you must to get out of base to pick up more plants for your farms.

But sucks the ways of counter it

edit: i will be totaly agree with the mechanic if klei makes berry bushes renewable

[Pruinae]

32 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

to dont be confortable gathering the same plants since day 1 so you must to get out of base to pick up more plants for your farms.

I mean, it doesn't make sense to me. I had to put on the work to get all those plants there and then fertilize them (in case of grass and berries ofc), they didn't just walk there by themselves. Shouldn't I be able to reap the rewards?

[00petar00]

That's one game mechanic that most players actually turn off for every new world they make, at least all of them that plan to play on that world for 300-500 days or more.

Actually can't be countered, making a good looking base isn't possible either, they aren't renewable so once your grass/berry bushes die out, they are gone forever.

[ShadowDuelist]

In a long enough public server, where different  people comes and goes at different times, I can certify that going out to get more grass tufts and berry bushes as they slowly die (even if people does dig and replant once and then, just not perfectly) leads to not have any more grass plants or berries in the world at around day 1000.

This happened twice in our server already. It really is no fun.

[ZG17]

I hate disease and grass gekko which doesn't actually ruin my deliberate base but get it into mess.

It's annoying. 

[GenomeSquirrel]

2 hours ago, Pruinae said:

I mean, it doesn't make sense to me. I had to put on the work to get all those plants there and then fertilize them (in case of grass and berries ofc), they didn't just walk there by themselves. Shouldn't I be able to reap the rewards?

No, this game rewards cunning more than hard work, out smart disease and just dig up everything before it’s possible to rot, or don’t dig in the first place.

This series is a string of sucker punches, lethal darkness, winter killing you by cold and shutting off food, spring burning everything you have because you didn’t build one particular thing, summer burning everything because you didn’t build multiple different particular things. Disease is consistent with these; mix of surprise, ruination, and only proactive solutions.

And you shouldn’t call this hard work, you’d need to reach the grass anyhow, and the rest of the plan depends on rot and manure being lazier to obtain than reaching the grass’s original location.

[. . .]

i cant believe there is no cure

[Pruinae]

8 hours ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

This series is a string of sucker punches, lethal darkness, winter killing you by cold and shutting off food, spring burning everything you have because you didn’t build one particular thing, summer burning everything because you didn’t build multiple different particular things. Disease is consistent with these; mix of surprise, ruination, and only proactive solutions.

Ok, so:
Darkness - torches, firepits, lamps (both hand and toadstool), moggles, wx, abigail, full moon, fireflies, magiluminescence and probably way more ways to deal with that I can't think off the top of my head.
Cold - fire, clothes, thermal stones, sunfish, wx, jellybeans and probably some more.
Shutting Off Food - bundling wrap, spiders, ice, beefalo, stuff that grew and you didn't pick yet, jellybeans and more.
Lightning - flingos, lightning rod, rain, willow, wx, ice staff, water balloons and maybe more.
Wild Fire - flingos, basing at cave, basing at oasis, water ballons, ice staff, willow, moslings, purple staff and not likely many more.

Meanwhile, we have:
Disease - do everything you already did again, don't do it in the first place or use alternative ways to get the resource.

For everything you mentioned there are many different ways you can fight against, some ways are intuitive (cold = you need to warm yourself up), some are a thing you have to do once and then do a little maintenance from time to time or just do once and never again (in the case of the lightning rod, for example).

In the case of disease, you can only avoid the problem, you can't directly combat it.
Redig everything every X days - Boring and time consuming, if you want to use some for decoration you are going to redig those too, don't forget.
Don't dig anything in the first place - So I am unable to enjoy part of the game because of a boring mechanic, got it.
Alternative ways to get the resource - Sure, but twiggy trees aren't really efficient, berries don't even have one and you still won't be able to use twigs, grass and berries for decoration.
 

9 hours ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

And you shouldn’t call this hard work, you’d need to reach the grass anyhow, and the rest of the plan depends on rot and manure being lazier to obtain than reaching the grass’s original location.

I didn't say it is hard work. Anyway, getting all the stuff to plant doesn't take more than 2 days, and the fertilizer can be made with lightbulbs + werepig, which in of itself isn't something hard to do and can be done in as little as the first 6 days, possibly less, after a little training, but it is still something you don't get for free, you have to work for it. Only for you to have to redig everything during winter to plant again during spring, rinse and repeat many, many, many times. And as said before, you still can't use the stuff to decorate your base, it's something that takes away your options.

[Yuuko]

I don't think disease was a bad idea, but it is incomplete.  Right now it just punishes you for moving resources closer to your base without any option to prevent it.  I get why it exists, to give you more things to do / worry about!  The problem is without a good solution (redigging every 30 days is not a good solution) it just leads to people either turning it off, or not replanting things.  I remember when it first released and you could move deciduous terf over to cancel it, good times.

