Should Immune Systems be less powerful?

[Zarquan]

20 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

while I do agree with you, this isn't easy to new players

If the dupes don't sweep the slime as they dig it they will off-gas germs into the air, also algae can contain germs and will also get into the air when used in terrariums or diffusers

while any of this can be easily avoided by experienced players, new players can wipe their colonies

New players can wipe out their colonies with germs anyway.  But the thing is that this supposedly important and dangerous mechanic is almost completely harmless to advanced players who use a couple simple tricks and strategies that circumvent the entire mechanic.  I feel these simple tricks should be negated and advanced players should actually have to deal with germs. 

For me, all I need is to put sinks outside of the bathroom, create a self-sustaining bathroom loop, put the water sieve in a chlorine area, and switch to electrolyzers before I go in to the slime biome.  And my immunity never has to fall below 100% on anyone unless I make a mistake.

An example of something which should have consequences is cleaning an outhouse and leaving the polluted dirt on the ground.  That makes no sense and should have rather severe immune consequences if left around for too long.  That and germy water in sinks.

I also believe that we should be able to bar things like algae from being taken out of an area, like a slime biome, to stop dupes from infecting the base until we can sort out the germs on the algae.

[lee1026]

Forget things like sweeping slime, with how OP exosuits are, you only need a quick dash into the slime biome to secure some reed fiber before you can simply use exosuits for everything other than sleeping.

[chemie]

20 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

New players can wipe out their colonies with germs anyway.  But the thing is that this supposedly important and dangerous mechanic is almost completely harmless to advanced players who use a couple simple tricks and strategies that circumvent the entire mechanic.  I feel these simple tricks should be negated and advanced players should actually have to deal with germs. 

For me, all I need is to put sinks outside of the bathroom, create a self-sustaining bathroom loop, put the water sieve in a chlorine area, and switch to electrolyzers before I go in to the slime biome.  And my immunity never has to fall below 100% on anyone unless I make a mistake.

you are doing way more than me.  I use slime algae all the time in diffusers and terrariums.  just have no PO in your base.  I just cycle sieve water back without any heat or chlorine.  and run around slime biome naked with air purifiers

[Zarquan]

Just now, chemie said:

you are doing way more than me.  I use slime algae all the time.  just have no PO in your base.  I just cycle sieve water back without any heat or chlorine.  and run around slime biome naked with air purifiers

My goal is no exposure.  And I don't usually need too many air purifiers in the slime biome because I dig then from the bottom up (unless I mess up).  Slime doesn't release PO2 when it is falling and if it falls in water (>2 kg), it's all good. 

[Lilalaunekuh]

2 hours ago, Neotuck said:

I agree with @Soulwind Immunity only seems OP when you play the game on easy settings.  I would rather see new diseases added to the game than nerf the current immunity 

If I want germs to be a challenge, I go for no immunity regen.

But I see no point in making the diseases "deadlier" besides tuning the "natural"(/on normal or survival settings) immunity regeneration.

=> If there should be something new, make it a disease with different infection vectors. (Maybe zoonosis or dermal intake ...)

[chemie]

12 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

(Maybe zoonosis...

This is my new word for the day.  I knew the vector is very real, but did not know this word

[Caelifera]

Other than expanding the range of diseases, which I suspect won't happen until post-launch, the major change I'd like to see is to how difficulty affects immunity. Simply put, I'm not a fan of the solution being modified duplicant resistance (which makes the bad-with-germs dupes not worth taking until you can pop vitamins like candy) and would rather see difficulty affect the strength and decay of the germs themselves. 

When I think of how I'd like the challenge of dealing with germs in a colony to be, I'd rather feel oppressed by the sense that I'm not disinfecting as fast as I can infect, where I have to worry about a growing problem I can't control and can't simply blitz it all on day 1. So, for example, a nerf-per-difficulty of how fast slimelung decays in oxygen, or on surfaces. Or actually having a use for sanitisers other than "can I be bothered running water/pwater to/from a basin/sink" because washing your hands in a kitchen from hell isn't quite sufficient to solve the problem. Most of the interesting challenges I've had in ONI can, in some abstract way, be boiled down to production not meeting supply, and I think that challenge can be applied to cleanliness in a more interesting way that considers the needs of newbies and veterans alike.

