Jump to content

[Game Update] - 351082


Recommended Posts

Just now, Ecu said:

Look at that!  You aren't left with no options and you even have showcased a specific use case for wheezeworts.  Were you expecting to utilize wheezeworts as your only cooling mechanism throughout all of progression?  Seems rather unbalanced for a mechanism to do such a thing without any maintenance, no?  Seems like everything is groovy to me.

Of course not, their heat reduction was too small already to be the be-all-and-end-all solution to cooling. Which is why I didn't think they needed a nerf. They were useful for distributed spot cooling and other low-end localized cooling needs. Now they are just entirely pointless; far too much dupe labor and resource use for too little gain.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, DekothOGN said:

An efficient sized duplicant room is 4 tiles by 4 tiles. By the time you add a comfy bed a plant and artwork there is exactly 1 tile for a light. Sure space might not be relevant to you if you never progress beyond cots, but some of us have. I have enough wires running various systems in a base where dragging off yet another branch just to run a bunch of silly lights just makes an unnecessary mess. Again let me be clear, it isn't hard, it doesn't add any challenge on any level it is just a nuisance..an irritation that serves Zero purpose. 

Not every map has plentiful phosphorite and the amount of it isn't important. Dupe time is your single more important resource. The amount of resources that wheezewort currently consumer which includes dupe time, makes them trash. 

Is it just me or are you being unnecessarily hostile to anyone that disagrees with you? No matter if you use the max bedroom size space isn't in short supply. I don't think it's a requirement of any change to add difficulty to the game. Yes dupe time is valuable, but like other plants you can still automate fertilizing. Autosweeper in drecko ranch > autosweeper in wheezewort room. 

17 minutes ago, qda said:

And I may add critters hatching at a fixed temperature (and believe me, it can delete A LOT of heat), and plant irrigation.

Don't forget critters eating hot materials but producing materials at their own body temp....

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, DekothOGN said:

You might want to learn the definition of something before flinging out accusations. My statement isn't an ad hominem attack by any definition. It was simply dismissive. 

Except it is. 

Spoiler

Also, the irony of your statement is hilarious.

Quote

Ad hominem, short for argumentum ad hominem, typically refers to a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

11 minutes ago, DekothOGN said:

I really don't care about your opinions.

1 hour ago, DekothOGN said:

Translation: People found a way to make wheezewort slightly useful again by using pips to plant them, so we are stopping that. Also, making sure pip run lettuce farms aren't a thing.

33 minutes ago, DekothOGN said:

Jesus some of you are obtuse.

You're not addressing the core of the debate, rather you're skirting around the issue with attacks on us, on the ONI devs, and literally everything except for the thing in question. You're calling the mechanic stupid, annoying, and a nuisance.

Spoiler

Which are baseless and blatantly subjective attacks being thrown out there with zero evidence to back it up.

You're looking for an opinion-driven shouting match, while the rest of us are looking for a reasonable debate.

In addition to that you are calling people rebuking your claims with actual evidence obtuse, which is just pure and simple name calling.

You are being aggressive, you are being rude, so please just take a moment to chill before you decide to continue on your tirade. Heaven forbid we get another...what's his face? The one with the squirrel pfp?

Spoiler

Did I just date myself with that? :wilson_ecstatic:

Regardless, I'd rather we all calmly discuss this like the internet intellectual neckbeards that we all are. (Even the ladies too.) :wilson_flower:

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So it seems I spoke too soon on piping; I'm seeing liquids be blocked by full bridges, which is a serious problem because it breaks bathroom loops being able to get rid of extra water.

On the matter of wheezeworts and plants in general, I think fertilization requirements should be optional to go from wild to domestic growth rates, cause fertilization right now is a touch high to be outright required for any growth on certain plants like mealwood and waterweed.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Nebbie said:

On the matter of wheezeworts and plants in general, I think fertilization requirements should be optional to go from wild to domestic growth rates, cause fertilization right now is a touch high to be outright required for any growth on certain plants like mealwood and waterweed.

Me personally, I just think a name change is required for the waterweed.

Weeds are supposed to be able to grow anywhere, like Dandelions.

Spoiler

Those yellow buggers will literally grow anywhere I swear... 

angerysipp.png.bad7b6ae3b0fc354ce1e206964892fd1.png

If you're gonna make them like any other plant, just call it Wettuce.

  • Like 4
  • Haha 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, EnderCN said:

Feeding hot liquids to plants that don't mind hot liquids isn't an exploit.  Turning hot gasses into energy isn't an exploit.  These things exist in the real world.

You can't turn hot gases into energy. You have to have a temperature differential, and the maximum efficiency is governed by Carnot's theorem, which is only 1 if the cool body is at absolute zero or the hot body at infinite temperature. A value less than 1 means you lose heat to your environment, which means that you can't cool things with a heat engine, only make things heat up less quickly, because you steal some of the kinetic energy to perform mechanical work.

