[Poll] On Future Reworks To Powerful Characters

[GetNerfedOn]

When the powerful characters of DST - Wolfgang, Wickerbottom and WX - 78 get their reworks, what do you think shall be done to them?

As always, do answer freely of your own will and express your thoughts in the comments!

 

[minespatch]

Powerful is subjective. I want to see what the devs make before I suggest anything.

[Man in the Mist]

I always appreciate when devs react to an especially powerful faction/character/etc by buffing the others up to that faction/character/etc's level.

[Starlogy]

27 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Powerful is subjective. I want to see what the devs make before I suggest anything.

Gonna disagree with you here. Speed boosts are powerful period.

[minespatch]

1 minute ago, Starlogy said:

Gonna disagree with you here. Speed boosts are powerful period.

Then the devs should just implement coffee.

[1bubbainpa]

4 minutes ago, Starlogy said:

Gonna disagree with you here. Speed boosts are powerful period.

They should rework WX into being a fast, but weak character.

[Starlogy]

23 minutes ago, 1bubbainpa said:

They should rework WX into being a fast, but weak character.

being fast makes you powerful, regardless of whether you're actually weak or not. you can theoretically do more in a day than you're supposed to, and this includes dealing damage, as you can get more hits in before you need to dodge the attack of a mob. speed is not a stat they should be messing with.

[Canis]

Imo, these three characters in particular should have their main weakness more expanded on, and much much much more pronounced and obstructing in gameplay, like a downside should be. Of course, Klei cant just slap downsides on them and call it a day for two months, their upsides should be made more fun to play.

 

Here are some of my ideas for downsides:

 

Wickerbottom:

Spoiler

 

* Is a fragile old lady

Wickerbottom, being the eldest of the group, would definitely not be able to keep up with young and spry children, so here's what I suggest.

- 10% Increased physical damage taken.

- 5% movement speed.

- 90% damage modifier

 

Reasoning:

Wickerbottom has powerful books that has situational, but very, very, powerful books. In addition, she's a great base-manager, able to mass-produce farm crops and materials in mere seconds. So, lets balance it out with her getting from place to place less quickly.

Before you immediately think of a negative speed perk as broken, I have an entire mod character based around being slow (slower than 95%), and he manages just fine as a character, disregarding his other perks. It just forces you to be more safe with your kiting (and ofc slows down the game a bit, but that isn't as harmful in DST as you (hopefully) have friends.)

For the damage changes, both taken and given, well, she's an old lady. Why would she possibly be able to take as many hits and/or hit as hard as the young adults of the group.

 

 

Wolfgang:

Spoiler

* Suffers from Crippling Fright and Panic Attacks

Wolfgang has practically no downside. His increased sanity drain from monsters and the dark is negligible. Lets build off of this idea.

 

-Insanity Auras are always at their maximum effect for Wolfgang. (For example, if Wolfgang is in the insanity aura of a spider, it will always drain 20 sanity per minute, regardless of distance from said spider.)

-Wolfgang remembers the insanity auras of monsters for 15 seconds. (For example, if Wolfgang gets in the insanity aura of a spider, and then kills it, Wolfgang will still suffer from 20 sanity drain / minute for the next 15 seconds.)

-The more insane Wolfgang is, the more potent insanity auras are to him. (This will generally cause a snowball effect. Also, for example, If Wolfgang is at max Sanity, insanity auras function normally. At 80% Sanity, insanity auras are multiplied by 133%. At 60%, it's multiplied by 166%. At 40%, it's 200%, where it caps.

 

I have ideas for something along the lines of a Panic Attack that Wolfgang can suffer from while having low sanity, but no one likes stun mechanics, so I got nothing. Thoughts?

 

WX:

Spoiler

I literally have an entire thread dedicated to this.

 

 

[pedregales]

In general, I think WX needs a rework and nerf. Their ability to upgrade should be more "complex" and slightly weaker, for example: they can upgrade up to 3 times, but you need 3 different objects for each upgrade: electrical doodad, gears, and frazzled wires. Wetness and rain should be a bigger problem (but there should be efficient ways to dry faster, like a towel). And they shouldn't heal as much health and sanity from foods since they can eat them for no penalty when they are spoiled, hunger is fine though.

Wickerbottom in general needs mostly more books and a bit of nerfs. She is too resourceful, and yet she is as strong as Wilson; so as Canis suggested, reducing her damage and resistance would be good so she has to play safe; her speed being reduced is unnecessary IMO. Add more offensive books (and more books in general) that do not target her; or even better, make her able to summon The End is Nigh far away from her like in the Forge); 2 books they can add are the magma golem tome and the petrifying tome (though it is a bit hard to add because of how busted it is, plus it requires new animations for Giants; so I wouldn't mind if it is never added) from the Forge.