I just never dig up grass / twigs / berries.  If I ever do dig up grass its to set up a grass gekko farm, if I want a twig farm I'll use celestial portal to switch to Wormwood, make some bramble vests, and just use marsh twigs.  And berries?  I just never do anything with berries...  Stonefruit trees work well enough to never need berries again.  And since they both store really well, and have a path to disease free growth, I just stick with them.

[ADM]

Well, I did this topic last week and tried my best to give a good reason for disease to exists.

The only problem I have with is how it works on every plants regardless of the conditions of exploitation. If disease was a bit smarter there would be nothing to really complain about imo.

[Pruinae]

18 minutes ago, ADM said:

-snip-

Sorry about that, I don't even know myself why I decided to create another topic. Looking back to when I was creating this one I searched for "disease" in the forum's search bar, then I saw your topic and just thought "nope" and then created my own pretty much. I think it would be better to just keep the discussion in your topic. 
Here for the ones interested:

If a mod could lock this one I would be glad.

Just one more thing: Do you know what disease reminds me of? (눈_눈)
Terraria's bad torch luck mechanic. From what I've seen a dev didn't like people using the """wrong""" torches to light up certain biomes (lmao) so they made torches affect some RNG aspects, after community backlash they changed it so torches would only affect positively, otherwise they're neutral.

[Rinkusan]

I'm honestly surprised a disease cure recipe hasn't been implemented yet despite the idea lingering around for ages now. 

[blizstorm]

On 5/25/2020 at 10:18 AM, Pruinae said:

Like, give me 1 good reason please. Thanks.

To punish group of players who cant come up with rules and execute it? If everyone can be trained to run from base whenever hounds, deerclop or bearger is spawning, why not train everyone to dig up sapling and grass tuft every start of winter and mid summer? Learn to mitigate your risk also. rather than plant in clumps of 100s, how about doing in 20s? In dont starve alone, clumping all the buildings is the way to get never ending fire

 

or the alternatives that you refuse to take. twiggy tree is actually more efficient than plucking sapling manually, since the picking animation is shorter than the work animation. if you cant gather stacks of twigs at once, then you better work on storage to buffer the lean time. grass gekko farm for grass. There are also other strategies to counter disease. Perhaps you need to play more.

[Yuuko]

18 minutes ago, blizstorm said:

or the alternatives that you refuse to take. twiggy tree is actually more efficient than plucking sapling manually, since the picking animation is shorter than the work animation. if you cant gather stacks of twigs at once, then you better work on storage to buffer the lean time. grass gekko farm for grass. There are also other strategies to counter disease. Perhaps you need to play more.

I've tried setting up twiggy tree farms and they never felt like they worked really well.  It seems like their output is sporatic, it takes a while for their production to ramp up, and they are hella-laggy.

Anyone else have a better experience with them?

[mistrbushido]

12 minutes ago, blizstorm said:

To punish group of players who cant come up with rules and execute it? If everyone can be trained to run from base whenever hounds, deerclop or bearger is spawning, why not train everyone to dig up sapling and grass tuft every start of winter and mid summer? Learn to mitigate your risk also. rather than plant in clumps of 100s, how about doing in 20s? In dont starve alone, clumping all the buildings is the way to get never ending fire

When you have planted 100 grass tufts, it is extremely tedious to check every single one for disease. Sure you could dig all of them every 30 days to be safe, but no one's going to enjoy that task, right? At least with wildfires, you can fight them with flingomatics, which are much easier to maintain.

18 minutes ago, blizstorm said:

or the alternatives that you refuse to take. twiggy tree is actually more efficient than plucking sapling manually, since the picking animation is shorter than the work animation. if you cant gather stacks of twigs at once, then you better work on storage to buffer the lean time. grass gekko farm for grass. There are also other strategies to counter disease. Perhaps you need to play more.

I do agree with you on this. Grass geckos and twiggy trees are nice alternatives that require much less effort. Though keeping 30+ geckos loaded will cause lag on lower-end setups. Twiggy trees require more space. However, someone might want to farm grass/twigs with saplings/grass tufts using Wickerbottom+Lureplants.

[Rinkusan]

7 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I've tried setting up twiggy tree farms and they never felt like they worked really well.  It seems like their output is sporatic, it takes a while for their production to ramp up, and they are hella-laggy.

Anyone else have a better experience with them?

Did you plant the twiggy trees far apart from each other? I ask this because a lot of people I've seen in pub games plant them right next to each other, which actually does NOTHING because of the way twiggy trees generate a maximum of 2 twigs within a certain radius. What this means is that if you have 2 twiggy trees literally next to each other and there are already 2 twigs on the ground, that 2nd twiggy tree is doing literally nothing.

 

[Yuuko]

2 minutes ago, Rinkusan said:

Did you plant the twiggy trees far apart from each other? I ask this because a lot of people I've seen in pub games plant them right next to each other, which actually does NOTHING because of the way twiggy trees generate a maximum of 2 twigs within a certain radius. What this means is that if you have 2 twiggy trees literally next to each other and there are already 2 twigs on the ground, that 2nd twiggy tree is doing literally nothing.

