With the current release, are there still ways to destroy heat?

[avc15]

1 hour ago, bobucles said:

Pre-nerf, ice makers cooled around 80kDTUs. They now cool 4kDTUs, if anything at all.

Don't use ice makers for heat deletion. They're a poor man's aqua tuner.

They're necessary on hot game starts, to get some basic farms going. That's about all.

[Miravlix]

Anytime a resource is used up by a machine, wort, AETN, Steam Turbine, Venting Heat into Space.

 

And simply cooking the asteroid in the early game, you can easily pour tons of heat into the rocks for 1000's of cycles, before it becomes hot enough it matters.

 

Exo-Suits is a heat cheat. 1: They accept any temp oxygen. 2: It makes Dupes ignore most heat situations. (So what does it matter if the asteroid is 200C everywhere. Steel Machine can still operate)

 

You need a few cooler areas for certain items, Insulated Tiles take care of creating those few boxes.

[DarkMaster13]

A lot of these heat deletion discussions leave me scratching my head because I'm not sure why you'd need the heat deletion at all.  Sieves were what created all the heat you needed to get rid of, now you can mostly just ignore it as long as your farm and industries are kept separate.  I just let my power plant sit at 50 degrees C.  If they're overheating, I'll just run my water pipes over them bringing in the 30 degree C water from the environment.  If you want to farm bristle blossoms, you can throw ice into the water reservoir.  There are no sandstone starts missing the ice biome at the moment.

On the higher heat maps, most of the same rules apply anyway.  You just are in a race to either isolate your base or move to a location that isn't oppressively hot.  All you really need to do is create an isolated area that's of the right temperature for farming anyway.  Dupes mostly are fine even at 50-60 degree C temperatures right now.

[avc15]

wild-farming trees for fuel is deleting heat in my base. I don't quite understand the mechanism here. Is the lumber being generated cold or is the conveyor resetting temperature somehow? (this is only the larger of my two farms)

So here. Lumber sitting on the ground at 31C.

Lumber loaded into the conveyor at 20C. What??

And this isn't really designed to cool the area down, but it is anyway...

Feels like a bug. I've been watching this a few hundred cycles expecting it to go away or even out. Not happening.

[bobucles]

40 minutes ago, avc15 said:

Is the lumber being generated cold

Yes. Trees generate a huge amount of lumber, the lumber spawns cold (at the tree body temperature??) and the cold lumber has a very good specific heat.

Arbor trees are fantastic climate control, almost like real trees.

[SamLogan]

6 hours ago, QuQuasar said:

Here's why they're so powerful in picture format.

The steam in the chamber will be cooled as soon as it exceeds 125 C, but the aquatuner's overheat temperature is 175 C. The aquatuner can run forever and never overheat, allowing you to cool the liquid in the cooling loop down to near-freezing and run it through your base.

In theory, it works, in reality :

Steam don't have enough SHC to cool an gold AT, so you have to wait steel or immersing it in a crude oil pool.

My steam is at 100°C when my AT is at 200°C at the same time.

[Yunru]

8 hours ago, Oozinator said:

Everything is, even inventing a fusion reactor..
 

But fusion reactors are ridiculously simple (yes, even self-sustaining ones).

They're just equally ridiculously impractical to have be power positive (consisting of "make a star")

[avc15]

52 minutes ago, SamLogan said:

My steam is at 100°C when my AT is at 200°C at the same time.

Steam has higher SHC than oil (which I've used in some of my builds too)

What you're missing in your picture is sufficient *density*. Try letting the room pressurize to 1000kg, about what a pool of oil would be at. You should find a significant improvement in performance.

1 hour ago, bobucles said:

Yes. Trees generate a huge amount of lumber, the lumber spawns cold (at the tree body temperature??) and the cold lumber has a very good specific heat.

Done some further testing on this. Lumber spawns at the tree's body temperature. But each lumber is picked up and put into a compactor, its temp shifts. Seems like it's shifting towards 20C.

Then when a sweeper picks it up again and puts it in a loader, its temp shifts again towards 20C.

