Worst Character Post Refresh (utility)

[h1mk]

Assuming you cannot switch characters, and not taking into consideration unlisted characters (eg. Woodie sucks because Maxwell's better)

[ArubaroBeefalo]

i think winona is so boring and wortox and wendy should be nerfed

[OMGkawaiiAngel]

Woodie isn't that great.. Maxy is way better, and @ArubaroBeefalo Winona has fun machines, but still you get bored after you kill the bee queen for the 30th time with the catapults, am I right?

[ShadowDuelist]

A few balance opinions of the reworked or new characters:

- Warly should get +50% extra time whenever he uses special effects from food items. So there is a point, and benefit in staying as Warly. It could also affect jellybeans duration on him.
- Winona needs an interesting side perk for herself only.
- Wortox: The most common happening I find in public servers are either Wortoxes wasting souls on fully healed people, or wortoxes that never bother to heal anyone but themselves. Wortox should see what players are hurt without the use of mods, and they should also get some benefit from healing others. Maybe souls should heal less when used on himself (10 hp) but they heal 15hp if you heal another player, and 20 if you heal more than one player.
- Wurt needs quality of life fixes, like merms teleporting back to their home when they have not been friends with anyone for a day (They get stuck in corners of the world often and never return). They also need names, and give warning signs when they are hungry, like bunnymen and pigs do. This makes managing them easier.
- Willow needs a way to actively make BERNIE! small again, even if she's still insane, to pick it up when needed.
- Wormwood: Every time Wormwood crafts compost wrap he should get 2 of them instead of just one. It's too grindy for a not-so-useful item. Currently its better to use salves or poultices for healing, and to fertilize, the materials it takes to make a compost wrap are better used one by one (also leaving you Nitre for other things). And I still think his armor would be used by much more people if it had more durability, at least log suit durability.

[Harrowick]

I think Winona has the worst utility, with her refresh, she got an entire crafting tab with two variants of an all purpose generator that only power two buildings with extremely niche usage. The catapults are used to cheese bosses, and will miss basically every shot on oncoming attackers if used otherwise, making them less of a base defense system and more of an extra damage output when you've got something in one place.

The spotlight can sorta kinda come in handy for making night time chores around the base easier, but that depends if the spotlight is even on the right person to begin with. I found the spotlight pretty nice for night-time farming for crops and trees alike. (Quick little idea: What if Winona was able to use the spotlight as a beacon at night by interacting with the spotlight, making it turn upwards and give off a map icon similar to a flare? This would save players from having to make a flare everytime someone joins and asks for base. )

 

In summary, I find it strange that Winona doesn't have more buildings to justify having two universal generators that power mediocre buildings. I just feel like she could serve more of a year-long purpose, and become a viable pick for newcomers by giving her some buildings to deal with some of the constant's harsh-ities to help both themselves and others. (Some example of such a building could be a giant metal group umbrella almost in the style of Wagstaff's telebrella that can house several people to shelter from the rain/intense heat of summer, but would close if not fueled with nitre, giving no protection whatsoever unless the generator is powered.)

[ShadowDuelist]

1 hour ago, Charlie Dark said:

Woodie isn't that great.. Maxy is way better

Woodie is better than all characters at everything, except the specialized ones. He is perfect as he is, since his point is to fill whatever role is needed, cheaply, saving weapons, armor and tools for everyone else, while getting the job done efficiently. Plus he has a few things nobody else can do better than him.
 

Spoiler

 

• Human Woodie is a great treeguard summoner. If Wormwood is present, he is better at making living logs. If Maxwell is present, he chops so fast he will make a lot of treeguards anyway. But only Woodie as Weremoose can fight to 6+ treeguards, 2 terrorbeaks, hounds, and 3 spider queens. All at the same time!
• Weremoose is a great tank. Wigfrid and Wortox are better tanks, still, even if they are present he can still play the role as an offtank, saving weapons and armor for the other players, keeping the aggro of enemies on him while the others deal the damage. In the lategame when jellybeans become common, you can still use it to deal with sfrog rains, some boss fights, hound waves, etc, cheaply. Abigail is a better farmer of lesser mobs, but only the Weremoose can deal with 4+ queens at the same time. I assist Abigail all the time in tough queen fights.
• The Weregoose is a great exploration and mobility perk. Wortox is better overall exploring, but Woodie is still the best at getting stonefruits in the first 4-5 days. Late game Charged WX is better at mobility, but Woodie by that point just did a ton of things on his own, cheaply. Sometimes in late game, when you have to go from point A to point B fast (EG, go to the pseudoscience station to make a few crafts and go back) I still use the goose, as it can quickly cover ground in complete darkness, while wearing a backpack and costing  only some healing food.
• The Werebeaver is a great utility multitool to mine, chop or open stonefruits. Yes, Maxwell is better, but if no Maxwell is present, he can fill that role almost as good, and super cheaply. It can be upgraded with the honey spice Warly makes, make it even more efficient for the late game. Since it doesn't summon treeguards, its worth using when you just need wood, since it will not waste time dealing with guardians like Maxwell would.