As far as disease expansion, I think a quirky addition would be a common cold analogue that has slightly randomised and mutating ideal conditions. Mostly harmless, but incapable of being eradicated eternally.

[Soulwind]

For fp, I feed my toilet water to a small bank of reeds.  Takes care of it and makes the large quantity of fibers easier to get.

I would like to have a setting that would give a very small immunity recovery,  say 1%, so dupes don't all have to live like the bubble boy.

But vitamin chews are easy enough too.

[Xuhybrid]

The game needs more than 2 germs and they need to be able to stack.

[ChickenMadness]

18 hours ago, 0xFADE said:

Yeah,  that is why I brought it up. The heat is bleeding out now but it hasn’t been a massive problem yet.

It is all building up slowly.  If I don’t put in some cooling soon it will get way out of hand. Just another step to deal with. 

Having a strip of water running through the base like this is really good for temperature regulation. I usually run all piping, conveyor rails, whatever through these.

It's a one size fits all approach since I usually send everything through it. You just make sure the body of water stays around the same temperature.

17 hours ago, chemie said:

you are doing way more than me.  I use slime algae all the time in diffusers and terrariums.  just have no PO in your base.  I just cycle sieve water back without any heat or chlorine.  and run around slime biome naked with air purifiers

Well there is a time limit on how long you can do that for when playing with miserable immunity. You'll have to feed the duplicants vitamin chews at some point.

9 hours ago, nakomaru said:

I use them for sleeping too. Deleted my bathrooms entirely because if you force them in them all day they don't ever need to pee again.

Exosuits should have piss and poop bags that you have to empty lol. They're too over powered.

[Junksteel]

I have to disagree with people defending diseases are too easy to deal with.

This game is all about patterns and once you learn an effective pattern to deal with a specific problem it is no longer a problem. The difficulty can't be restored because it's attached to your learning curve.

It can be said about almost every single mechanic in this game.

I still consider myself a noob and struggled a lot with slimelung 2 months ago. Now it's absolutely trivial. 

On the other hand, adding more diseases is a good thing (instead of buffing the current ones), doctor job and (hopefully) radiation.


 

[Neotuck]

5 minutes ago, Junksteel said:

I have to disagree with people defending diseases are too easy to deal with.

This game is all about patterns and once you learn an effective pattern to deal with a specific problem it is no longer a problem. The difficulty can't be restored because it's attached to your learning curve.

It can be said about almost every single mechanic in this game.

I still consider myself a noob and struggled a lot with slimelung 2 months ago. Now it's absolutely trivial. 

On the other hand, adding more diseases is a good thing (instead of buffing the current ones), doctor job and (hopefully) radiation.
 

Ideally yes, but the game isn't finished yet and there is still plenty to balance out

That's what we are discussing here, if the diseases need more balancing

[Junksteel]

23 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

Ideally yes, but the game isn't finished yet and there is still plenty to balance out

That's what we are discussing here, if the diseases need more balancing

I agree. Just dropped my thoughts on the theme from a noob perspective. Diseases are scary for people playing first time. I discovered ONI when I was paying a visit to a friend. He was all terrified about slimelung while showing me the game.