Example. I had a bunch of lumber on the ground. Most of it was at 34C or so (aridio start). Before starting, I looked and the coolest piece of lumber I could find on the ground was 28C. Now look at the contents of this new compactor I just built:

Then I put a sweeper there to transfer from that compactor into a loader. Look:

There's a bug. Quite exploitable, too.

 

[GrindThisGame]

In my powerplant I soak up some heat with CO2 and then send that CO2 into space (deleting the heat).

[Nebbie]

7 hours ago, Ellilea said:

Without getting into complex builds (don't want to know so I don't feel tempted to copy stuff) - what is it about the turbine that's so amazing at heat deletion? I haven't built one yet, but from what I've read in its description it takes 120C+ steam and turns it to 90C water. That is still a very hot water?

Materials have the same SHC whether liquid or gas, and water's is very high, beating the pants off of anything but supercoolant per mass. 35+ C of heat in water is comparable to over 140+ C of heat in oxygen per mass. The aquatuner meanwhile has no net heat output, despite consuming a lot of power, and changes the temperature of the packet going through it by a set 14 C, so if you use [polluted] water in max packets, that's a large amount of heat movement.

So, you're transferring large amounts of heat energy from liquid in a pipe to a surrounding environment, then when it hits a certain level, rapidly deleting it from existence. Use supercoolant in the aquatuner (that 14 C in a 10kg packet is more heat energy even than water) and you can turn cool steam vent output into very cold ice and get a net power gain doing so.

1 hour ago, SamLogan said:

..

Steam don't have enough SHC to cool an gold AT, so you have to wait steel or immersing it in a crude oil pool.

My steam is at 100°C when my AT is at 200°C at the same time.

Increase the amount of steam by a lot and add aluminum (or diamond if you have no aluminum) tempshift plates and you should be fine. It's really the thermal conductivity that's the issue, you want very high pressure steam and tempshift action going on to properly disperse heat.

[mathmanican]

42 minutes ago, avc15 said:

There's a bug. Quite exploitable, too.

A new "Chill Pill", but this time we can call it "Luke Warm Logging" or something more derpy.  

Have you tried this with other materials?  Maybe its a compacter/conveyor loader issues that happens with all materials now.....

[Nebbie]

11 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

A new "Chill Pill", but this time we can call it "Luke Warm Logging" or something more derpy.  

Have you tried this with other materials?  Maybe its a compacter/conveyor loader issues that happens with all materials now.....

I don't think it's a bug, lumber spawns at 19.9 C, not exactly 20 C, and so it's to be expected some of it's still the initial starting temp.

[avc15]

2 minutes ago, Nebbie said:

I don't think it's a bug, lumber spawns at 19.9 C, not exactly 20 C, and so it's to be expected some of it's still the initial starting temp.

lumber spawns at the temperature of the tree.

See my step by step illustration.

I demonstrated that each time you load it into a container, lumber resets its temp to 20C.

[mathmanican]

29 minutes ago, avc15 said:

I demonstrated that each time you load it into a container

I wonder if seeds do the same, or any item that counts as an item, rather than by weight.  Definitely a bug. Did you report it? I'll add to the report after testing it some. It reminds me of the pitcher pump cooling bug.

[Darkin Coaled]

3 hours ago, avc15 said:

Then when a sweeper picks it up again and puts it in a loader, its temp shifts again towards 20C.

And here I was, hoping to one day have enough duplicant labor and resources to prototype and execute a chill 15C arbor farm to produce sweet sweet 15C lumber by the ton, cool stuff with it and so forth... and it turns out to be another of them fridge exploits.. life is cruel...

[Ozspoz]

13 hours ago, tseitsei said:

You dont need anything close to this complicated to make it work. Of course a highly automated and optimized build will be complicated. All you actually need is a steam chamber, some heat source and loop the output water back to self cool the turbines and get back in to the steam chamber. 

Later you can start making it more efficient by actually storing the electricity provided, adding thermosensors, blocking inputs, adding better cooling for the turbine, etc etc. But the simplest working design is relatively simple.

