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So, what is left for cooling?


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I see the nerved WWs, the nerved Ice Maker and the ATENs. Anything else requires you to heat something up and dispose of it somewhere. That assumes you have something you can heat up ans somewhere you can dispose of it.

Seems to me they are massively overdoing this. 

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Just like in old days. Ice biome ice and polluted ice for early game cooling.

And in those maps without ice biome, you need to find a way to survive until steam turbines.... or hope for lucky roll with polluted or salt water vents to tump some heat....

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2 minutes ago, solo6490 said:

what did they do to the ATENs?

Nothing AFAIK, there are just not many of them. Damn, looks like I have to use a Steam Turbine now. When I have successfully been ignoring them for so long.

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33 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Nothing AFAIK, there are just not many of them. Damn, looks like I have to use a Steam Turbine now. When I have successfully been ignoring them for so long.

I dont find nearly as useful. by the time I need major cooling I already have what I need to use the steam turbine. Usally its the plastic that is what always holds me up. 

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Ice maker, Steam turbine, wheezeworts, AETNs, and any way to delete mass (mostly venting to space, but there are smaller scale options) are the only ways to delete heat right now. You can also dump heat into cold biomes, they take a while to melt.

Before heavy industry buildings, the ice maker and some wheezeworts should be enough to keep a small-ish base going without too much trouble; focus on your farm and on keeping your power production buildings from overheating. Once you ramp up power production and material processing, you *will* need steam turbines, or venting to space. AETNs are hard to find, don't remove much heat, and are kind of a pain to set up for what you get... but if you find one before you get steam turbines, you might as well use it.

Might be a good idea for Klei to move the turbine earlier in the science tree.

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47 minutes ago, Priitm said:

Just like in old days. Ice biome ice and polluted ice for early game cooling.

And in those maps without ice biome, you need to find a way to survive until steam turbines.... or hope for lucky roll with polluted or salt water vents to tump some heat....

The rust biome on most maps is cold enough to effectively cool things early as well.

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4 minutes ago, pacovf said:

Might be a good idea for Klei to move the turbine earlier in the science tree.

I think they have just reduced the options wayyyy too much now. That is not good for the game.

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I think it would be nice for there to be a lower tier heat deletion device, like a sterling engine or something. Not super effective or anything, but something that takes heat energy and converts it into electricity. If it worked in a way where it worked better at higher temperatures, it would encourage people to learn how to move heat around their base using aquatuners and such.

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To be honest, my instant reaction to reading the patch changelog was "darn, now I have to look into modding in a new way to cool the base". Right now I would be concerned with not overheating the base on even the standard world. I wouldn't dare to touch upon the hot worlds.

I really wish Klei will rethink this because it's game breaking if most new players will suffer the heat death in the first say 3 games and then they drop the game. That's what can happen when everything heats up and cooling is too hard to figure out.

13 minutes ago, pacovf said:

You can also dump heat into cold biomes, they take a while to melt.

Have fun on maps without cold biomes.

1 minute ago, Yunru said:

Has anyone checked if the output polluted dirt is variable temperature or not?

It uses the same temperature code as the water, meaning polluted dirt and output water will be the same temperature.

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I think wheezeworts could use a small buff, but they seem close to balanced already. AETNs need a sizeable boost to be relevant.

Biomes could use an across-the-board drop in temperature, to slow down how quickly heat becomes an issue.

There should be more early-game heat sinks. Cold biomes are great for that, because they are cold and ice/water has a high thermal capacity, but it's only one biome. Maybe add some liquid to rust biomes, or rework some building so that it's very endothermic (e.g., make the rust deoxydiser output colder oxygen than its input). Or sinkholes / reverse-geysers, so you can get rid of mass (with conditions) even before you get to space. We can already sort of do this with oil wells, but those come pretty late.

Aside from that, maybe add another heat deletion building (still hoping for space radiators myself), and shuffle the ice maker and steam turbine accordingly.

Those are the main things they could add to diversify heat management. But I imagine they will wait and see how the balance has been shifted by this change before doing anything.

