csc_unit

Abigail dmg be based on Day/night cycle or Wendy's HP ?

Poll on Abigail damage mechanic  

85 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you prefer Abigail dmg be based on Day/night cycle or Wendy's HP ?

    • Day/night cycle
      52
    • Wendy's HP
      13
    • Both! Or none, not sure.
      20


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csc_unit    1,228

Well, this poll should have been made a week ago. I have mixed feelings about the recent update and, as I see, a bunch of users have too. Here we will know quantitatively what's the opinion of the fanbase. Dmg numbers can be tweaked either way, but which mechanic should the devs focus on?  

Discussion about it ensue :)

Edited by csc_unit
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x0-VERSUS-1y    4,248

Imo the HP-based dmg scaling of Abi would only marginally and situationally be of help to casual players' bulk (at least those playing Wendy that is) on their proverbial "last leg" (plus vast majority of times not even something that would get them out of said pickle) and be a niche play-style for some advanced players, only really usable against large numbers of small enemies, e.i. Spiders and Splumonkeys. Also it promotes a rather "passive engaging" from Wendy's side because at a very low HP level you most likely would be 1-shot away from death, thus caution is much advised.

On the other hand the old day-dusk-night Abi's dmg scaling promotes a more active role from Wendy, helping her sister and benefiting from both a full-HP pool and additional damage via Abi's now-new passive perk. Not to mention permanent Cave runs now have full boon and are even encouraged. Also, lore-wise, cooperation between sisters is more intuitive and in-theme as opposed to primarily let Abi fight, plus folklore ghosts are tied to night, darkness, obscure creepy places so would be in-tune to have a ghost be more powerful at those hours of the day.

The "high risks - high rewards / glass-cannon" conceptual aspect for Wendy's play-style via a HP-based dmg scaling Abi is rather overrated, as you only save a bit of time potentially sacrificing oneself if a small mistake is made.

Edited by x0-VERSUS-1y
*additions and corrections*
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Nero-DMC    23

i kinda like the compromise from the current state, sure daytime abi is not that great, but you have the tonic, and the damage buff to wendy is really what sells me the point of abi being relatively weaker most time, now abi is just a bonus damage, for dealing with stuff with lots of hp or a lot of enemies i will use the tonic, else just the damage buff she gives to wendy is good nuf to make me want to keep her around and helping. maybe they should just get rid of the  varying damage for abi all together, i think that rn the thing that kinda sucks more is you have to decide between doing damage with abi and healing abi, and that is kinda annoying since you have to get the mourning glory to make her deal damage for a couple of seconds and instantly loosing it if you need to heal her (maybe not stacking tonics but pause tonics?) like i am using damage tonic -> use heal, damage tonic gets paused -> heal tonic ends, now i am back to having damage tonic?

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Owlrus98    1,013

I feel like if we had the day and dusk damage stay the same no matter what (still fluctuating based on day/dusk), we could have the night damage adjust to Wendy's health at a linear rate at around say...1 point of damage for every 3 health lost? Would prove to be a value of both skill, and planning imo.

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Mike23Ua    2,958

The lower health higher damage belongs on another character, most likely it’s going to be a brand new one they introduce later... probably.

it DOES NOT Belong on Wendy because it encourages players to sit off to the side while Abigail did all the work, This NEW Couple Seconds extra Damage boost after Abigail attacks something actually encourages you to fight Alongside Abigail. Which is just better :) 

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Shosuko    916

I'm glad they switched it back for a number of reasons - the one I'll give here is that Abi didn't really get to shine even if you were at 1 hp.  It wasn't like she was suddnely doing fully-fed Wolfgang damage numbers.  She wasn't a boss killer, and its not like you need that much damage AOE for any cluster of mobs.  If you weren't at 1-10 hp you weren't actually getting that much damage from the perk anyway.  It doesn't matter much to go from 20 to 30 damage which is all you got from 45% health, most of her gains were sub 30hp.

Edited by Shosuko
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MrLJensen    31

If I have to choose one or the other, I prefer day/night cycle. However, given the option, I would prefer having both. I think both mechanics introduce fun, interactive dynamics. The problem with the earlier health-based DMG was, as many have stated, the improper relation between risk and reward. 