Brothgar design while complicated can be done in a much easier way, steam turbine with aquatuner under it and a couple of temp gauges to turn it on and off. Brothgar is very smart and creating an environment to dump as much heat as possible without wasting energy, to delete heat we can just control the amount of energy that is transferred into the steam chamber

[avc15]

1 hour ago, Darkin Coaled said:

And here I was, hoping to one day have enough duplicant labor and resources to prototype and execute a chill 15C arbor farm to produce sweet sweet 15C lumber by the ton, cool stuff with it and so forth... and it turns out to be another of them fridge exploits.. life is cruel...

even after they fix the temp reset exploit, it'll still be a way to go. A 15C farm will produce lumber at 15C, so you can use a small cooling source (say an hvac full of H2) to cool your arbor farm, but get a lot more cooling out of the lumber it produces.

That probably wouldn't be considered an exploit, and it'll work even after they fix the fridge bug.

[mathmanican]

2 minutes ago, avc15 said:

That probably wouldn't be considered an exploit, and it'll work even after they fix the fridge bug.

Agreed. It will still fall in the "items spawn at low temp" category, which is essentially what @Lilalaunekuh's critter cooling exploration utilizes. Basically, to address the OP, we have the following ways to delete heat.

• Use building and plants as given to us (from wheeze, ATN, up through Steam turbine/AT).
• Heat stuff and let it get magically consumed (dupes breathe hot air, plants eat hot water, generators burn hot fuel, etc.). 
• Abuse SHC changes (Electrolyzers/Regolith/crude boilers/etc)
• Utilize spawn in temps (critters, eggs, wood, food, vents, geysers, etc.)
• Dig natural tiles and delete half mass.
• Heat substance and send to space (basically transfer heat to somewhere else, then get rid of it).
• Temperature reset (build stuff with super hot materials, or run genetic ooze through conveyors - yes exploity...)

Did I miss something?

[QuQuasar]

6 hours ago, SamLogan said:

In theory, it works, in reality :

Steam don't have enough SHC to cool an gold AT, so you have to wait steel or immersing it in a crude oil pool.

My steam is at 100°C when my AT is at 200°C at the same time.

You need more steam in the chamber. Twice as much steam pressure = twice as much thermal conductivity. I don't know how much is "enough", though: I went overboard in my survival game and have 800 Kg per tile.

Another optimization is to put the liquid vent above the aquatuner so that the cooled water lands directly on it.

[Darkin Coaled]

7 minutes ago, avc15 said:

That probably wouldn't be considered an exploit, and it'll work even after they fix the fridge bug.

I am hoping for exactly that, trees should be ridiculously powerful as cooling mass even without the bug. I won't be building this thing for several days, maybe even a week (can't play too much currently :/ ) so here's to hoping they fix it.

[DarkMaster13]

Just spitballing an idea here, but does anyone know of a very endothermic chemical reaction that the player might use for cooling?  That is something you'd throw a couple resources in and it generated cold (probably with a waste product as well) for as long as you could supply the resources?  Ideally not something that can be used as a permanent cooling system, but a bit like oxygen diffusers.  It can cool as long as the supplies of its inputs on the map last.

Sort of like how if silver was in the game, CO2 could be skimmed out of the atmosphere with that instead of water for as long as a supply of silver lasted.

[avc15]

7 minutes ago, DarkMaster13 said:

Just spitballing an idea here, but does anyone know of a very endothermic chemical reaction that the player might use for cooling?  That is something you'd throw a couple resources in and it generated cold

The only things resembling that in the game are wheezewort and AETN.

[DarkMaster13]

Just now, avc15 said:

The only things resembling that in the game are wheezewort and AETN.

I mean in real life, not currently in game.

[abud]

16 hours ago, mathmanican said:

Did I miss something?

Is new build temp limit range still exist? In the past, all new building will have temp ranged from around 15 - 75 (forgot exact number), even when built using hotter materials.

[avc15]

18 minutes ago, DarkMaster13 said:

I mean in real life, not currently in game.

There are chemical coolers, but they're less practical than evaporative A/C and compression/refrigerant A/C.

Mostly because to reverse an endothermic reaction, usually you need some very extreme set of conditions, like, a foundry. In some cases because the byproduct is unstable or toxic.

But they're out there, you can find papers about it.

 

edit: not quite a chemical reaction, still just state change, but check this one out: steam-jet cooling. Lets you take a high pressure, hot, supply of steam and produce cold water with it in large volumes. This one is used for habitability at some very large factories.