EDIT: you must be doing some crazy stuff to overheat your base in 3 days. I've always played without sieve-loop cooling, and the game is manageable, though it forces you to play slower. Otherwise, I very much agree with you that right now cooling is too dependent on finding a cold biome quickly.

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24 minutes ago, pacovf said:

Ice maker, Steam turbine, wheezeworts, AETNs, and any way to delete mass (mostly venting to space, but there are smaller scale options) are the only ways to delete heat right now. You can also dump heat into cold biomes, they take a while to melt.

You can flush heat into plants and burn it in hydrogen generators.

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2 minutes ago, pacovf said:

still hoping for space radiators myself

I thought about adding that with a mod. The problem is game thermal balance, something which until a moment ago was a "don't touch" subject. I tried to cool robo miners in space and I never released a mod for it because it turns out that it's actually really hard to do without adding a lot of exploits.

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well, at least my go to method of using petroleum as a heat sink and burning it in generators will still work.

edit: also going to have to be careful using the desalinator and pre-heat the water or we will be adding heat to the game.

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3 minutes ago, nonoxyl said:

edit: also going to have to be careful using the desalinator and pre-heat the water or we will be adding heat to the game.

I think if that is becoming necessary, I may just not bother anymore. Adding a heat-exchanger to every sieve and desalinator is kind of insane. That is way to much effort. But I don't expect things will stay as they are now.

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1 hour ago, Sasza22 said:

Don`t tell them cool slush geysers exist.

Unsurprisingly, all the players that don't mind the sieve minimum output temp change are also the ones that only play seeds with slush geysers ^

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2 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

I think if that is becoming necessary, I may just not bother anymore.

It would result in a must have mod, which sets the fixed low end to 0 K, but it would be silly to have a game, which is unplayable without using mods, particularly because it was fully playable without mods yesterday.

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1 hour ago, Yunru said:

You can still sink up to 40 degrees into the water sieve, more so if your sand is cooler than that.

Why would you input anything under 40C? We're talking about cooling, not heating.

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1 hour ago, goboking said:

You can flush heat into plants and burn it in hydrogen generators.

Yup.  Dont sieve PW.  Send 80C PW too peppers

6 minutes ago, Nightinggale said:

It would result in a must have mod, which sets the fixed low end to 0 K, but it would be silly to have a game, which is unplayable without using mods, particularly because it was fully playable without mods yesterday.

Sieve -10C PW and then the water freezes...that wont work.

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1 minute ago, chemie said:

Sieve -10C PW and then the water freezes...that wont work.

You have the choice between never creating heat out of nothing or set the minimum temperature to 1 C, protect the pipes, but risk creating heat. Which value is "correct" is debatable forever.

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2 hours ago, Gurgel said:

I see the nerved WWs, the nerved Ice Maker and the ATENs. Anything else requires you to heat something up and dispose of it somewhere. That assumes you have something you can heat up ans somewhere you can dispose of it.

Seems to me they are massively overdoing this. 

Your duplicants can blow for the cooling. That would look funny, I think :D The Job description: "The Blow-Job" Blow everything to every time. Blow in groups for higher efficiency.

SCNR

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22 minutes ago, situpc said:

Unsurprisingly, all the players that don't mind the sieve minimum output temp change are also the ones that only play seeds with slush geysers ^

It`s funny ho the minimum temperature is suddenly a problem when there is no top cap. When it was a fixed temperature everybody was fine with it being 40oC. Now it`s suddenly "unrealistic". I mean it wouldn`t hurt if it was 5oC but does it really matter?

The true problem is not the minimum but it no longer resetting hot water to 40. We got enough tools to handle 40, especially when we got colder polluted water. The challenge begins when we get hot pwater. It is possible to handle it.

But i`m biased. I hated the fixed output and downright refused to abuse it (right along with infinite storage). I expected people would be mad. Too many designs broken. Seems like a terrible moment to change it too. But after thinking about it it`s actually the best moment. The game changed so much that we need to design stuff from scratch. Perfect time to force people away from relying on fixed outputs.

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