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That's a pretty good video covering that kind of filter.

That said, I never use those, because they have too many failure modes.

Pipe back ups are a fact of life for almost all applications. About the only common exception is dumping stuff out of a high-pressure vent, where the target is never going to hit 20kg / tile. Typically, dumping oxygen out of a line and into the general colony atmosphere.

Full packets of gas or liquid are usually the rule, not the exception.

A pipe of nothing but full packets for 1000 seconds sounds like a lot, except that 1000 seconds is only 1.6 cycles, and it's not uncommon to have pipes that almost always have one kind of gas or fluid, and the filter's there to catch errors or exceptions. Oxygen ventilation pipes and natural gas supply lines, for example. Though I guess those really fall into the "gas back up causes failure" case anyway.

Overall, I'm just happier building stuff where it doesn't sometimes fail to do the expected.

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@Gus Smedstad If you read the original thread posted by @mathmanican above you can see my advice in that thread should you have a situation where you are worried that you have nothing but full packets for longer than the double bridge version can handle then you can insert a valve to limit flow to 999.9g/s (assuming a 0.1g/s valve loop). That is pretty darn close to full packets and you won't need the second bridge or worry about orientation of the bridge/valve loop.

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I often use them on infinite storage inputs, both gas and liquid versions, since just 0.1g of the wrong gas or liquid will break the infinite storage and require you to empty it completely which could take 100s of cycles. That has the added benefit that the output can never block so there's no possibility of failure. Ever.

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56 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

That has the added benefit that the output can never block so there's no possibility of failure. Ever.

That's sort of like saying "if I cheat, the pipe's never going to back up."

I know there are two schools of thought here about exploits. One group feels that anything's fine, provided that you can do it in the game. Which has the advantage that you get to get creative while exploring oddball ways to cheat the game, like the gas-transmutation system that was a long topic a few months back.

The other group feels that cheats remove part of the challenge of the game, and thus reduce the experience. In that version, pipes backing up are something you always need to worry about, and storage is both finite and has an expense. Either in simple space, like carving out an area to act as a storage tank, or the metal cost of reservoirs.

I'm not trying to tell people how they should play the game, since that's really none of my business. I'm just saying that if you belong to the second camp, and you're eyeballing a particular machine design, and the machine design has weaknesses, you're looking for non-exploit answers to those weaknesses.

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24 minutes ago, Gus Smedstad said:

The other group feels that cheats remove part of the challenge of the game, and thus reduce the experience. In that version, pipes backing up are something you always need to worry about, and storage is both finite and has an expense. Either in simple space, like carving out an area to act as a storage tank, or the metal cost of reservoirs.

Unless you consider using bridge priorities and automation as exploits, I'm not sure why you'd ever have to deal with anything backing up.

I've actually recently started using mech filters exclusively, specifically because they can be setup to never fail.  

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Just now, Nitroturtle said:

I've actually recently started using mech filters exclusively, specifically because they can be setup to never fail.  

Well, there is power failure but that would typically be what we call a Fault 40 here. Ie., the cause of the error is 40cm in front of the monitor.

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Backing up is an issue for both this filter and the filter made by element sensors+shutoff valves. The non-exploit solution to both is to make a pipe loop. This way if a filter misses something due to a pipe backing up, whatever is missed will take around round in the loop. Worst case of backing up will fill the loop entirely, but very importantly once the backing up problem has been fixed, everything will recover without player interaction.

To be more specific, the loop should be made A->input(s)->filters->B. B is input on a bridge where A is the output. The inputs are added to the loop using bridges, meaning they can add to an empty pipe or to dots already in the loop, but it can't block the loop and even a full loop will move. There is nothing fancy about the filters, but in order to make the pipes flow, no inputs can be added after the first filter. A and inputs are outputs (adds to the pipe) and filters and B are inputs (takes from the pipes). This creates a single flow direction.

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1 minute ago, Saturnus said:

Well, there is power failure but that would typically be what we call a Fault 40 here. Ie., the cause of the error is 40cm in front of the monitor.

Power failure isn't a problem when the only powered part of the flow is the pump.  But yeah, smart play can avoid power failures as well.