Also plants don't absorb heat. You feed hot water to a plant you get a hot plant.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you calling us

11 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

internet intellectual neckbeards

? Are you

11 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

looking for an opinion-driven shouting match

? Or maybe even

12 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

just pure and simple name calling

 ? Come on, let's be

14 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

reasonable

and

12 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

please just take a moment to chill

Sorry, but I HAD to do this :D

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ipsquiggle said:
  • Pips now plant seeds according to a broader set of rules that suit each seed, rather than just checking for dirt

 

View full update

Are there more infos on this?

By looking through the comments I know that pips won't plant weezeworts anymore, but what else got changed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, 7 and 4 said:

Are there more infos on this?

By looking through the comments I know that pips won't plant weezeworts anymore, but what else got changed?

So, normally, from what I can tell, because I'm a pleb who's too busy to play the game, that the Pip no longer just looks for dirt in order to plant a seed.

Other than that, I'm currently testing it. :wilson_goodjob:

Edit: Pips will plant wheezeworts, it just needs to be warm enough for them to do it.

Or maybe it doesn't. I dunno. All I do know is that they will eventually plant them.

image.thumb.png.ef0b7b9649cae86c4fc30333ef937534.png

This is my blank testing world, and it took about 1.5 cycles, but eventually they planted 2 Wheezeworts and a Wettuce.

Edited by watermelen671
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

Weeds are supposed to be able to grow anywhere, like Dandelions.

Obviously, this completely unrealistic bit is perfectly fine. The mental, aehm, "flexibility" of some people here is staggering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Giltirn said:

Of course not, their heat reduction was too small already to be the be-all-and-end-all solution to cooling. Which is why I didn't think they needed a nerf. They were useful for distributed spot cooling and other low-end localized cooling needs. Now they are just entirely pointless; far too much dupe labor and resource use for too little gain.

Except that their usage hasn't changed.  The only thing that has changed is that you now need to provide them with resource maintenance.  So to call them pointless is hyperbolic.  They most definitely still have their use, and you're now encouraged to create other systems if you want to take advantage of them.

38 minutes ago, Nebbie said:

On the matter of wheezeworts and plants in general, I think fertilization requirements should be optional to go from wild to domestic growth rates, cause fertilization right now is a touch high to be outright required for any growth on certain plants like mealwood and waterweed.

I disagree.  I think requiring people to establish other systems to provide their resources offers interesting gameplay/progression.  All this suggested change would do is allow people to create simple wild farms again and trivialize such gameplay/progression.  They explicitly changed the wild planting mechanics to restrict the ability to have wild plants grow next to each other to hinder this sort of thing.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Ecu said:

Except that their usage hasn't changed.  The only thing that has changed is that you now need to provide them with resource maintenance.  So to call them pointless is hyperbolic.  They most definitely still have their use, and you're now encouraged to create other systems if you want to take advantage of them.

Their usage hasn't changed but their value has. It is the change in value that I am reacting to. I now have to maintain 4 dreckos per wort and sacrifice additional dupe time to feed the wheezeworts. Given that dupe time is one of the most valuable resources in the game, my evaluation is that there is no circumstance now in which I would use a wheezewort. It is this basis upon which I judge them pointless.

Edited by Giltirn
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to say, not a big fan of the changes for lights. I think having a positive incentive to use lights is great. I think having lights be a requirement for room definition is not.

For one thing, as is already being reported, it's a vector for hard-to-diagnose bugs (light went out and now the room isn't a room anymore, or oh no the light was off when the duplicant started eating so they get no morale bonus but it's really not obvious that happened, etc).

For another, there's a bunch of rooms where light requirements were added that are going to be really annoying to manage unless you're willing to just run a light 24/7 and accept both the energy cost and the heat buildup (e.g. massage clinic requiring a light -- can't easily use a timed schedule it like you could for a great hall, unclear if you could use a motion sensor since, does "getting a massage" count as being in motion?)

The tl;dr: positive incentives for bothering with lighting good, complicating room definition requirements with "active" lighting bad..

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, ray-jr said:

[snip]

I'm just writing this mainly to say, welcome to the forums ma dude! :wilson_love:

3 minutes ago, ray-jr said:

For another, there's a bunch of rooms where light requirements were added that are going to be really annoying to manage unless you're willing to just run a light 24/7 and accept both the energy cost and the heat buildup (e.g. massage clinic requiring a light -- can't easily use a timed schedule it like you could for a great hall, unclear if you could use a motion sensor since, does "getting a massage" count as being in motion?)

You bring up some good points, but I think the whole reason for lights being pushed on us now is to emphasize the new Duplicant sensor. It activates when a dupe is nearby, not when they're in motion.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, ray-jr said:

I have to say, not a big fan of the changes for lights. I think having a positive incentive to use lights is great. I think having lights be a requirement for room definition is not.