 

 

[h1mk]

2 hours ago, Charlie Dark said:

Woodie isn't that great.. Maxy is way better, and Winona has fun machines, but still you get bored after you kill the bee queen for the 30th time with the catapults..

4 hours ago, Blunderbuss said:

Assuming you cannot switch characters, and not taking into consideration unlisted characters (eg. Woodie sucks because Maxwell's better)

I SAID NOT TO DO THAT!!!

[GenomeSquirrel]

I picked Wurt, most of what merms do isn't useful until done on a ridiculous scale.

Warly was a runner up, he's too dependent on particular crops for most recipes. With winter, summer, rng, and bird rng; seed farms are one of the worst farms in the game (without wormwood), but at least his spring food and electric food are useful and reliable.

[Catteflyterpill]

My main gripe with winona is that her items don't really seem to fit the DST aesthetic. They just seem out of place in the world, but I don't think any of the refreshes are necessarily 'bad.' Just some are worse than others.

[Mike23Ua]

The worst for me is woodie.. why because people just use him to rush lunar isles now.. and they say oh why do we even need Walani or Woodlegs (Aka ACTUAL WATER SPECIALISTS) when Woodie now does their job better than they ever could?

Its BS... and I kinda wish they would add an At Sea Enemy type that targets Woodie in his what should be vulnerable goose form, Something like Gnarwhail might see him as a Tasty snack for example.

If this guys Goose form ends up being why I NEVER get Walani or Woodlegs I will hate him for the rest of eternity. 

*angry face Emoji Here*

Outside of him I wish Winona had a slight “Winona only” type perk- Maybe make her Duct Tape exclusive to her only she can Craft or USE it and let it fix literally EVERYTHING, the stuff it currently fixes, + Weapons, Armor, And Burned Structures.

”Plumbers Tape fixes Everything.”

I think that would be a good Winona perk.

[Owlrust]

Winona: "Hey guys, I'm ready to work and ready to he-" 

*Gets shoved back into the portal*

[Dr. Safety]

I think it kind of skews the data to assume you can't switch characters because a big problem is the fact than you can. Winona is easily the biggest victim of this, because practically all of her upsides remain whether or not you are playing as her (I haven't been hit by Charlie in awhile so I often forget about that upside). Once you build all of Winona's structures that you need, what is the point of playing as her? You switch to someone else and all of her buildings stay. Her buildings are pretty useful for certain farms and a good way to spend the surplus of nitre, so I can argue that she is worth playing. The issue is that you can quickly "use up" her usefulness and then switch to someone who doesn't lose hunger every time you craft a torch.

However for the sake of this poll I chose Warly because his spices are useful but not useful enough to warrant the downsides (especially salt spice... don't even get me started on that)

4 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Woodie is better than all characters at everything, except the specialized ones. He is perfect as he is, since his point is to fill whatever role is needed, cheaply, saving weapons, armor and tools for everyone else, while getting the job done efficiently. Plus he has a few things nobody else can do better than him.

Exactly, I see Woodie as a perfect character for a small group. Say theoretically you are playing with two other people, but neither want to go Maxwell, Webber, Wendy, Wigfrid, or Wortox. These are all characters that specialize in something important (gathering, spider loot collecting, general CC, tanking, and mapping respectively). Woodie is a great pick because while (as of right now) he can't do any of these things better than the characters I mentioned, he still can do all of them better than a Wilson.

[pedregales]

On Wurt, Wormwood, and Wortox I cannot really give any insight as I can't play them. Do note that I did vote for Wurt, but that was a mistake on my part, as I thought I clicked on Winona... Now, for the ones I did vote (and wanted to vote):

• Winona is currently the worst character. She has 2 generators (when 1 could have been more than enough) and they only work for 2 structures, one of which (spotlight) is barely useful. Not to mention that the generator fuel is "expensive" early game (yes, by day 50-60 you start to get gems like crazy, and you probably have broken enough rocks to get a lot of nitre anyway). In general, I believe Winona needs another re-work that focuses more on her "handywoman" archetype (for example: hammering things with Winona gives you more materials than to average characters (like 75% instead of 50%), her trusty tape fixes weapons and armor, she builds and crafts and does most other stuff faster, she can disassemble weapons and other things without the deconstruction staff for half the resources, etc.).
• Warly is not quite awful. He serves an interesting niche. He is just a hassle to play with all of his mechanics plus having to memorize new crock pot recipes. We really need a recipe book of sorts like in The Gorge. Don't know why we do not have one yet.
• And Wendy, well, with Wendy I am more salty that she barely changed at all so she still serves the exact same niche as before (mass murde... I mean, animal based food collector!). Which is fine. The problem is that it is still Wendy's "only" niche outside of bee queen killer (which was also one of her niches before re-work anyway). But hey, much better than Winona and her glorified sewing kit and unnecessary 2 forms to provide energy to only 2 structures.