It's rather funny to remember now the first lessons he taught me:
"Don't hire more than 4 dupes", "Throw away all the water you get from bathrooms", "Don't build this before day 100 (carbon skimmer), it will suck all your water" and "Never dig these green blocks, your base will be infected forever" lol

[Neotuck]

1 minute ago, Junksteel said:

It's rather funny to remember now the first lessons he taught me:
"Don't hire more than 4 dupes", "Throw away all the water you get from bathrooms", "Don't build this before day 100 (carbon skimmer), it will suck all your water" and "Never dig these green blocks, your base will be infected forever" lol

wow, and he thought he was experienced enough to give lessons? 

you should convince him to start his own Youtube channel, it would be funny as hell

[heckubis]

21 hours ago, Neotuck said:

If you notice in the picture I posted above I have a few wheezeworts spread around.  The pipes are all made out of igneous rock and that works enough for 40C water

what are the farm tiles for?

oh used to be the mushroom farm under my kitchen till i converted over to chorine. just didnt remove some of the old farm tiles. had the chorine chambers for the water tanks set up for a while first.

[Junksteel]

25 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

wow, and he thought he was experienced enough to give lessons? 

you should convince him to start his own Youtube channel, it would be funny as hell

It would be awesome indeed! Unfortunately, he lives in a mountain hill miles away from any form of civilization. As he doesn't have regular internet access in his private paradise he always comes up with the craziest ideas that wouldn't exist in his mind if he could easily do a 5 min research.

[Neotuck]

1 minute ago, Junksteel said:

It would be awesome indeed! Unfortunately, he lives in a mountain hill miles away from any form of civilization. As he doesn't have regular internet access in his private paradise he always comes up with the craziest ideas that wouldn't exist in his mind if he could easily do a 5 min research.

so he's a stereotypical " Crazy Hermit Guru " ?

 

[Junksteel]

10 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

so he's a stereotypical " Crazy Hermit Guru " ?

 

Precisely!!!

[0xFADE]

Everyone is at a different level of understanding. I remember in some thread or video some guy had a base falling apart in the several hundred cycle range that was still using algae and outhouses. 

[Neotuck]

5 minutes ago, 0xFADE said:

Everyone is at a different level of understanding. I remember in some thread or video some guy had a base falling apart in the several hundred cycle range that was still using algae and outhouses. 

It really depends on play style and if your play style is successful or not

For example I also use outhouses and algae even after hundreds of cycles.  I usually wait for some plastic so I can set up a simple septic system to recycle water from my bathrooms before I build my first lavatory.  And my terrarium setup works so well I don't bother building an electrolyzer until I need hydrogen for my first hydrogen rocket

[heckubis]

yah my current play through i didnt start washrooms and showers or spoms till after cycle 200. still have most of the starting water in a pacu tank under my printer. was dumping polluted o2 into a room with pufts from about 30 cycles tho. same room as my distillers and compost. had plenty of algae and i spam filters in swamp biomes and dont drain the water.

[0xFADE]

Guess it is more common than I thought. I try and put in plumbing around when I find a geyser since you get more water out of the toilets than they take.  They also don’t need a dupe to spend a lot of time with a plunger.

Once I get some electrolyzers going I power most of the base off the excess energy for awhile. 

[chemie]

1 hour ago, 0xFADE said:

Guess it is more common than I thought. I try and put in plumbing around when I find a geyser since you get more water out of the toilets than they take.  They also don’t need a dupe to spend a lot of time with a plunger.

Once I get some electrolyzers going I power most of the base off the excess energy for awhile. 

plus showers give a great morale boost

[suicide commando]

I think the strength of the current diseases is fine as they are now, as immune system is a difficulty tweak in the menu's anyway.

What I'd really like to see is more diseases and that dupe can have more than one disease at a time, so slime lung doesn't get cancelled by hypothermia and such.

Radiation and all the lovely things that go with it, would be great ( maybe we can have Marie REALLY shine ), maybe a disease that comes from outer space would be fun too.

 

[Sasza22]

I`d like if diseases were more dynamic. What i mean is dupes getting sick faster but fighting the germs faster and recovering immunity faster. As for now i just hate when a dupe gets infected and there is nothing i can do to make him recover immunity before he gets sick after one or two cycles. Also small amounts of germs can`t be even noticed as before a dup[e gets 15k germs in their system their immunity stays at 100%.