AntiBlueQuirk

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About AntiBlueQuirk

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  1. AFAIK, that's fixed now. But I haven't played since the release, so I haven't tested it. There may be some difference between the new and old map formats, but I don't think it's anything major. It's just a difference in content. The only difference I know of is that the DLC map has some extra data to separate the map into submaps. It was possible at one point to load base game maps into the DLC, but I think there were compatibility problems. (And you didn't get any other asteroids anyway.) Sounds like at some point they plan to merge the DLC into the main game, so there's that. I don't think there's any sandbox tools for editing the "system map", and normally asteroids are only created at world gen, but someone could probably fix that with a mod, including "importing" asteroids. So "Possible now?" Not really. "Possible ever?" Probably. (Not volunteering, btw.) Yeah, they already add new submaps at runtime. That's where the rockets get their space. It would be really easy for a mod to allocate their own new submaps. Basically you'd just have to make a space-station POI template, then add some "space station" module you could deploy on the system map. You could even make it expandable if you wanted by placing/removing inter-map doors and pipe connections during play. Called it.
  2. Oh no! I didn't know it would show up in previews. It's in a spoiler in the post itself. If it makes you feel any better, don't think of it as the asteroids actually being on the same map. It's basically just a convenient way to lay out the multiple maps in memory. Once they get all the bugs sorted out, there won't be anyway to tell the difference.
  3. Today I learned that in the Sandbox mode, there's a new tool: the Radiation tool! Overall, it's not that interesting, since it seems like radiation isn't simulated yet. However, the tool lets you access the otherwise inaccessible radiation overlay, and I learned something neat:
  4. I've said my piece. I'd rather talk about the cool science to be done with the new maps.
  5. You still have to synchronize the simulation with the rest of the game. The rest of the game logic can't proceed until all needed tiles have been simulated, multi-threaded or not. Likewise, pathfinding is more difficult to multi-thread, because dupes make decisions based on pathfinding, as well as pathfind based on game state. So they depend on each other. There would have to be lots of synchronization there. I agree that there's potential there, but again, it's something only Klei knows the implementation cost of, and the performance gains might not even be worth the cost. It *could* be that the major bottleneck for the simulation is memory bandwidth, and having multiple threads won't help that much. This is discussed a few times in Factorio's Fridays Facts, where they parallelized something, but hit a memory bottleneck instead. Simulating tile physics in parallel for different worlds is probably possible. It may or may not actually improve performance. It would have an implementation cost (developer time). I'm all for optimizing the game, but sometimes optimizations don't pan out the way one predicts. I'm sure they are actually working on optimizations. Some of the patch notes mention it, and the fact the game limits simulation to discovered worlds is evidence of it. But the potential gain of multithreading may not be worth the development cost when they have other stuff to work on. (And optimize!)
  6. When I was talking about single-grid vs multi-grid, I was still assuming a single-thread scenario. Without considering multithreading, I speculate that single-grid solution in the game was still *way* easier to implement. Even in single-threaded code, splitting the tile-grid into multiple separate grids would be a *lot* of work. But a multi-grid world isn't even necessary to implement multithreading. If you treat each world as unable to interact with tiles outside of it, then it should be possible to update each region of the grid on a separate thread. I think. I'm not Klei, so I can only speculate. Multithreading has setup and synchronization costs. The only way to tell if it's worth it is to implement it, and that's less time for Klei to work on other features. (Like adorable Plug Slugs.) Thread-locals wouldn't be useful for things like critters because critters aren't attached to threads. A critter needs to know what world it's in, regardless of what thread is working on it. Right now it knows that based on position alone.
  7. Yeah, normally there's only 6 asteroids, but I'm sure that will be easy to mod, and some people will want a lot of them. The number and set of asteroids you get is determined at world gen. I'm just speculating about modding possibilities with that line.
  8. I was so excited when I noticed the carpet tiles on my home asteroid, because I still don't have any reed fiber for atmo suits. But nope. Only sandstone. And tears...