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ArubaroBeefalo    683

I liked a lot the hp based damage but atleast klei said that will use it in another character. I dont think they will release another summomer (maybe for maxwell and his shadow duelyst) because adding this to the base damge of a character instead of his pet could be op like wolfgang

 

Well, im happy with the rework. Just for the quality of life she become so much stronger

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Ornge    324

The health tie to wendy was the best thing they could have added to the rework. Rather than just sitting and letting abigail do all the work, you could actually work together as a team and feel like you were actually conneted to Abigail. What  I liked most about it was how they didnt remove abbys power against grouped mobs, it was still possible to do all that. The only thing that changed was that wendys skill ceiling was much higher now and imo became much more fun to play.

The new(technically old) system throws all that out the window and says "You want to do damage? than just wait till nighttime or drink an elixir" because thats fun and exciting

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Bird Up    1,191

Day/dusk/night is definitely my favorite. Abby always did max damage while in caves and that was always a huge plus. Now she has it back again along with all the other buffs. Makes her very powerful in the ruins, and the cave in general. Sitting at 1 hp for a small boost in Abby damage is very boring to me.

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I think that the hp based damage sounded pretty cool on paper, but in practice it wasn't really worthwhile or practical. The only thing I've seen done with it recently was a kill on Bee Queen (that I have a hunch might be a bit easier now since Wendy will be doing more damage to Bee Queen herself). There are just too many cases where you can easily take a little damage and just completely end your run with that system. Freezing, Overheating, a nightmare you cannot see because of tile color, and lag. Why risk it with Wendy to get marginally better AOE damage when you can just play Wigfrid or Wolfgang and get considerably more 1v1 damage and use mob mechanics to either outrun or finish off hoard mobs one by one. The only hoard mob that it would seem could even give anyone any real problems would be shadow spleumonkeys which can be kited or avoided as apposed to fighting directly. Even Maxwell, the character made to have low max hp, has a higher survivability than a Wendy trying to use the damage scaling effectively.

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Ornge    324
3 hours ago, QuartzBeam said:

It literally did the opposite of that. Most of the damage was squeezed into Wendy's last 20 or so HP, which actively encouraged you to stay away from the fight in order to get Abigail to do almost full damage.

Fair point, but I still think its a better system that either waiting for night or spam elixirs to do full damage

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pedregales    362

I prefer it health based since you have more control over it instead of having to wait for the "perfect moment", which barely lasts enough for important fights anyway. I also think there is something that needs some tweaking: either Wendy's low damage should be increased, or ranged weapons have to be made more easily available even if at the cost of damage (to give a chance for a more "safe" playstyle).

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Mike23Ua    2,958

Guys the Nightshade Nostrum Elixir allows you to do full Night time Abby Damage during the Day.. you don’t HAVE to Rely in time of day anymore.

though if it’s THAT much of an Issue for you, set your server so the day is shorter and you get more use out of Abigail.

Edited by Mike23Ua

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Shosuko    916

There is a point to be made that with low-health-Wendy you would get both the damage AND the defense / speed / heal boost of the elixer.  Now you have to either fight at night, or pick which you want.  That said, I think adding Wendy's damage to the mix far surpasses the damage Abi gained from Wendy being 1-10 health.

Is there anything low-health-Wendy could do that the Wendy+Abi can't?  So far I haven't found any...  I think the idea that you were dealing more damage because of your low health was fun, but I don't think Abi actually did enough damage to warrent the risky mechanic.

Edited by Shosuko
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Superlucas1231    1,080

Ngl I liked both scaling. The night time dmg scale makes Abby a beast in the caves and I kinda wish Wendy got a skill that made night time sanity dmg no longer a thing so she and Abby can chill in the caves with no issue

But the dmg scale was - lore wise - cool since it actually made Abby feel like Wendy's guardian angle and not some rando ghost slave. 

I honestly want the night time dmg boost to stay, but it would be cool if Abby's aggro pull get's stronger the lower health Wendy has if Klei really wanted to make Abby feel more like a guardian to Wendy. 

 

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Fierystar88    6

I completely understand why people enjoyed the high risk/high reward mechanic of Abby. However it just didnt feel right for Wendy. I found myself being on the brink of death and just letting Abby do her thing. I made little attempts to assist her due to the high possibility of dying. It didn't feel like I was working as a team with her at all.

 

The day/night thing is kinda cool cuz it would make sense to have benefits to Wendy at night. I can now have Abby help me and I can help her with no repercussions to either of us. 

 

Klei mentioned using this low health more damage concept on another character. I like that idea a lot. It just didn't feel right for Wendy imo.

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