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6 hours ago, Tonyroid said:

I think the world has been calling it a "mechanical filter". 

For over 2 years now :D

Many vids/posts out there for this now, but I still consult the PVD thread occasionally to this day ;) 

That and the idiot sheet : 

Spoiler

5d69b741117b1_mechanicalgasfilters.thumb.png.c4e7157bf01f431f893b2ad6a393a660.png

 

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3 hours ago, Gus Smedstad said:

I'm not trying to tell people how they should play the game

Really?

3 hours ago, Gus Smedstad said:

That's sort of like saying "if I cheat,

 

3 hours ago, Gus Smedstad said:

while exploring oddball ways to cheat the game,

3 hours ago, Gus Smedstad said:

The other group feels that cheats

Seems pretty much like you are telling people that want to explore ONI physics that they are cheaters.

The game is a whole new alternate 2d reality. It has its own entire set of rules that won't match our reality. It's possible to play the game and enjoy it for hundreds of hours without ever exploring these quirks.

It's also possible to play the game as a scientist who wants to understand the laws that govern this world. ONI allows this and generally you greatly benefit from it. 

Consider this.

3 hours ago, Gus Smedstad said:

The other group feels that cheats remove part of the challenge of the game, and thus reduce the experience.

There are several ways we can see the top of Mount Everest. We can climb it or we could take a helicopter. The climbers will definitely tell the chopper folks they lost part of the experience. I'll take a chopper anyways.

There are several ways we can tell a friend who lives 60 miles away some good news. We can walk there and tell them in person. Or we could text them. 

We can be content with only the things we have been given and told explicitly that we can use. Or we can invent new stuff and enjoy the progress. Both are fine.

you-cant-stop-progress-182277.jpg

Of course some of the exploity designs are ludicrous. That's the entire reason we showcase them in stupid ways. Hopefully they'll get fixed (like gas conversion). However tons of other things are consequences of the ONI world. 

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13 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

For over 2 years now :D

Many vids/posts out there for this now, but I still consult the PVD thread occasionally to this day ;) 

That and the idiot sheet : 

  Hide contents

5d69b741117b1_mechanicalgasfilters.thumb.png.c4e7157bf01f431f893b2ad6a393a660.png

 

what does the top value and loop do? I understand the lower one.

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It never fails.  It only allows one gas through the filter.  There is no guarantee what goes out the non filtered end.  Which is why you should use more than 1 if you need to guarantee oxygen out one and hydrogen out the other.  Both together still costs 0 energy.

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1 hour ago, 0xFADE said:

It never fails.  It only allows one gas through the filter.  There is no guarantee what goes out the non filtered end.  Which is why you should use more than 1 if you need to guarantee oxygen out one and hydrogen out the other.  Both together still costs 0 energy.

ok that was a 2 loop for SPOM.... that explain it....i just build in game dunno what to set in the first value lol(it just seem to work with 1 loop)the cheat sheet is better then the PVD post to understand.

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1 hour ago, badgamer123 said:

ok that was a 2 loop for SPOM.... that explain it....i just build in game dunno what to set in the first value lol(it just seem to work with 1 loop)the cheat sheet is better then the PVD post to understand.

Please keep in mind that inputs were green and outputs were white back then. Klei later reserved that (without telling us first) so old posts can be hard to follow sometimes.

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4 hours ago, badgamer123 said:

what does the top value and loop do? I understand the lower one.

The first valve restricts flow to 999g on the incoming line to prevent 1g packets bypassing. Set to 999g if you're using a double pump line, i.e. 1kg/s or 499g if not.

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10 hours ago, Saturnus said:

Please keep in mind that inputs were green and outputs were white back then. Klei later reserved that (without telling us first) so old posts can be hard to follow sometimes.

no wonder i don't get the picture lol

10 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

The first valve restricts flow to 999g on the incoming line to prevent 1g packets bypassing. Set to 999g if you're using a double pump line, i.e. 1kg/s or 499g if not.

why i need to prevent 1g gas packet?(normally I just using element filter ),the stuff will break?

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