  9. You can't edit the borders of the map, even in sandbox mode. Most tools just don't extend outside the build area. The fill tool does, but it's much hard to control since there's so much neutronium, and it's probably a bug. So if you remove the neutronium between adjacent worlds, you can get gasses and liquids to flow between them. But the border tiles count as space tiles, so any gasses or liquids are going to quickly evaporate. And you can't build on the borders in any case, so there's no good way to control it. If you make the border tiles solid non-neutronium, they can transfer heat. As far I can tell, the map is still one big simulation. One optimization is that the game only simulates tile physics inside the bounds of discovered worlds, but that only helps up until you've discovered everything. The world borders don't seem to affect the simulation at all, except that they're made of neutronium. The pathfinder definitely doesn't seem to care about world boundaries, but this is only relevant for flying things. Nothing else could ever path over a world border anyway. (I expect flying creatures will probably get a world border check in an upcoming patch, since it also affects jet-suits.) The parallel simulation thing is interesting. Right now worlds can interact with each other through tile physics, but there's no reason they need to. So simulating each world in parallel could work in theory. But since tile simulation happens in native code, only Klei could tell how practical it is to do that, or even if it's worth it. As others have noted, a lot of late game slowdown comes from all the stuff in the world, not the number of tiles. Pathfinding could be parallelized, even with a single world, since critters can't affect each other's paths. But dupes decide what to do based on pathfinding, and that can affect other dupes, so that could be a problem. Even then, sometimes multithreading just doesn't actually help that much. See Factorio Friday Facts #215. It's one of those things only Klei can really do, and it might not be worth the development cost. Deciding which parts of the map get simulated happens in managed code however, so people could write mods to change when and where "off-world" simulation happens. Right now, once you've "discovered" a world, it starts getting simulated, and there's no way to "undiscover" a world. A mod however, could let you freeze worlds without any dupes in them. That's pretty exploitable, but might be necessary when people decide "I want to play with 20 asteroids!" Which is definitely going to happen, I'm sure.
  10. No, as far I can tell, stuff under fog isn't frozen. Maybe that's how it used to work? But I don't think so. I've been watching critters wander in and out of fog for a long time. It's definitely not how it works in the alpha version. I did figure out that the entities on a world also aren't generated until you discover it. If you teleport a dupe to a undiscovered world, you'll notice it is suspiciously barren. Even POIs aren't generated. But as soon as you "discover" it, everything pops in. (The debug Backspace key triggers this, since it makes all worlds temporarily discovered.) Also note that revealing terrain on a world with a teleported dupe does *not* "discover" it. That's an artifact of the biome rendering with my modified version of the game. I had to modify the game to get the full navigation grid to show, but before I figured out the "Cluster FX" (which is what hides other worlds) hotkey, I disabled it in a different way. That way allows you to see past the bottom of the map. I think it's just the game trying to render the closest biome. It doesn't mean anything. (Just to be clear, there are no tiles down there, not even vacuum.) No, it just flies into "void" space. What I call the void is just a tile that hasn't been assigned to a world. It acts a little weird, because objects figure out what world they're in by their position. If they're in a void, (i.e., not in any defined world), then they're not in any world at all. Some things, like shine bugs, don't care about what world they're in, so they just go on their merry way. (Which is good, because otherwise the game would crash every time a bug wandered into the void.) Dupes on the other hand really don't like being the void. They disappear, and causes extreme lag due to trying to check if their current world is in a red alert state. This check assumes that they're in a world, but since they're not, it throws an exception every frame. Also, any dupe list screen that is sorted by world, like the Vitals screen, gets really glitched out, because it can't figure out what world they're in. Even though the tile grid is split up into worlds, the grid is only so big. That's why the navigation still ends at the top of the map. There's literally no tiles up there for them to move to, not even vacuum. That's why this wasn't an issue in earlier versions. Flying creatures couldn't go off the top of the map, because there were no tiles above the map for them to go to. (Despite what it might look like.) Now, on the other hand, there can be empty tiles above a world that are not part of any world, but still reachable because they exist. As for why they can fly between worlds, it's because there's not actually any rule that says a flying creature can't fly to a tile in a different world. There's a box/border of neutronium around each world, but the top edge is completely clear, including the corners. This makes a small gap creatures can fly through. Dupes can fly between worlds too, but they can't fit through the one tile high gap. What's the diagonal line? No idea. I assume it's some artifact of the flying creature pathfinder. The bottom left of the map is (0,0), so I think some part of the pathfinder is saying "you can fly straight from your current position to (0,0)". Or maybe it's a bug in rendering. Maybe I caused it with my modifications. I'm not sure, but I don't think it's significant.