 

I think that's part of the problem, I found out I had to place them further apart, but its very large and laggy area now.  I'd rather just do marsh bushes at that point lol  Or chase down tumbleweed spawners lol

[Ninja Survivor]

I don't get why people even plant grass and saplings when tumbleweeds exist.

[MagicalSkies]

8 minutes ago, Ninja Survivor said:

I don't get why people even plant grass and saplings when tumbleweeds exist.

Exactly!

[Yuuko]

31 minutes ago, Ninja Survivor said:

I don't get why people even plant grass and saplings when tumbleweeds exist.

An odd comment - the concept behind replanting grass and saplings is to relocate resources closer to a home base so that you travel less as you gather and build.  Tumbleweeds are a resource which cannot be relocated at all.

While tumbleweeds are a great souce of grass / twigs they don't have the yield of 20-50 grass / twig farm, especially if you're going to read applied horticulture to kick things off.  It gets better if you wall off the spawner, but you're still going to have to go to the desert to harvest them.

[Pruinae]

1 hour ago, blizstorm said:

To punish group of players who cant come up with rules and execute it? If everyone can be trained to run from base whenever hounds, deerclop or bearger is spawning, why not train everyone to dig up sapling and grass tuft every start of winter and mid summer? 

The problem never was not knowing how to deal with it, the problem is that the ways of dealing with it are boring.

1 hour ago, blizstorm said:

 Learn to mitigate your risk also. rather than plant in clumps of 100s, how about doing in 20s? In dont starve alone, clumping all the buildings is the way to get never ending fire

The ways of dealing with disease involve never getting a diseased plant in the first place, so I don't get what point you're trying to make here.

1 hour ago, blizstorm said:

or the alternatives that you refuse to take. twiggy tree is actually more efficient than plucking sapling manually, since the picking animation is shorter than the work animation. if you cant gather stacks of twigs at once, then you better work on storage to buffer the lean time. grass gekko farm for grass. There are also other strategies to counter disease. Perhaps you need to play more.

If you argue that twiggy trees and grass geckos are better ways of collecting said resources, then why have disease make the worse ones even worse?
Mass collecting grass and twigs isn't a issue in a world where applied horticulture + lureplants exists, it's just that disease turns an otherwise enjoyable process into an unenjoyable one.

[Mike23Ua]

I think this is less of a problem with the game, and more of a problem with your personal play style- for example: for me I Just Wing It- or well more commonly known as “Nomad” everything, which means I don’t relocate anything and instead pluck it right from its source area, the few things I DO relocate are things like Birchnut & Twiggy Trees, since chopping those down give me pinecones I can plant elsewhere.

In its current form, Disease is pretty boring- but imagine if it spreaded to wildlife in the game.. like bats or rabbits and then slowly but surely started cutting off those things as a resource option.

I want a Hardcore mode that heavily encourages The player to adapt to New situations they were not prepared to encounter- like floods that wash your entire base away, or If Elevated plots of land end up in the game someday.. I want earthquakes that Will terraform the land making even the routes I take in my world change up and need adapting to based upon the situation. 
 

This isn’t The Base Building DST we currently know, this Isn’t the Uncompromising Mod that Canis and Company is making.. this is a brand new completely separate mode created by Klei that takes heavily established features you know about this game and spins that all upside down on top of its head..
 

For example- Imagine not being able to precraft structures and hold those in your inventory until you actually need to place them... because in the current version of DST- You can quite literally walk around with an ENTIRE pre-crafted base right in your pocket.. Imagine if everything you were carrying (including precrafted not yet placed stuff) had a Weight limitation that restricted your movement.. THIS Is Uncompromising Mode- THIS is where the Disease Mechanic belongs... (but hopefully expanded upon to also include endangering  the games mobs such as TRASH in the Ocean that if not cleaned up.. will pollute the water and kill out all nearby fish..) 

The TL:DR- currently the feature is there to add additional challenge to those seeking that challenge, it’s intention is to discourage the player from relocating an entire servers worth of Berry bushes to their base and living off that, and the answer as to why there’s no cure in the game is pretty obvious isn’t it? Because if there WAS a cure it would be just another one of those temporary hassles, with a craftable item that solves it. Identical to how Ice Flingo Matic makes summer wildfires and red hound attacks a complete joke.  

 

[thegreatJash]

I have found use in it. In my day 500+ Endless server I have a bunch of diseased grass. Quick and easy rot farm. Not the best source of rot, but I guess it's kind of useful. Still needs some sort of rework and/or cure.

[Pruinae]

On 5/26/2020 at 2:19 PM, Mike23Ua said:

-snip-

I don't think disease is a good challenge as it is, the ways of combating it are easy and really boring. I view it as an annoyance at most. You can live with monster meat and ice just as well as you would with 100 berry bushes, mid-late game you can even live only eating honey.

If the purpose is to avoid the relocation of resources it should be reworked in a way to, at the very least, not affect other aspects of the games, such as base decoration.