Then we have Woodie and Willow that on the other hand are more than fine now. If anything, Willow is quite possibly on the same level as Wolfgang, and Woodie is a nice "jack of all trades master of none" type of character (ShadowDuelist gives an amazing explanation on Woodie's very versatile role in this thread).

[h1mk]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

The worst for me is woodie.. why because people just use him to rush lunar isles now.. and they say oh why do we even need Walani or Woodlegs (Aka ACTUAL WATER SPECIALISTS) when Woodie now does their job better than they ever could?

question was who is the WORST character (in terms of utility, not design or fun gameplay, personal opinions, refreshed)

22 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

I think it kind of skews the data to assume you can't switch characters because a big problem is the fact than you can

I was trying to keep the reasoning based on each character individually

[shadowDigga]

I think Warly was nerfed beyond any understanding. He is top pick for me in single-player, proving great nomad experience since you've got both portable crock pot + ice box as well as backpack from beginning of the game. In Hamlet he's actually even more appealing than in Shipwrecked for number of reasons.

In DST, his nomad nature as his original perk has been destroyed. He benefits from crock pot foods he makes the least (compared to other characters) and is not able to consume non-crock pot even if he's about to starve. He has little options to restore sanity with food. With those taken into account, you'd better off cooking your stuff on campfire as other character if you intend to live nomadic style than play Warly and cope with his diet and increased hunger drain. Chef Pouch (his special backpack) was nerfed to the point that even basic backpack is better - all for the sake of preventing Insulated Pack from being overshadowed by it. While original recipes seemed to be at least related to something you'd stumble upon as you explore the world (while still being inferior to non-exclusive foods), his new recipes in DST require using farm crops when farming is probably something you'd expect the least from nomad. (Glow Berry Mousse is the only exception being made from stuff that you can gather as you go instead of farming while also having great stats - had other exclusive dishes been like it, living as Warly would've been more bearable). The spices are just terrible and once again mostly rely on farm crops even heavier than exclusive recipes do. And spice-oriented cookware is portable when it doesn't even need to be portable. Ingredients for exclusive dishes with special effects like increased/decreased perceived temperature or wetness immunity take longer to be collected and cooked than duration of their effects. I can't seriously imagine anyone making them more than once without realizing that it's a huge waste of time.

I don't even get why Warly had to be changed at all other than labeling his addition to DST as refresh. None of his perks made him overpowered in single-player. Just porting him as is with few skins to make money for the effort it took would've been fine. From one of the most picked in DS he got all the way down to the least picked characters in DST, perhaps second only to Wes.

TL;DR: Warly was nerfed from the character who can survive easier on his own than other survivors to the character that is given pathetic support role of cooking food for Wolfgangs and Werebeavers and can barely manage his own survival.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

i think abigail needs a nerf in her damage, you and wortox not more than 150 hp instead of 200hp or a nerf in his healings (or even both, its just stupid how much error range you have with him

[Bird Up]

Idk why people are voting Wurt. Wurt is very strong imo. She's just not played much.

I voted Winona but also thought about Wormwood. Bramble traps and bramble armor are gimmicks and alternatives to options that already exist and are generally better.

[Yuuko]

idk - I can't really vote on this.  I don't think any of these characters are bad right now.  If I had to vote for someone it would be Wurt ~ONLY~ because she can't build a merm king or merm huts on boats...

[Mike23Ua]

4 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

idk - I can't really vote on this.  I don't think any of these characters are bad right now.  If I had to vote for someone it would be Wurt ~ONLY~ because she can't build a merm king or merm huts on boats...

You should vote for WINONA but not because I’m telling you to- but more because she can use trusty tape to fix a portal that exploded.. but she can’t use her trusty tape to fix a simple alchemy engine someone burned down.

Something don’t sit right there at all.. If you rewatch Winona’s short she uses all sorts of workers tools- yet in the game she gets Catapults instead of fixing skills. Bahhh poor Winona.  

[bagherthegamer]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

You should vote for WINONA but not because I’m telling you to- but more because she can use trusty tape to fix a portal that exploded.. but she can’t use her trusty tape to fix a simple alchemy engine someone burned down.

I Really need to agree there. Her ability as a Mechanic isnt realy there in gameplay and despite her farming potential we need more mechanics and Options regarding her abilities. 

[Catteflyterpill]

6 hours ago, shadowDigga said:

I think Warly was nerfed beyond any understanding. He is top pick for me in single-player, proving great nomad experience since you've got both portable crock pot + ice box as well as backpack from beginning of the game. In Hamlet he's actually even more appealing than in Shipwrecked for number of reasons.