  11. If you mean doors like the existing exterior rocket doors... I don't see any reason why you couldn't make a mod that reused that functionality. As far as I can tell, they're just pathfinding portals, so you could create a new building that made a pathfinding portal. I imagine someone will create a "stargate" mod at somepoint that lets duplicants just walk from one asteroid to another. What I'd like to see on rockets is the ability to add more than one interior module. You could automatically add a door and pipe hookups (like warp pipes) between modules that are stacked on top of each other. They would still be separate maps, but it would still work. I think adding something like that would be pretty easy, since you'd just be repurposing code that's already in the game. You could even theoretically add some sort of buildable space station system this way, but that would be a lot more work.
  12. Good news! I just figured out that the game does not simulate worlds you haven't discovered yet. There was some anecdotal evidence of this floating around already, but I just figured out a way to confirm it. I teleported Burt to a world I haven't discovered yet (sorry Burt), and the grid is frozen! Critters and stuff can still move around, but otherwise physics is stuck. Burt is safer than he looks. The magma doesn't even exchange heat with him! Though he very quickly depletes the oxygen in those tiles above his head, since new oxygen can't move in. How this seems to work is that the game can limit what parts of the grid it simulates, and normally, it only simulates the regions for worlds you have discovered. (This means that you have found them on the starmap, and they show up in your world list.) So until you reveal a given world, its physics is frozen. (Though again, critters can still move around and stuff.) It seems to be a bit unreliable though. Two of the "undiscovered" worlds I teleported to were frozen, but a third was not. More science required. Edit: learned something. If you have the fog of war cheated clear with the debug Backspace key, all worlds are treated as discovered. The debug screen blocks the world switcher, but you can switch to any world with Backquote+<number> (Tilde+<number>). This also unfreezes all worlds as long as you have the Backspace menu. That one world is still unfrozen even though I haven't discovered it though. (In an amusing coincidence, the unfrozen world is my cold/frozen asteroid.)
  13. If you're worried about performance right now, I wouldn't let flying critters into space. There's a *lot* of tiles they can reach. They can't path above the highest point on the tallest map, but there's a ton of void space for them to get lost in. See that little yellow dot? That's a shine bug. He can basically path wherever he wants in that empty space, which I'm sure is terrible for performance. Edit: here's a navigation grid for a puft in space. Yeah, definitely don't let these guys loose on the surface. Not to mention, if they wander into the void, there's no way to get them back unless they come back on their own. I think the starter asteroid is safe, since I think the walls go up high enough, but I'm not sure why, so be careful.
  14. Yep! That bug I linked in the OP is your bug! I was investigating. You can see the gaps between the world walls that let them through.
  15. I don't think so. There's some code in the game that theoretically allows the world to be resized to be taller. Even then you should be able to build 25-30 rocket interiors before that would even be necessary. Probably more, actually, if it reuses space above the shorter worlds. (Which I think it can.) Edit: Oh, actually it looks like there's a hard limit of 16. That can definitely be raised with modding pretty easily, it's just a single constant in the code, and I don't think anything else limits it. It basically just looks like a "keep the player from shooting themselves in the foot" check. Honestly, I think the modding community is going to go nuts with these new features.