Wolfgang mostly needs reworks. His mighty form should be slower than currently (should have regular speed), while his wimpy form should be faster (Fun fact: mighty and wimpy Wolfgang have no speed multiplier at all, the only reason for their speed change is because they are scaled up in size -making mighty faster-, and scaled down in size -making wimpy slower-). Make his mighty form unaffected by heavy objects speed lose when carrying suspicious marble and similar objects, but unable to carry suspicious marble and similar objects if they are wimpy. and reduce his sanity a bit.

That is my simple idea of a rework.

[maradyne]

1 hour ago, pedregales said:

magma golem tome

I would drink unflavored milk for a treeguard-like variant of the golem summonable in the normal game through a book or staff or something.

[Remps]

i think we dont need nerfs just we need unique gameplay and special skills or craft tab

[Theukon-dos]

4 hours ago, maradyne said:

I would drink unflavored milk for a treeguard-like variant of the golem summonable in the normal game through a book or staff or something.

Skim or Whole?

 

But personally, I don't think that light reworks will cut it. they all need a proper downside, Wolfgang needs his speed boost removed, and WX needs some serious overhauls to be a proper team player rather than just a gear sponge and embodiment of a Panzer.

[Frashaw27]

2 hours ago, Remps said:

i think we dont need nerfs just we need unique gameplay and special skills or craft tab

1) We do need at least some nerfs. Making characters somewhat unbalenced is generally fine, but the big 3 are just that bit too strong. Im not saying that we make these characters boderline useless, but it shouldn't be that these 3 are like at the top and near unremovable choices for any players that are using the "best" loadout. It also makes so that it doesn't feel like other characters are devalued by the sheer power of these three.

2) I do agree that we need unique gameplay but I also want it to be fair and balenced. Having a character that can kill misery in a single punch but also has one hp is unique but uninteresting. Their downsides aren't actually that dangerous in the grand scheme of things, and that is why they are so powerful. They have all this power but have no reins to stop them from being to powerful. Using Wortox as a example, his power is very powerful, his potential with his souls is ridiculous, but his food penalty holds him back from being too powerful and makes him more interesting with food management.

3) All chacters have special skills, it's just that some are more exploitable then others. We also shouldn't make everybody to the same pedestal as the top 3 as that would cause the oppesite problem, making them both boring and making challenge minute at best.

4) While adding crafing tabs can work for some characters, it isn't a fit all solution. The crafing tab has to make sense and have useful things in it to make it viable in any sort of play. Sure You can give wigfrid a unique crafting tab but it also just can relegated to the fight tab. You can give Woodie his own tab but what can he craft? It shouldn't be something everybody has as it devalues the ones that already have them by the argument of everybody else has them.

I would like to see the big 3 nerfed but not to oblivion. I would like their downsides and upside tinkered so that its more fair and can make team compensation more of a discussion then immediatly answering with the big 3 and 3 other characters that can boost their potential further (Wormwood, Maxwell, and Warly for example).

[Mr.Tarunio]

100 stats wx is all i want back.

[maradyne]

7 hours ago, jantonio said:

100 stats wx is all i want back.

TBH I almost forgot that he was slightly more balanced once upon a time. I think that would be a good start; it kind of gave him more of a feeling of progression, too. Satisfaction as you watch your character evolve from trash tier to godly.
It'd also lower the likelihood that players fresh from the store page will live long enough to consume every gear found on the surface, so that's a plus.

I think high levels of power are fine; look at Warly. But the player should have to work for it.

[Theukon-dos]

42 minutes ago, maradyne said:

TBH I almost forgot that he was slightly more balanced once upon a time. I think that would be a good start; it kind of gave him more of a feeling of progression, too. Satisfaction as you watch your character evolve from trash tier to godly.
It'd also lower the likelihood that players fresh from the store page will live long enough to consume every gear found on the surface, so that's a plus.

I think high levels of power are fine; look at Warly. But the player should have to work for it.

nah, I don't think that would be a good idea. sure it would make him a bit more balanced, but all it would serve to do is make current gear sponges even more ravonous.

[themightyone]

How is Wigfrid not considered one of the top tier power players ? Anyway , I voted for light changes option.

[GetNerfedOn]

48 minutes ago, themightyone said:

How is Wigfrid not considered one of the top tier power players ? Anyway , I voted for light changes option.

Because these three characters in particular are by far the most powerful.

I could go on and mention Maxwell's omnigathering, Wig's tanking and combat ability, not to mention character synergies like Warly buffing Werebeaver with honey crystals, et cetera, but in the end the Trifecta still have the greatest power and utility of any character, able to complement any team if they play right.

 

[themightyone]

Well thats your opinion. I say Wig is more OP then Wx (if  no Wickerbottom to supercharge ). 

 

[Starlogy]

1 hour ago, themightyone said:

Well thats your opinion. I say Wig is more OP then Wx (if  no Wickerbottom to supercharge ). 

 

WX has so much more going for him than supercharges.