For one thing, as is already being reported, it's a vector for hard-to-diagnose bugs (light went out and now the room isn't a room anymore, or oh no the light was off when the duplicant started eating so they get no morale bonus but it's really not obvious that happened, etc).

For another, there's a bunch of rooms where light requirements were added that are going to be really annoying to manage unless you're willing to just run a light 24/7 and accept both the energy cost and the heat buildup (e.g. massage clinic requiring a light -- can't easily use a timed schedule it like you could for a great hall, unclear if you could use a motion sensor since, does "getting a massage" count as being in motion?)

The tl;dr: positive incentives for bothering with lighting good, complicating room definition requirements with "active" lighting bad..

I can't exactly double check, but I think what's being addressed isn't the lights being on, it's the no-power state if the lights aren't connected to a power source.

EDIT: Would someone mind checking and tell me if my interpretation is correct?

Edited by bleeter6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Giltirn said:

Their usage hasn't changed but their value has. It is the change in value that I am reacting to. I now have to maintain 4 dreckos and sacrifice additional dupe time to feed the wheezeworts. Given that dupe time is one of the most valuable resources in the game, my evaluation is that there is no circumstance now in which I would use a wheezewort. It is this basis upon which I judge them pointless.

Sure, you have to sacrifice duplicant time to maintain wheezeworts now, if you haven't achieved automation.  However, you can also fully automate the process and then you have wheezeworts working as they did before.  You are encouraged to create other systems to maintain the wheezeworts or progress to a different mechanism to manage heat within your base.  It does not make wheezeworts useless.  It just might mean that there may be better options as you progress.

4 minutes ago, ray-jr said:

I have to say, not a big fan of the changes for lights. I think having a positive incentive to use lights is great. I think having lights be a requirement for room definition is not.

For one thing, as is already being reported, it's a vector for hard-to-diagnose bugs (light went out and now the room isn't a room anymore, or oh no the light was off when the duplicant started eating so they get no morale bonus but it's really not obvious that happened, etc).

For another, there's a bunch of rooms where light requirements were added that are going to be really annoying to manage unless you're willing to just run a light 24/7 and accept both the energy cost and the heat buildup (e.g. massage clinic requiring a light -- can't easily use a timed schedule it like you could for a great hall, unclear if you could use a motion sensor since, does "getting a massage" count as being in motion?)

The tl;dr: positive incentives for bothering with lighting good, complicating room definition requirements with "active" lighting bad..

Bugs aside, I think it makes perfect sense to have lighting requirements for the advanced rooms.  I see the issues you mention as things to discourage people from just rushing for the most advanced rooms before being ready.  If you do rush for the advanced rooms, you may have some additional issues to tackle as a result.  I really cannot see this as being a bad thing overall.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Ecu said:

Sure, you have to sacrifice duplicant time to maintain wheezeworts now, if you haven't achieved automation.  However, you can also fully automate the process and then you have wheezeworts working as they did before.  You are encouraged to create other systems to maintain the wheezeworts or progress to a different mechanism to manage heat within your base.  It does not make wheezeworts useless.  It just might mean that there may be better options as you progress.

You can automate most of this, apart from the grooming. Although I would wager the heat output of all the bits and bobs required for said automation (particularly the generators) far outweighs the heat reduction of the wort. Of course by the point where you have reached the tech level to maintain and automate all this infrastructure, you are way beyond the point at which worts are obsolete and you should be using turbines.

My definition of "useless" is something that is not worthy of the role to which it is assigned. While of course you can set up all that infrastructure to maintain a couple of worts, would you ever actually do so? It seems foolish to me. You'd be far better off just dumping all that heat into a body of water and then rushing turbines. Would any seasoned player ever use a wort apart from in the very very early game on Volcania when they might be in desperate need to cool their mealwood farm? I doubt it.

Edited by Giltirn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Giltirn said:

My definition of "useless" is something that is not worthy of the role to which it is assigned.

I suppose this is the crux of the discussion.  What role is wheezewort assigned?  Early on, it isn't unreasonable to acquire quite a bit of phosphorite via mining.  Perhap the role of wheezeworts is to act as an early-game heat management tool, for those that wish to use it.  I feel it is certainly worthy of that role.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Ecu said:

I suppose this is the crux of the discussion.  What role is wheezewort assigned?  Early on, it isn't unreasonable to acquire quite a bit of phosphorite via mining.  Perhap the role of wheezeworts is to act as an early-game heat management tool, for those that wish to use it.  I feel it is certainly worthy of that role.

How the mighty have fallen though! Wheezeworts once a valuable commodity are now just a stopgap, situational early-game solution to heat generation. You'd be 10x better off just insulating your base and moving the heat generators outside and forgetting about worts entirely.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
  • Create New...