In DST, his nomad nature as his original perk has been destroyed. He benefits from crock pot foods he makes the least (compared to other characters) and is not able to consume non-crock pot even if he's about to starve. He has little options to restore sanity with food. With those taken into account, you'd better off cooking your stuff on campfire as other character if you intend to live nomadic style than play Warly and cope with his diet and increased hunger drain. Chef Pouch (his special backpack) was nerfed to the point that even basic backpack is better - all for the sake of preventing Insulated Pack from being overshadowed by it. While original recipes seemed to be at least related to something you'd stumble upon as you explore the world (while still being inferior to non-exclusive foods), his new recipes in DST require using farm crops when farming is probably something you'd expect the least from nomad. (Glow Berry Mousse is the only exception being made from stuff that you can gather as you go instead of farming while also having great stats - had other exclusive dishes been like it, living as Warly would've been more bearable). The spices are just terrible and once again mostly rely on farm crops even heavier than exclusive recipes do. And spice-oriented cookware is portable when it doesn't even need to be portable. Ingredients for exclusive dishes with special effects like increased/decreased perceived temperature or wetness immunity take longer to be collected and cooked than duration of their effects. I can't seriously imagine anyone making them more than once without realizing that it's a huge waste of time.

I don't even get why Warly had to be changed at all other than labeling his addition to DST as refresh. None of his perks made him overpowered in single-player. Just porting him as is with few skins to make money for the effort it took would've been fine. From one of the most picked in DS he got all the way down to the least picked characters in DST, perhaps second only to Wes.

TL;DR: Warly was nerfed from the character who can survive easier on his own than other survivors to the character that is given pathetic support role of cooking food for Wolfgangs and Werebeavers and can barely manage his own survival.

I strongly disagree. I think Warly is a lot of fun to play, and I only ever play by myself. Only being able to eat crock pot foods forces me to plan in advance for exploration and be more creative with my meals. I think that his perks are also a huge benefit, with some really strong spices and meals. I mean each player to their own playstyle, but I personally love playing Warly.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

17 hours ago, Charlie Dark said:

Woodie isn't that great.. Maxy is way better, and @ArubaroBeefalo Winona has fun machines, but still you get bored after you kill the bee queen for the 30th time with the catapults, am I right?

is the only fun thing winona has and im not that kind of player who likes to see afk how the boss dies (maybe for that i dont open topics asking for buffs) so i dont play winona never

i said that is boring because you are most of the time a wilson who cheese bosses, repair clothes and craft quickly... if atleast her light spot were better...

 

pd: i dont see how a 75hp character who needs to summon his shadows when he wants to chop or mine (because the rest of the time is desroying decorations) is better that woodie who can do everything. The only god tier thing that has maxwell is the sanity aura

[OMGkawaiiAngel]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

is the only fun thing winona has and im not that kind of player who likes to see afk how the boss dies (maybe for that i dont open topics asking for buffs) so i dont play winona never

i said that is boring because you are most of the time a wilson who cheese bosses, repair clothes and craft quickly... if atleast her light spot were better...

yup... that's right.

[GetNerfedOn]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

pd: i dont see how a 75hp character who needs to summon his shadows when he wants to chop or mine (because the rest of the time is desroying decorations) is better that woodie who can do everything. The only god tier thing that has maxwell is the sanity aura

a 75hp character who needs to summon his shadows when he wants to chop or mine is far more efficient than Woodie in gathering because:

 - multiple shadow workers boosts Maxwell's gathering efficiency threefold for an indefinite amount of time (if you don't get your shadows killed, and that problem is solved by running away and finding a better place to gather stuff) while Woodie can mine/chop/dig at arguably equally fast rates for a more limited amount of time which depends on how much totems he's got.

 - multiple shadow workers only need basic tools and NM fuel. The former are easy to make, while the latter are farmable, albeit trickier considering Maxwell's sanity gain. The cost really doesn't matter because once you're done making miners/choppers, they last literally forever if you keep them alive. Woodie's idols require Monster meat, logs, the initial sanity and health costs upon consuming the idols, and the rest of your hunger (despite however large the initial amount of hunger you may have had before) once your transformation is over.

 - multiple shadow workers require less effort to manage, while Werebeaver still requires active input to farm

 - Maxwell can stay at infinite zero sanity when he wants to farm NM fuel while Woodie cannot

While Woodie is generally good at mining, chopping and digging, also good at fighting and excellent for exploring due to his Weregoose form Maxwell is more efficient at gathering logs and rocks and farming NM fuel despite his lack of exploration/combative perks.

[Seot]

I dont really see why everyone thinks winona is so bad. Yea she is boring but she can farm basically anything in the game and has no downsides. I feel like wurt is much worse then winona