1. He can reach 400(!!!) health, 300 hunger, and 200 sanity.

2. He can eat food regardless of spoilage, therefore completely ignoring one of the core mechanics of the game that prevents food hoarding.

All that for a weakness to rain? Yeah, I'd most certainly argue WX is better.

[Frashaw27]

20 minutes ago, Starlogy said:

completely ignoring one of the core mechanics of the game that prevents food hoarding.

I alway did found it funny that in the same update they add spoilage, they add Wx who was immune to spoilage.

[themightyone]

1 hour ago, Starlogy said:

WX has so much more going for him than supercharges.

1. He can reach 400(!!!) health, 300 hunger, and 200 sanity.

2. He can eat food regardless of spoilage, therefore completely ignoring one of the core mechanics of the game that prevents food hoarding.

All that for a weakness to rain? Yeah, I'd most certainly argue WX is better.

I use to only play Wx , and have/had several worlds into the late hundreds and early thousands of days . I am well aware of his pros and cons . He is definitly a powerful charactor. However his max stats can take 100 to 200 days to reach depending on gear rng world gen luck ,tumbleweed luck ,and how fast you rush the ruins. For a decent minimal base I feel like you need at least 10 gears for Ice flingos and multiple iceboxes . So thats about 25 or more gears needed to find to have a fully upgraded WX and ok base. Very do-able yes , but it will take a good amount of time to get that many gears usually. 

His 400 health is nice when fully upgraded .But if you are really low on health , my god does it take a lot of resourses (and time doing the healing animation also)  to heal him fully. 9 or more pierogis , 11 or more honey poultace, etc , etc. The dude takes a lot to heal . Its sort of a double edge sword since you have to leave the battle so long to heal and requires a lot to bring back to 400 hp.

Imo where he shines the most as a team player is to be the tank during raid fights (man can he take a pounding, lol) . And as you already mentioned , to be the garbage disposal of the team and make great use of his no spoiled penalty. 

The overcharge , while nice ,is too hard to rely on consistantly without a Wickerbottom on the team. And yeah , his downside of losing health in rain is super easy to negate early game. 

He is a great charactor. But I will take Wigs Helmet making ,  increased damage, and lack of needing sanity boosters often on my team 7 out of 7 days and twice on Sunday. I really have little use for a WX on my worlds compared to what Wig can do. Just my opinion many hours of playing.

[Whisperlisc]

What about Wes?

[Theukon-dos]

On 8/28/2019 at 12:24 PM, themightyone said:

How is Wigfrid not considered one of the top tier power players ? Anyway , I voted for light changes option.

mostly it comes down to Wolfgang being a straight upgrade too her. While Wigfrid is most certainly good, Wolfgang does nearly everything better.

2x damage vs 1.25 times damage

300 max effective HP vs 250 max effective HP

1.25 speed multiplyer (can get around faster, has an easier time kiting, and is really just an OP stat to have)

isn't delegated to only meat (can eat cooked/green caps, cooked cactus, blue mushrooms, ect)

Downsides are negligable. particularly for experinced players.

 

so really, in the end all Wigfrid has are her high-durability helmets. and even then you can just switch to and from her inorder to mass-produce them.

[themightyone]

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

mostly it comes down to Wolfgang being a straight upgrade too her. While Wigfrid is most certainly good, Wolfgang does nearly everything better.

2x damage vs 1.25 times damage

300 max effective HP vs 250 max effective HP

1.25 speed multiplyer (can get around faster, has an easier time kiting, and is really just an OP stat to have)

isn't delegated to only meat (can eat cooked/green caps, cooked cactus, blue mushrooms, ect)

Downsides are negligable. particularly for experinced players.

 

so really, in the end all Wigfrid has are her high-durability helmets. and even then you can just switch to and from her inorder to mass-produce them.

I agree Wolfgangs a bit better overall, but your kinda over stating it. Wolfgang only does 2x damage with a full belly which decreases very fast . It also takes nearly 5 meatballs for example,  to get from 0 to 300. Which people dont always have just kicking around in their inventory. Wigfrid has constant damage with out the crazy food requirement. So for the world exploring non boss fights I prefer Wig . Wolfgang is great but takes some good prep to make sure you can transform to Mighty whenever you need to (bundling wrap usually) . 

Wigs meat requirement is easy to work around honestly. The only easy and good crockpot meal she really misses out on is dragonpie imo. And also taffy works now for her I think , so even better. Yes its a handicap to not eat green caps and cacti , but she gains good sanity by fighting anything so it evens out imo. 

Wolfs speed boost is nice can't deny that . Mostly helpful with full belly fights that you are kiting the target.

And I'm sorry but football helmets really suck compared to Wigfrids. Like, they are straight up crap really. So her Helmets are invaluable in my opinion. 

Anyway , Wolfgangs been my main for a few years and I think he is the most dominant player overall. But if I had only 1 teamate I would choose Wig over Wicker or Wx.